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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: nuclear war scare?
Thread: nuclear war scare? This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · «PREV
fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
SCOURGE OF THE H-SEA
posted April 12, 2018 02:52 PM
Edited by fred79 at 15:03, 12 Apr 2018.

blob2 said:
I live near a power plant. I'm doomed either way...


lol, nobody's nuking a power plant, dude. at least, not before they nuke the capitol. me, i'm not far from d.c.  i'd be in danger far before you would ever be. dc will be the first hit, or the pentagon; if a war was actually on. power plants would be a secondary target.




(edited again)

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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted April 12, 2018 02:58 PM
Edited by blob2 at 14:59, 12 Apr 2018.

fred79 said:
blob2 said:
I live near a power plant. I'm doomed either way...


lol, nobody's nuking a power plant, dude. me, i'm not far from d.c.  i have something to worry about.


Well no, but a strategic target is a strategic target. Some bombs/missles are bound to be directed there in a war scenario.

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fred79
fred79


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SCOURGE OF THE H-SEA
posted April 12, 2018 02:59 PM
Edited by fred79 at 15:04, 12 Apr 2018.

sorry i took so long to clarify. it's edited. (x2, to be more accurate)

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Kipshasz
Kipshasz


Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
posted April 12, 2018 03:14 PM

@Fredmuffin: ISIS was armed by the administration lead by Killary and Barack Oganja,not Trumpster.
Trumpster moabed them into oblivion.
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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Undefeatable Hero
posted April 12, 2018 03:55 PM

fred79 said:
no, THAT'S nonsense. i don't think all the nations who had nukes would be so stupid to nuke each other, irregardless of the u.s. or russia's involvement in any dispute. to think so, makes me wonder if you need sleep, too.
You have again NO idea, what you are talking about. This is a field of vast study, because it - yes - it's been such a defining stratagem over the last 70 years and it has so much to do with game theory.

There are at least 3 countries with the capacity of "GLOBAL mutual destruction" - China, Russia and the US. Of course there are more participants - for example, India and Pakistan can certainly destroy each other, but whether one of them could REALLY endanger the US is another matter.

Now, the problem with mutual destruction is the fact that NO ONE WANTS IT. And here comes ESCALATION. USUALLY war works in a way that every action will lead to a MEASURED counter-action - but that works only if all participants are ABLE to (measured action). The situation in Europe was so that the NATO states would have had no chance whatsoever in a conventional war (that would have accepted that nuclear weapons would destroy too much).

Now, DETERRENCE was the counter to that: in short, it says, we REACT on everything WITH WHAT WE SEE FIT (saying: we will do WHATEVER it takes to stop you from invading the rest of Europe, mutual destruction or not.)

It is important to note that didn't stop one side to support "people's movements" all over the worls and the other to back the forces that were, especially in Africa and South America. It didn't stop the US in Vietnam and Korea - or Russia in the Ukraine and so on.

Because, the main thing is, that deterrence must be believable. You can't just go and say, if you attack the banana republic of Behindbackwaterstan we'll go and nuke your fleet in the Atlantic. That would be silly, because no one would believe you, except if you were a confirmed nutcase like Kim, who hasn't got the means, though, and seems to have cooled down.

In short: Deterrence means, YOU DRAW A BELIEVABLE LINE: Overstep this point and I'll escalate, risking mutual destruction.

It makes no sense to link this with low-profile targets, because you are committed if you do. Because, whether you are bluffing or not, if you drastically RAISE, YOU DON'T WANT TO BE CALLED. Should you BE called and then fold, you are done, obviously.

Which means, Trump - as with so many other things - didn't understand the principle. Putin called him, and sure enough, Trump backed off. He should just shut the hell up, instead of bragging around.

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fred79
fred79


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SCOURGE OF THE H-SEA
posted April 12, 2018 04:33 PM

Kipshasz said:
@Fredmuffin: ISIS was armed by the administration lead by Killary and Barack Oganja,not Trumpster.
Trumpster moabed them into oblivion.


bush jr started it all by taking out saddam, which created roving bands of ne'er-do-wells. those displaced opportunists were scattered around, and the next administration armed and furthered their growth due to syria.


@ jj: i saw a lot of caps in your post, and i don't really want to get into an argument about this(i'm in a good mood today, and i want to keep it that way). so, i won't be reading that post. i'm not going to read it regardless, because you were wrong in your initial reply. you can't start out from such a ridiculous premise, and expect to be taken seriously enough to have someone try to have a logical and rational discussion with you. it would devolve into a circular argument, which i don't want any more of. i had my fill of that bullsnow in the mass shooting thread, and i'll be damned if my blood pressure is going to go to snow because people can't figure simple things out and would rather argue, than admit they're wrong.

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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted April 12, 2018 04:54 PM

Call me naive, but recent events show that whenever a "dictator" was removed from his post, the country went into turmoil. I know people's rights were stepped on by those governments, but at the same time extremists and the like were kept in check.

Iran and Afghanistan are in constant turmoil. Libya just recently ended it's 'second' (yes second since 2011) civil war. Egypt after Arab Spring went from a top tourist destination to an unsafe country etc. So far only Tunisia seems to have stabilized.

There needs to be a better solution for this...

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted April 12, 2018 05:28 PM

fred79 said:
i'm not going to read it regardless, because you were wrong in your initial reply. you can't start out from such a ridiculous premise, and expect to be taken seriously enough to have someone try to have a logical and rational discussion with you.
Feels like 1984. Ignorance is Bliss. Don't let anyone deter you from that.

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fred79
fred79


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SCOURGE OF THE H-SEA
posted April 12, 2018 05:40 PM

blob2 said:
Call me naive


you're not, and there should be. it's disgraceful.



