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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: The Preserve: Overcrowded with useless and goofy looking creatures!
Thread: The Preserve: Overcrowded with useless and goofy looking creatures! This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
lichie_lich
lichie_lich


Hired Hero
posted April 26, 2002 12:22 PM

The Preserve: Overcrowded with useless and goofy looking creatures!

I really loved all the 'traditional'(because of the way they resembles the castles in Heroes2)towns in Heroes4 except for the Preserve. Why? First, they got too much creature in their roster, causing an imbalance to the quantity of 'support' creatures. Second, some of the creatures suck in the term of both strategy and design.Okay here's the list of creatures that I think deserves to be removed from the game in the next Heroes installations:  

1. Leprechauns: They were promised to have a spellbook with them, but they ended up fighting with their puny fists! The luck skill is cool, but still useless, looking at the way they only have 10 HP and deals 1-2 damage! Nice dying animation though.  

2. Satyrs: These happy go lucky Drunken-Master-wannabe beasts are just plain useless. Fine, they got maximum morale with the mirth, but, cmon! How are you going to fight, like, Dragon Golems with those puny kicks?!?!

3. White tigers. They are creative in the term of design, but there are other first strike creatures in the game, making these Siberians looked like a ho-hum adddition.

4. Mantises. I liked them, they are strong and cool looking, but the Preserve already got two great level 4 units and it'll be unfair to have them summonable.

These creatures are supposed to be replaced by old favorites like the Dendroids and Pegasi...but I dunno...that's why I kinda hate the way the Preserve is such an overcrowded and unbalanced town filled with dumb looking creatures! (WTF)! They employ flying BBQ-ed  chikens to fight against Black Dragons! And I kinda miss the cute look of AB's Faerie Dragons...              
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Krishhh
Krishhh


Adventuring Hero
still learning spells
posted April 26, 2002 01:11 PM

1. Well, they are just leprachauns, they have never beenment to do anything else then give god luck, besides noone can make you take it, there are better creatures in the portal.
2.Puny kicks? Those are not human legs, you know.That "puny" kick would kickthe head off that dragon golem if the dragon golem wouldn`t be so fast.
3.True, they shoud have somthing more.
4. Don`t get your point. How are they unfair? Summonig is the whole meaning of the preserve, it would be nothing w/o it, so it must be strong.


Yes, the pheonix shouldn`t look loke a BBQ-ed chicken, butI think that the fairy dragon looks great now.

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Jenova
Jenova


Famous Hero
posted April 26, 2002 01:59 PM

So.. are you saying the Preserve is good or bad?

I agree the lower tier units suck. As do leprechauns.

But I disagree that their level 4 units are overly powerful.. They're no more so than other towns.

I know there are a lot of goofy designs, Preserve aren't the only town that has them.

And the Phoenix in AOW2 looks pretty cool.. Well better than HOMM4's even though there is less detail on AOW2's units.
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Lichie_lich
Lichie_lich


Hired Hero
posted April 26, 2002 02:10 PM

Well honestly...they are meant to be good...but it's just that I think they are fairly unbalanced. Well I haven't played with it much, so maybe I'll grow to love 'em one day...hehe.

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Midler
Midler


Hired Hero
High Priestess Elf Queen
posted April 26, 2002 11:34 PM

I agree with u Lichie!

As much as I hate the Mantises' design, I think its primary purpose is to be recruitable if u choose to buy F Dragons instead of Phoenixes, as a back up against Black Dragons. But they COULD have came up with something more creative instead of a giganticized insect.

Creatures I want gone:
Mantis
White Tiger
WASPWORT!!!
Faerie Dragon (I've seen ENOUGH dragons)

Leprechauns are ok, only if theyre able to case more than one spell. Satyrs are... ok too, but give them a weapon instead of Karate sheesh. Maybe a flute-dagger?

