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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Modders Workshop > Thread: [subMOD H5.5] No upgrades
Thread: [subMOD H5.5] No upgrades
bigjocker
bigjocker


Promising
Supreme Hero
Forgotten but not Forsaken
posted March 22, 2018 09:13 AM bonus applied by Galaad on 30 Mar 2018.
Edited by bigjocker at 06:09, 09 Apr 2018.

[subMOD H5.5] No upgrades

Hello everyone.

This MOD disables upgrades of the creatures. Instead, you can buy only one version of the creature, I call it Ultimate Version. These ultimate versions have their stats drastically changed. You also can not buy upgraded dwellings in towns. It's more like H4 style, but without need to choose between creatures. Over versions of the creatures are now neutral units and you won't find them in towns or dwellings. Neutral creature stats were also changed. ALL creatures now also give more exp for killing them. List of creatures in towns (first goes name and when the creature used as an ultimate version):

The list is in THIS file to save some space.

"Same Model" means that the creature used as an ultimate version is the same as the name.

SPREADSHEET WITH FULL STATS


I didn't make full change log and it's still early version. Just try it.
MMH5.5 version 5.60 beta4 (RC9?) was used as a base so I don't know if this will work on older , newer or original TOE version of the game. If anyone can test it please do so.

DOWNLOAD v0.7

To use it just put "NUM0.7.pak" into your Data folder of the game.
To update from older version just replace older .pak file with newer verison .pak file. (DON'T KEEP THEM BOTH!)

Known bugs:
-Neutral versions of creatures sometimea appear in the starting army, especialy for creature specialized heroes. It's somehow hardcoded, so I can not change it.
-Some spec ability animations of creatures may look strange, because some creatures have two active abilities, but only one animation for them both.

--------------------ChangeLog----------------------------------------
Version 0.4.5
-First version released

Version 0.5
-Strike of Hatred now works as intended.
-Hexing attack now casts Slow , Weakness or Frenzy, but not at a 100% chance.
-Dwellings on maps now have their names and descriptions shown correctly.
-Archers lost double shot ability.

Version 0.6
-Black dragons have their specability animation fixed
-Untamed Cyclops now have no melee penalty correctly
-Emeral Dragon now has Fire Breath instead of Acid Breath (H5.5 changed original Acid Breath)

Version 0.7
-Balance changes:
Pikeman: -2att,-1def,-2hp
Archer: -1att, -2maxdmg, -12shots, -1spd
Crusader: +2def, +2mindmg, +1maxdmg, +4hp
Imperial Griffin: +1att
Zealot: +2def, +4mindmg, +4maxdmg, +5mana, -1spd
Champion: -1spd, -5maxdmg, no "no enemy retaliation"
Archangel: -4att, -5maxdmg, -2spd
Master Gremlin: +1att, +1def, +1maxdmg, -1spd
Obsidian Gargoyle: +1def, +1mindmg, +1maxdmg
Gold Golem: -1spd
Archmage: +3mindmg, +1maxdmg, +5hp, -1spd, -12shots
Genie: -1spd
Rakshasa: -2att, -5maxdmg, -20hp
Titan: +5mindmg, Call Lightning +10dmg
Assassin: -1att, -1mindmg, -2maxdmg, -1spd, -5hp
Blood Fury: -1mindmg, -2maxdmg, -1spd, -4hp
Minotaur King: -2att, -1maxdmg, -10hp
Dark Raider: -2maxdmg, -1spd, -10hp
Chaos Hydra: +1att, +1def, +5hp, Renegeration increased to 40-70
Shadow Mistress: +5att, +5mindmg, +5maxdmg, +1init, -1spd, +1shot
Black Dragon: -2att, -2def, -5mindmg, -5maxdmg, -1ini, -1spd, -10hp
Imp: +1att
Demon: +1def, +3hp, Explosion +7dmg, Leap deals double damage and 50% increased retaliation
Cerberus: -1att, -1mindmg, -1maxdmg, -1spd
Succubuss: +1att
Nightmare: -2att, -2def, -1maxdmg, -1spd, -6hp, Searing Aura -4dmg
Pit Lord: -2att, -30hp
Arch Devil: +1def, -11hp
Skeleton Archer: -1spd
Zombie: +2def, +2maxdmg
Spectre: +2hp, Incorporeal miss chance is 50% again
Vampire Lord: -2att, -2def, -1mindmg, -3maxdmg, -1spd, -5hp
Archlich: -2att, +2def, -3mindmg, -3maxdmg, -5hp
Wraith: +2def, -1spd
Spectral Dragon: -3att, +3mindmg, -1spd, -20hp, No "Deadly Strike"
Sprite: -1mindmg, -1spd, -1hp, -4mana, no "Cleansing" spell
Blade Dancer: -1att, -1def, -1mindmg, -1maxdmg, -1spd, -2hp
Master Hunter: -3att, -4mindmg, -4maxdmg, +3hp, -12shots
Druid Elder: -1spd
Silver Unicorn: -2def, -4maxdmg
Ancient Treant: -5def, -1mindmg, -2maxdmg, -1spd, -1init
Emerald Dragon: +7def, +5mindmg, +5maxdmg, -1spd, +10hp, Renegeration increased to 40-70
Shieldguard: -1def, -1mindmg
Harpooner: +1att, +1mindmg
Blackbear Rider: +1maxdmg, +3hp
Berserker: -2att, -2def, -1mindmg, -2maxdmg, -2hp
Rune Keeper: none
Thane: +4att, +1mindmg, +1maxdmg, -1spd, -5hp
Magma Dragon: -5def, -10hp
Goblin: +2def, +1maxdmg
Centaur: -2att, -1maxdmg
Warmonger: +4def, +5hp
Shaman: +3def, +5hp
Chieftain: +2att, +2mindmg, +2maxdmg, -1spd, +5hp
Foul Wyvern: +2def, Venom +6dmg, Renegeration increased to 40-70
Untamed Cyclops: +2att, +4def, +3maxdmg, no "Range Penalty"
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Alone in the Forest
posted March 23, 2018 12:09 AM