@ jj: what in the HELL are you on about? you went right off the damn rails with that response. you might want to look into chemical restraints in easy-to-swallow capsules, man. or suppositories; whatever floats your boat.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted April 12, 2018 10:59 PM

Dude, there are things that are already researched. Like, when you put guys on a poker table and hand them the ability to burn a certain amount of chips of everyone, some having the ability to burn them all. What they have to do and why.
It's not a matter of discussion, it's a matter of information.

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artu
artu


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My BS sensor is tingling again
posted April 13, 2018 02:24 AM

fred said:
you can't start out from such a ridiculous premise, and expect to be taken seriously enough to have someone try to have a logical and rational discussion with you.

fred, don't just do this. Had this been a karate movie, you'd have been slapped by so many senseis. Just slapped.
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fred79
fred79


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SCOURGE OF THE H-SEA
posted April 13, 2018 02:46 AM

and had this been a jedi movie, i would have used the force to make you two poop your pants until you couldn't get any nourishment from food. you don't want any of this.

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artu
artu


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My BS sensor is tingling again
posted April 13, 2018 03:07 AM

You have imaginative humour on a level that rules out the possibility of you being an  idiot, fred. But deduction is not your strong suit, and when you act like it is your best suit, it just doesn't fit. You can deliver a perspective, but when you deliver that perspective in the manner of "only perspective possible since you are the logical one," that perspective becomes surreal.
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fred79
fred79


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SCOURGE OF THE H-SEA
posted April 13, 2018 04:10 AM

artu said:
You have imaginative humour on a level that rules out the possibility of you being an  idiot, fred. But deduction is not your strong suit, and when you act like it is your best suit, it just doesn't fit. You can deliver a perspective, but when you deliver that perspective in the manner of "only perspective possible since you are the logical one," that perspective becomes surreal.


you claim that deduction isn't my strong suit, and yet you were proven to lack even basic common sense or understanding in the mass shooting thread, where i broke everything down for you(and others) countless times, only for you to(however willfully) not comprehend ANYTHING i pointed out(and pretty much just ignored what i was driving at overall). after you argued against basic common sense for 40+ pages, i stopped really caring about your stance on anything. i might as well take what my nephews say to heart, when they don't know their snows from their elbows.

i used to think, because you are well-read and articulate, that you were one of the most intelligent people here. because of your constant arguing with others on even basic snow, and especially your arguments in the mass shooting thread, i no longer think that. if you put as much effort into understanding than you do trying to be articulate and ending up sounding gratingly pompous instead, you just might learn something that will actually HELP you in life. i have been trying to reach you on that point for years now, and you're still fighting me on that. we can argue the whats, whys, and wherefores of all of humanity in endless circles until the day we both die, but without that basic saving grace, it will all be for naught.


tl,dr; try to listen to others for a change. you trying to sound intelligent while arguing with people isn't going to teach you anything.

lastly, i know damn well that i'm not an idiot. i'd have to be an idiot to think so.

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blizzardboy
blizzardboy


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Prince of Poetry
posted April 13, 2018 05:18 AM
Edited by blizzardboy at 05:45, 13 Apr 2018.

@fred

Though I entirely disagree with you and the NRA on guns and believe the gun lobby has caused considerable suffering to Americans - especially high risk / vulnerable lower class communities - I do respect the fact that you are explaining your views in a thread that is 1 against many.

But I havent seen anybody in the last few pages of that thread being anymore aggressive than you. Artu has been one of the calmer ones in the group in the mass shooting thread and makes several good points.

That being said, trying to analyze your intelligence/strengths over an internet forum is kind of an ad hominen and not directly relevant.
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artu
artu


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My BS sensor is tingling again
posted April 13, 2018 08:40 AM

fred said:
and yet you were proven to lack even basic common sense or understanding in the mass shooting thread, where i broke everything down for you(and others) countless times, only for you to(however willfully) not comprehend ANYTHING

Lol, see, you just did it again. This is exactly what I was talking about. Whatever you may believe, it was the other 5 or 6 of us with the common sense there, not the other way around. Dont be so sure about yourself with such rhetoric, (and then additionally recommend to listen, the irony!) because you use such rhetoric in situations that is so far away from you teaching basic logic to others. You are usually sunbathing on a non sequitur while doing that.
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fred79
fred79


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SCOURGE OF THE H-SEA
posted April 13, 2018 10:02 AM

blizzardboy said:
@fred

Though I entirely disagree with you and the NRA on guns and believe the gun lobby has caused considerable suffering to Americans - especially high risk / vulnerable lower class communities - I do respect the fact that you are explaining your views in a thread that is 1 against many.

But I havent seen anybody in the last few pages of that thread being anymore aggressive than you. Artu has been one of the calmer ones in the group in the mass shooting thread and makes several good points.

That being said, trying to analyze your intelligence/strengths over an internet forum is kind of an ad hominen and not directly relevant.


Just responding to what artu said.

If you had been the primary target, having to endlessly argue and reiterate your points over and over for 40+ pages while people outright ignored most of what you wrote in explanation repeatedly, you would have been angry, too. I exercised an awesome amount of restraint in that thread, considering what i was dealing with. You have no idea.

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fred79
fred79


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SCOURGE OF THE H-SEA
posted April 13, 2018 10:10 AM
Edited by fred79 at 10:13, 13 Apr 2018.

Also, go back and read those 40+ pages; starting with my post regarding the florida shooting. You'll see what i'm talking about, you'll see that my points were the simplest thing in the world to understand, especially after i broke them down.

There's absolutely no excuse for the snow i had to put up with in that thread, after i clarified the reasoning behind my stance. Which i shouldn't even have HAD to do in the first place; let alone, for 40+ pages.

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