Creatures I want in:
Hind (Level 3)
Dendroid/Treant (Level 2/3/4) <whichever level is fine for me. I can depict it well in any one of the levels>
Merfolk (Level 2) Hey this IS the Nature town right. Unless they make a sea-town in the future, Merfolk belong here, not the Might town.
Druid (Level 2/3) Get rid of those monks and get these guys back. So what if there's a hero Druid class. There's also a Crusader class, a Mage class, and a Monk class that promotes lack of originality.
Dryad (Level 2/4) Either make it a normal tree-dwelling race like the Elves and make it a level 2 spell caster or an ethereal spirit folk Level 4 spell caster, making a better replacement for the F Dragons.

... or at least, in my eyes anyways.
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Darion
Darion


Promising
Famous Hero
posted April 27, 2002 02:36 AM

Wolves are a staple in Homm and lots of other fantasy game.. not the discovery wolves though. They were better in Homm2. Although I do agree with you that the addition of three normal animals (wolf, white tiger, mantis) is pushing it.
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Djive
Djive


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
posted April 27, 2002 04:11 AM

I don't see why you complain at all, and certainly not on the creatures you complain on.

Leprechauns: Are Ok. They're supposed to look that way. And fortune is a good spell.

Sprite: Are Ok.

Wolves: I'd have to agree with Wesley. They are not good. They should look more bestial and have Heroes 2 approach. They're wimpy. Two strikes is not much of an ability when they're probably dead after the retaliation of first one.

Satyrs: Are Ok. They are supposed to look this way. And I don't see anything wrong with the kick. After all, their hooves is an effective weapon.

White Tigers: They look powerful and have good stats. Nothing wrong with them.

Elves: They are Ok. You get used to the new look and the reduced power from H3.

Elementals: These look a bit goofy, although I don't see much wrong in that.

Waspwort: The animation of this one could have been better. Still I'd say the creature is not a bad idea in itself.

Griffin and Unicorns: I don't particularly like or dislike these two.

Phoenix: This one is horrid. It simply looks bad in my eyes.

Faerie Dragon: This one is good.

Mantis: Hey, what are your complaints? This is a good looking creature. Nothing goofy about it at all.

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Jenova
Jenova


Famous Hero
posted April 27, 2002 06:11 AM

Unicorns and Griffins look great!

I love the rainbow mane on the unicorn. They are probably the better designed units out of the lot. The Mantis I think looks very suitable as well.

I would like to see more variety with the heroes though.. Perhaps have the Archer's steed be a white tiger like the Priestess of the Moon in War3. Or a unicorn. The zebra is definately cool, but I didn't want all of Nature's heroes to ride the same steed if you know what I mean.

Pegasi would be a good addition to the Preserve town, though it's a bit late to be talking about replacing the units.
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Biff_Justice
Biff_Justice


Hired Hero
Watch out, evil!
posted April 27, 2002 06:21 AM

I would love to see the Treemen/Ents/Dendroids... whatever you want to call them, make a comeback.

And, I do agree that many of the neutral nature creatures could have been more well thought out.  I do like the Waspwort quite a bit, however, and the Mantis is okay.  The only creature you can buy in town without the portal which I dislike is the white tiger, but I do have to admit even it serves it's purpose as a decent grunt troop.  I just wish they had a little more character to them.
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lichie_lich
lichie_lich


Hired Hero
posted April 27, 2002 07:53 AM

The thing is that the Preserve doesn't follow the 'standard' of fantasy forest towns that are inhabited by forest creatures like the ents, dryads and all that, instead they are inhabited by some out of mythology creatures that simply looked DUMB!I know they are meant to look creative with some 'original' creatures but it's just that they used wrong concept! I know it's kinda traditional for the 'seorceress' town to have phoenixes, but how are you going to keep those fiery chickens in a forest! God I just wish that next time NWC will make a better Preserve in, like, Heroes V? The Preserve is the ugliest town in Heroes IV if I can say!
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DonGio
DonGio


Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
posted April 27, 2002 10:20 AM

Quote:
I don't see why you complain at all, and certainly not on the creatures you complain on.

Leprechauns: Are Ok. They're supposed to look that way. And fortune is a good spell.


Ehrm? Excuse me? Leprechauns are supposed to look like they've went number one in their pants and are on an amphetamine trip? Ok, whatever. You sure haven't had high hopes for the graphics of this game (or any other aspect, judging from your judging of anyone judging anything about the game)

Quote:
Sprite: Are Ok.


