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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Modders Workshop > Thread: [subMOD for MMH5.5] Tier 6.5
Thread: [subMOD for MMH5.5] Tier 6.5
thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted March 26, 2018 07:32 AM bonus applied by Galaad on 30 Mar 2018.
Edited by thGryphn at 07:44, 26 Mar 2018.

[subMOD for MMH5.5] Tier 6.5

I had circulated this idea some time ago, having Tier 6 upgrades significantly stronger than Tier 6 base units, in a way to somewhat reduce the huge gap between Tiers 6 and 7.

The last MMH5.5 version (RC10) introduced something that actually played to my hand here: Tier 6 upgrades (and only upgrades) now cost a rare resource.

What I did in this submod for MMH5.5 (should work fine with RC9 as well as RC10) is to do the following based on RC10 values:

1) Increase the HP of Tier 6 upgrades by 10%.

2) Increase the Attack and Defense of Tier 6 upgrades by 1.

3) Increase the experience and power ratings of Tier 6 upgrades by 10% (for proper in-game valuation).

4) Increase the gold cost of building Tier 6 upgrade structure by 20%, and require Town Level 15 (was 12).

5) Increase the gold cost of purchasing Tier upgrade units by 20%.

6) Apply the changes to Creaturepedia files so the info there matches.



I gave it a try and I like the result. Tier 6 base units are now significantly cheaper than their upgrades, and you don't feel as much urge to upgrade right away until later in the game. Once you can afford to upgrade your Tier 6 units, it's still not clear the choice between 50 base units and 30 upgraded ones. We only had this dynamic for Tier 7 units before and upgrading the others was a "duh". Now I feel like the economy aspect of the game is a tad more interesting.

As the game progresses, as in if you've been doing well, you naturally upgrade all your units, including your Tier 7s but at least you think about economy longer through a really long game (i.e., huge+ maps), and you play with your Tier 6 base units longer. Plus, once you upgrade them, they really feel like Tier 6.5


Give it a try and let me know what you think

Sub MOD for MMH5.5: Tier 6.5


EDIT: To be clear, this submod is really intended for version RC10 of MMH5.5, which any MMH5.5 player should get anyway...

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted March 26, 2018 08:57 AM

Makes sense in a long game where upgrading them takes time. Makes it all the more rewarding.

That said, t6 upgrades are already 1.5-2 times stronger than the previous tier so the tier balance will change. Personally, I'd rather tier strength(unit power per growth) was comparable - first three tiers with each other, next three tiers with each other and tier 7 a little stronger still.

With growth as a starting point (4/t4, 3/t5 and 2/t6), I'd like t6 to be twice as good as t4 and +50% better than t5. That would make them comparable with each other but one on one, the strength difference is clear. On average obviously, I liked the H3 tier asymmetry
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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted March 26, 2018 09:36 AM

Elvin said:
Makes sense in a long game where upgrading them takes time. Makes it all the more rewarding.

That said, t6 upgrades are already 1.5-2 times stronger than the previous tier so the tier balance will change. Personally, I'd rather tier strength(unit power per growth) was comparable - first three tiers with each other, next three tiers with each other and tier 7 a little stronger still.

With growth as a starting point (4/t4, 3/t5 and 2/t6), I'd like t6 to be twice as good as t4 and +50% better than t5. That would make them comparable with each other but one on one, the strength difference is clear. On average obviously, I liked the H3 tier asymmetry



I think the first 5 Tiers are fine as they are. I don't think straight mathematical equivalence makes sense like you described. You get access to smaller tiers much earlier and they grow much faster than the stats imply. Plus there is the thing of varying weekly growth for Tiers 1-5, while Tiers 6 and 7 is always 2 and 1, resp.

On second thought though, another way to implement the same idea presented here is by going in reverse direction, by making the base unit weaker, instead of making the upgrades stronger. The cost changes would remain, so upgrades would still cost 20% more to build and purchase... I think I'll try that approach as well. Along with that, I'm thinking about making Tier 7 base units a bit weaker HP-wise (and cheaper) as well. I'll put those in another version of this submod, still keeping this first iteration.




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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted March 26, 2018 12:02 PM
Edited by Elvin at 12:06, 26 Mar 2018.

My idea is not an early or even midgame concern but it could help lower or mid tiers remain relevant later on.

Making regular units a bit weaker is probably a safer approach. What I'd like though, is make some of the basic units better at creeping. There are some that you just hoard till you can afford an upgrade, like brawlers or blade dancers so they won't see any creeping action. I think a little boost would be ok, enough to warrant keeping them in your early team if you so want. For instance, H3 vampires were pretty crappy and you'd normally save them till you got vampire lords. H5 added a 50% life drain which made them immediately useful, even if not all that great. This approach works even better because the upgraded dwelling is costly and likely to be delayed. Hunters on the other hand would not need a stronger base creature since you depend on their upgrade for creeping.

Not terribly important but something that could enrich earlygame. Especially for might classes that can't rely on magic much.
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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted April 06, 2018 10:38 AM
Edited by magnomagus at 10:42, 06 Apr 2018.

this thread slipped past me,

Quote:
in a way to somewhat reduce the huge gap between Tiers 6 and 7.


??? there is no gap, 2x 6 ~ 1x 7, and because growth on t7 is harder to get, t6 often already ends up being the strongest stack a player has. (before these changes). Play the new duel mode to get a better feel about strength of tiers.

economy is mostly about total overall costs, not a single outlier, if it feels too easy the player mostly did not adjust downward enough.
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