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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: HOTA vs VCMI question...
Thread: HOTA vs VCMI question... This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
necxelos
necxelos

Tavern Dweller
posted May 08, 2018 10:43 PM

HOTA vs VCMI question...

Hello everyone.

I hope title brought Your attention, because contrary to what it suggests I'm not planning to start a bloodbath between fans of those 2.

Instead I'd like to get some information regarding VCMI "upcoming" content and whether or not it is really upcoming or long forgotten and just keeping the fasade and illusion of being worked on.

You see, unlike HOTA which seems to be more or less regularly (although at very slow pace) updated for past several years and playable (and balanced and competetive and of official quality) all this time, I find lots of VCMI projects advertised/mentioned on forums (including screens) for even longer (Forge, Oasis, Alternative Creatures, etc.) yet none of it can be actually found and played (at least not in the state even remotely comparable to current HOTA quality).

What is going on? Are those projects ever going to be finished? Or maybe their teams are so small compared to HOTA crew, that we'll be happy to get a grip on anything playable in 20 years if at all?

I really thought HOTA team is going slowly but they are like Barry Allen compared to VCMI modding teams.

Thoughts? Insights? Facts? I'd kill to have a playable Oasis, Forge, Kronverk and any other city that fits M&M lore (I say no to all those "let's pull stuff from other games" comedy though)...

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acidchalk
acidchalk


Promising
Known Hero
posted May 08, 2018 11:01 PM

Vcmi is modable, those projects you mentioned are mods made for Vcmi by other people. Vcmi is updated regularly and you can download daily builds.

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avatar


Promising
Famous Hero
posted May 08, 2018 11:03 PM

MDT's Forge is finished, its quality is compared to Cove (maybe except portraits), alternative creatures is on the way. For the rest of new towns - Bastille nad Pavillion is quite enjoyable.

And yes, HotA Team is now the biggest and most talented team. And it won't change in the future.
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necxelos
necxelos

Tavern Dweller
posted May 09, 2018 12:02 AM

Just from the amount of "forums coverage" and spoilered content/screenshots flying around one could easily assume (like I did) that Oasis Team, Forge Team and others, aspire to be a direct HOTA competition. So You're saying that was more of a "loud minority" than real competition?

As for Forge I have some subquestions:
1) Which Forge (there's many same-named mods)? Link would be nice, humble thanks in advance.
2) By "Forge is completed and similar quality as Cove" do You mean:
- City and all units done and of similar quality to Cove visual-wise and of official looking art style?
- Map Dwellings and RMG integration of similar quality to that of HOTA?
- City Uniqueness gameplay-wise and faction balance of similar quality to Cove (which is tournament ready with lots of YouTube tournaments coverage)?

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fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
SCOURGE OF THE H-SEA
posted May 09, 2018 12:14 AM

necxelos said:
I'd kill to have a playable Oasis, Forge, Kronverk and any other city that fits M&M lore (I say no to all those "let's pull stuff from other games" comedy though)...


so make them yourself. you seem like you know what you want.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted May 09, 2018 12:43 AM



https://wiki.vcmi.eu/Mod_list

It also has Brain Suckers!
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He JVC taught us how to use skeletons. -Ghost

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fiorin
fiorin


Promising
Known Hero
ctrl + s
posted May 09, 2018 03:27 AM

necxelos said:
I hope title brought Your attention, because contrary to what it suggests I'm not planning to start a bloodbath between fans of those 2.

Instead I'd like to get some information regarding VCMI "upcoming" content and whether or not it is really upcoming or long forgotten and just keeping the fasade and illusion of being worked on.
...


I understand your thoughts about the mod content. Im doing my mod too, and sometimes its really hard step forward.

As a huge fan of Hota team & their quality, its complicated achieve same content level, but we are trying... each one as possible

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Promising
Famous Hero
posted May 09, 2018 07:10 AM
Edited by avatar at 07:12, 09 May 2018.

necxelos said:

As for Forge I have some subquestions:
1) Which Forge (there's many same-named mods)? Link would be nice, humble thanks in advance.

MDT Forge
Quote:

2) By "Forge is completed and similar quality as Cove" do You mean:
- City and all units done and of similar quality to Cove visual-wise and of official looking art style?

Do't know what is official art style - but yes
Quote:

- Map Dwellings and RMG integration of similar quality to that of HOTA?

Yes. But remember it's a mod for VCMI.
Quote:

- City Uniqueness gameplay-wise and faction balance of similar quality to Cove (which is tournament ready with lots of YouTube tournaments coverage)?

Yes. But remember it's a mod for vcmi. VCMI is ongoing project, far from finish and hota playability.
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portus
portus


Hired Hero
posted May 09, 2018 07:45 AM
Edited by portus at 07:46, 09 May 2018.

Maybe it's only me, but I have never felt about it as "competition". Still, I understand and even share your impatience, especially when it comes to Project Ironfist in my case (I love H2 style). Keep up the good work, teams!
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Ssssshhhhhhhpp!! Ah! (crimson cloud and I'm gone)

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necxelos
necxelos

Tavern Dweller
posted May 09, 2018 03:01 PM

Personally (and subjectively) I don't feel like I'm impatient at all. We're talking years here, 10+ years in most cases, 5+ in some. There are many mods (for other games) that I play which were released in similar or shorter timelines, except they are milion times bigger. To name a few:

- Caveman 2 Cosmos for Civilization 4 (this mod is currently bigger than the base game itself and still growing - adds hundreds of features, units, etc. - it's a new game basically).