Agree. Apart from them being butt ugly. I guess 3DO is making us all think about how obsessed we are with looks and appearances with all these ass ugly creatures...

Quote:
Wolves: I'd have to agree with Wesley.


I agree that the wolves suck, but that's it. The wolves could look better (like the HOMMII wolf), but not like a freaking werewolf or something! The wolf is one of the most feared and spun-in-myth (pardon my french) animals of all times, and they are much cooler than any pseudo-fantasy ass-creature you would *invent* (voice heavy with scorn) yourself.

Quote:
Satyrs: Are Ok. They are supposed to look this way. And I don't see anything wrong with the kick. After all, their hooves is an effective weapon.


Just a question: Who dictates how creatures are supposed to look? Cause whoever it is, (s)he is doing a crappy job...

Quote:
White Tigers: They look powerful and have good stats. Nothing wrong with them.


Not as a unit, no. But these I can see why people don't want in HOMMIV. They have no special place in folklore, and are also creatures which most of us has no relation to, except that it's an endangered species.


Elves: They are Ok. You get used to the new look and the reduced power from H3.


Glad you're getting used to the new look, cause I sure as hell am not! They're so ugly they can inflict physical damage just by sticking their hideous faces out (a new special ability, perhaps?)...

Quote:
Elementals: These look a bit goofy, although I don't see much wrong in that.


OK, I'm soon changing my submission in the HC yearbook under "most likely to work for 3DO" to you, Djive. You think it's all right that the creatures looks like something off my used toilet paper!

Quote:
Waspwort: The animation of this one could have been better. Still I'd say the creature is not a bad idea in itself.


No. Indeed not a bad idea. Let's examine it: "Let's have a carnivorious plant, that can think, and have it's own mind, so it can pledge allegiance to heroes, and lets give them a sensor apparatus, so they can spot the enemy and kill it with it's ability to shoot poisonous needles. Noone will think twice about it!" Phsish!

Quote:
Griffin and Unicorns: I don't particularly like or dislike these two.


Me neither (apart from both looking like asswipes).

Quote:
Phoenix: This one is horrid. It simply looks bad in my eyes.


What? I don't believe my eyes! Djive, zapper of toads and high protector of the super-butt-sucky graphics of HOMMIV, critizising it's own lovechild? And I think it looks like a flaming seagull... is that what we want a phoenix to be?

Faerie Dragon: This one is good.

Quote:
Mantis: Hey, what are your complaints? This is a good looking creature. Nothing goofy about it at all.



My complaint is: Why the !"#%&/()`?+^'* is there a bug in my lineup? Hand me the pest-o-cide!
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Cat
Cat


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Gonna Get Dirrty...
posted April 27, 2002 10:31 AM

Well, I dunno where jondi, my partner in crime is...

But as on of the ultimate preserve fans I have to put in my two cents.

1) Goofy Creatures?  I'm sorry, but compared to the other towns they are utter visions of beauty.  This is the same game, may I remind you, where we have orcs that look like pigs, bow-legged squires, skeletons that make exactly the same noise when they walk as women walking in high heels do.  I will admit that the phoenix looks like a chicken, but that's it.

2) I think the leprechauns can cast luck, can't they?  Or similar..

Sprites can be a minor menace with their first strike.  No more than that, but sometime that is enough.

Wolves have an unforseen talent, I have to say.  When taking a castle, they are poor for any actual fighting, but wonderful for destroying gates due to their two attacks special.

Satyrs, when you have a large number of hem, are surprisingly resiliant.  Also, it is a bonus when playing multiplayer to have a stack that your opponant finds so irritating that they may make mistakes in their annoyance.

The elementals are amazing.  Especially water elementls.  On their own, a stack of water elementals can cause serious damage.  Wheather you keep them for defence or use them for attack, they are dangerous and can decimate seemingly stronger armies.

ANYTHING rude said about the unis.. don't even try it!!

And the mantis looks just like a real one to me.. except it doesn't keep swinging it's head round like real ones do.  Or sit on your bath towel for 45mins and refuse to leave..