That is kind of interesting. What was your goal though? Gameplay similar to h4? Faster creeping? Increased utility creatures?

From the little I checked, early tiers seemed mostly unchanged while units like wights had both harm touch and banshee wail. Also bone dragons had death strike?

I've occasionally thought that I'd like some units to be a mix between the two upgrades. Like elven dancers with war dance and agility. Gremlins with repair and sabotage. Probably a little overkill but it'd be fun if the tier system was redesigned with that in mind. Ofc that would be harder to pull off in a version like yours, with basic units getting those from the start.

Will probably check more on what you've changed tomorrow.
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bigjocker
bigjocker


Promising
Supreme Hero
Forgotten but not Forsaken
posted March 23, 2018 11:43 AM

This is FUN project. H5.5 refreshed the game, but I wanted more changes, I wanted to make it more different, interesting and fun. I made it mostly for myself just to be interested in playing H5 again, but shared it with everyone who wants to try something absolutely new and fun.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Alone in the Forest
posted March 24, 2018 09:03 PM

Seems I was mistaken with bone dragons, it is their upgrade that was stacked with abilities.

I think you could spice up some units a little more. Blade dancers have no abilities at all for instance. Ghosts are fine with just incorporeal as that is their trademark but other units lack a defining characteristic.

T7 also seem a little plain. Most seem to have a meatshield role.
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bigjocker
bigjocker


Promising
Supreme Hero
Forgotten but not Forsaken
posted March 24, 2018 10:17 PM
Edited by bigjocker at 22:26, 24 Mar 2018.

I possibly didn't explain the mod correctly so you misunderstood it. I didn't use unupgraded creatures as my ultimate versions, I used the models I liked the most or the ones which suited best. Check my first post, it was updated with the list. You should try this mod out, not just check the files. As an example of Haven, lvl1 creature you get is Pikeman, which is based on Conscript (upgrade in original H5), while lvl2 ultimate creature is Archer, which is based on the same Archer (unupgraded version in orgininal H5).

EDIT:
New version released with some fixes. Download link is in the first post.
Also creature list is posted and you can download full spreadsheet with stats (check first post).
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Alone in the Forest
posted March 25, 2018 12:15 PM

Ooh now I get it. Love it, has good potential for combat-focused maps as well. Instead of picking a unit it's up to you what ability to use in combat. No doubt some are broken but this has gotta be fun.
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bigjocker
bigjocker


Promising
Supreme Hero
Forgotten but not Forsaken
posted March 25, 2018 01:30 PM

Elvin said:
Ooh now I get it. Love it, has good potential for combat-focused maps as well. Instead of picking a unit it's up to you what ability to use in combat. No doubt some are broken but this has gotta be fun.

Yes, now you get the whole point. This project breaks the purpose of H5.5 , but it is made for fun. I will tweak it even more little by little, but the base is done and it seems to work quite well.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Alone in the Forest
posted March 25, 2018 06:14 PM
Edited by Elvin at 18:15, 25 Mar 2018.