- Ultimate Apocalypse for Down of War (content wise bigger than the game itself, although unlike C2C it doesn't add many new features).

- Oblivion and Skyrim Overhaul mods. Name a feature, You get a mod for that, that's basically how it works. My playthrough is on 100+ mods active at the same time so... Basically a new game.

I'm just sad that compared to the above HOMM3 modding community seems to be dying, since this really is a great game. No offense to anyone, I know people who make mods put their heart into it (at least most of them - I fail to see heart, soul or even brain in creations as ugly as old WoG) it's just how things are. If an ambitious mod project is done by 2-3 people it will never get released, not to mention patched and balanced. My question is - why get poeple hopes up and release screenshots and spoilers for things they'll most likely never play.

And doing mods like WoG (reused assets from other games, unbalanced features, zero atmosphere due to lack of coherent art style) defeats the purpose of modding for me. It looks like IT students project where everyone throws his piece at it but noone cares about result as a whole.

Well I spilled my sadness out... Thanks for clarifications everyone and best of luck to those modders who still believe they can finish what they're doing. To others: please stop making false promises to fans.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted May 09, 2018 03:18 PM

What an unproductive comment. Fans make mods in their free time and are not paid for. They don't have to promise anything and be accountable for that. Beside, there are 120+ mods for Era/wog which are 100% playable and there is a lot of demand and feedback for them, they may not be your cup of tea but that is your problem, not the community's one. Heroes 3 community is/was one of the most creative ever, compared with the game life time, release date and multiplayer usage.

necxelos said:
My question is - why get poeple hopes up and release screenshots and spoilers for things they'll most likely never play.


The day when you will sit down and try to create something instead of patronizing others, you will know why.
____________
All my Era II mods

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fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
SCOURGE OF THE H-SEA
posted May 09, 2018 03:19 PM
Edited by fred79 at 15:20, 09 May 2018.

@ necxelos:

there's a lot of modding work being done. the hota team, the vcmi team, and various others, including myself, are all working on releasing content. i'm working on many different projects myself(my object patch, which you undoubtedly hate since i don't create my own content out of thin air; despite the fact that, for 3d modders, they have to get their textures from somewhere as well, most of the time;; my campaign; 3 different factions[fear, lovecraft, forge], etc).

you come to this forum complaining because it doesn't function at the same speed as the other mods you use in other games, and i severely doubt that you put work into ANY of what you use. so, if you want something done quicker, work towards that goal yourself. all the modding tools you need for any game you like, are out there and available. there's no excuse whatsoever for you to be complaining about the speed of someone else's work. the entire world doesn't owe you anything, at ANY speed.

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acidchalk
acidchalk


Promising
Known Hero
posted May 09, 2018 04:18 PM
Edited by acidchalk at 16:18, 09 May 2018.

@ necxelos:

Spoken like the true entitled user that you are. Try making something yourself then get back to us.

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 09, 2018 05:13 PM
Edited by Stevie at 17:15, 09 May 2018.

Community modding is a process where everything you should expect is nothing and everything you get you should be grateful for. Keep your expectations low and be unassuming. You also can't really compare the modding community of Heroes with those of Civilization and Skyrim, there's quite the difference.

That said, I found VCMI to be inferior to ERA and HotA in terms of content. Wouldn't recommend it for the time being.
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler

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AlfWithCake
AlfWithCake


Adventuring Hero
posted May 09, 2018 06:46 PM
Edited by AlfWithCake at 18:51, 09 May 2018.

 I basically despise when people say "do it before critisising", not a good argument. It's true that VCMI is slow, he's right here, even though most of author's points are invalid. It just doesn't mean VCMI is worse than HOTA, IMO they're incomparable, they've got different goals.
necxelos said:
My question is - why get poeple hopes up and release screenshots and spoilers for things they'll most likely never play.

 Since people like me don't help in any way other than testing maybe, no matter why, we can just hope to get a result one day. It's not like we're dwelling on the only thought that VCMI will someday be released.

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fiorin
fiorin


Promising
Known Hero
ctrl + s
posted May 09, 2018 08:32 PM

AlfWithCake said:
 I basically despise when people say "do it before critisising", not a good argument...


I agree with that point when is about quality or ready to use things.

There's a lot of unfinished projects (abandoned or just not good enough). Thats a bad thing about mods.. but its not a exclusive thing from our community.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted May 09, 2018 08:42 PM

There is a lot of activity around VCMI, the main reason being that you can add and play your own town and faction creatures within one afternoon coding session. Which neither Hota or Wog are or will ever be capable of doing so. Render unto Caesar.
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All my Era II mods

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acidchalk
acidchalk


Promising
Known Hero
posted May 09, 2018 09:29 PM

Once Vcmi is finished it will be able to do everything and then some. Its taken years for it to get where it did and will probably take more before it'll be up to the standards of people who don't understand what it takes to do such a thing.

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 09, 2018 10:26 PM

It's been over 8 years and VCMI couldn't deliver a release version in that time. It's not that people don't understand what a great effort it is (which is probably true), it's more about the fact that it takes way too long. In a couple of years if and when VCMI will finally be ready, there won't be anyone left to play it (I know I wouldn't, Heroes 3 is a relic to me).
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler

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Promising
Famous Hero
posted May 09, 2018 10:54 PM

There's no such thing as final release in open projects. Therefore we don't speak we're waiting for HotA final update
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