Some feedback in the meantime. I lack a pc so that's just from the descriptions:


Archers do not need piercing bolt and they would work better with 3-7 dmg compared to 2-8. I am aware of the priest bless combo but still.

I'd use imperial griffin stats as a base and tweak init/hp from there because 1) battle dive requires initiative to be of use 2) battle frenzy requires hp. Probably 13 init / 45hp to cover both gameplay styles.

Champions with no enemy retaliation is plain hardcore

Aren't gremlins a little slow? Though it makes sense with sabotage being so useful.

Rakshasas with no retaliation and whirlwind attack are terrifying enough, unlimited retaliation adds insult to injury.

I kind of like titans as mechanical but then you'd lose motw + resurrection combo. Unless your gremlins got more repair uses? On that note, gargoyles with mechanical, elemental immunity AND vulnerability aura can be a real pain. They are hard to kill, they boost destructive a lot and repair can bring plenty of them back.

Minos probably don't need no retaliation.

Imp mana steal + syphon mana can drain might heroes dry ridiculously fast. Unless they've been tweaked.

Pit lords could probably use some less speed. Too easy to use vorpal blade with 7 speed.

Devils with evil eye + no enemy retaliation must be a joy to play. Also op as hell ^^

Specters probably do not need mana destroyer. Necro can be a pain in the @ss, without training your mana too.

Spectral dragons probably don't need deadly attack.

Emeralds look pretty deadly too. I am curious if acid death and prismatic breath can hit the same units twice.

Harpooners with snare, love it.

Regarding bash on berserkers and crusaders, I'm thinking that a bash nerf is probably in order. Maybe a factor of 1-1.2?

Centaurs would probably be better off with fierce retaliation. It turns their ranged retaliation to full and their melee retaliation is also doubled, effectively making it no melee penalty. Otherwise, they won't be retaliating with no melee penalty unless they are trapped.

Warmongers are probably too op with bulletproof. Their abilities make it easy to accumulate rage and most units are hesitant to attack them in melee as it is.

Shamans would probably be better off with higher init. Otherwise they won't be using swift attack effectively.

Cyclopes also work wonderfully with no range penalty if they already have 50% range penalty. That way they can be competent shooters if need be.

I like the little references to early heroes, as well as recent ones.



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bigjocker
bigjocker


Promising
Supreme Hero
Forgotten but not Forsaken
posted March 26, 2018 06:33 AM

Thank you for your notices. You see, I used some stats and abilities not just from three versions of the creatures but also from other HoMM versions. Thats why some creatures received bonus abilities and that's why they are called Ultimate Version.
I need to do some more real tests before changing something. And after all, it's just for fun. Ofcourse I don't want one creature to be twice as powerful as the other of the same tier, but I still want to make a feeling that your creatures are OP
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Alone in the Forest
posted March 26, 2018 07:00 AM

Meanwhile I took a look at the H3 stats to compare basic angels and devils that were more or less balanced with each other. Unlike archangels and archdevils ^^

Devils had 160 hp, 30-40dmg and 11 speed vs the angel's 200hp, 45 dmg and 12 speed. Basically 28.6% less average damage, 25% less hp and 1 less initiative. Only downside, that would make devils more susceptible to destructive. When I have my pc fixed I'll see for myself but that looks about right
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bigjocker
bigjocker


Promising
Supreme Hero
Forgotten but not Forsaken
posted March 26, 2018 10:03 AM
Edited by bigjocker at 21:37, 08 Apr 2018.

Elvin said:
Meanwhile I took a look at the H3 stats to compare basic angels and devils that were more or less balanced with each other. Unlike archangels and archdevils ^^

Devils had 160 hp, 30-40dmg and 11 speed vs the angel's 200hp, 45 dmg and 12 speed. Basically 28.6% less average damage, 25% less hp and 1 less initiative. Only downside, that would make devils more susceptible to destructive. When I have my pc fixed I'll see for myself but that looks about right


I used an upgraded versions of creatures as a base. In my mod you have:
Arch Devils 211hp, 36-66dmg, 20speed (OP)
Archangel 250hp, 50-75dmg, 10speed
Plus abilities ofcourse.

EDIT:
New minor version released 0.6. Check first post for info.

EDIT2:
New minor version released 0.7 (some balance changes). Check first post for info. Stats spreadsheet also updated with new changes.
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