Preserve is the future.. (along with necro and Academy, that is)

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jondifool
jondifool


Promising
Adventuring Hero
extinct but alive!
posted April 27, 2002 11:04 AM

greetings Cat -

Well have to say I stopped played homm4. I will give it a chance again when the multi patch comes. But I don't have any expectations anymore. I don't find the game addictive at all. So thats why I am in lurker mode. So you have to defend preserve alone!

with regards
jondifool



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Djive
Djive


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
posted April 27, 2002 12:04 PM

DonGio:
You've already made it clear in a number of threads that you hate the game, the creatures and the graphics.

I'm entitled to my opionion of the game, so there's no need for you to go squashing my subjective opinions. Just cool down and accept that other people feel differently about the game.

I don't see why everyone mind having wild animals like Wolves and Tigers in the Preserve. They obviously fit in this town, as he Forest is one of the places where they live naturally.

Apart from everything else I hate when people needlessly go stomping on other peoples' creative ideas, like you did for the Waspwort. (And no DonGio: I don't work for 3do or NWC and I'm not in any way responsible for its design.)

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Jenova
Jenova


Famous Hero
posted April 27, 2002 02:11 PM
Edited By: Jenova on 27 Apr 2002

Quote:
I know it's kinda traditional for the 'seorceress' town to have phoenixes, but how are you going to keep those fiery chickens in a forest!


LOL, I never thought of that actually.. They'll set ablaze the entire forest! But since no town is tied to any specific terrain, you can say not all Preserves are in the forest or grasslands.. But then that also conflicts with the theme. Preserve is about 'Nature' and 'Druids' and has a forest feel to it.. A Preserve in the desert or snow or lava? Just doesn't feel right. That's one reason I wish they didn't do the dynamic terrain towns. Asylum has a cave like dungeon feel, necropolis the lava or wasteland, academy the snow, etc.. To see them on other terrain just takes away from the atmosphere and uniqueness.

I ranted a little.. But anyway, Phoenix just have to be associated with the Preserve no matter what, just like Titans to Academy and Black Dragons to Asylum.

Quote:
Leprechauns are funny and noone forces you to buy them.


But they have a habit of 'popping' up into your army if you have the Summoning skill.. Even if you keep dismissing them. The only way to get rid of them (apart from advancing your Summoning skill) is to fill up your 7 slots with units.

Quote:
I don't see why everyone mind having wild animals like Wolves and Tigers in the Preserve. They obviously fit in this town, as he Forest is one of the places where they live naturally.


Problem is Preserves aren't always in the forest.. Kinda awkward seeing them on other terrain actually.. Where Tigers and other native wildlife aren't actually native.

Quote:
Faerie Dragon-Lol! This creatures are evil and not a good choise in the Preserve, replace them with Dryads.


'Faerie' evil? I agree though, I'd rather have Gold Dragons.

And Satyrs look stupid. Elves I don't mind. Waspworts work well so I don't mind their looks. Wolves look a bit small, Tigers look good, the elementals are fine, Leprechauns are as stupid as the Satyrs (they also walk unbearably slow), the Phoenix is a BBQ roast chicken (the HOMM2 phoenix looks best), and that about covers my take on the Preserve.

Now rather than picking on the Preserve's units, you can easily do the same thing about the other towns and the number of goofy creatures will be roughly the same. Look at the Haven's pikemen.. Do they have problems walking? It looks painful to them. Dragon Golem, 'nuff said.

As for complaining about the elementals looking like Pokemon.. Pokemon creatures happen to have a diverse range of designs, so almost anything non humanoid can be likened to Pokemon.
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Lichie_lich
Lichie_lich


Hired Hero
posted April 27, 2002 04:35 PM

Well, I was the first one who started this thread but until now I haven't really put my opinions on EACH creature looks...so here goes!

1. Leprechauns: They looked kinda good for they are leprechauns , but they walked  like some gay cowboy.

2. Satyrs: I got no problem with his looks, like at fisrt I expect them to look like the satyr from Disney's hercules, but they actually look muscular and all that but still...I can't bear to put these guys to fight against level four creatures. I also hate the way spellcaster heroes have to fight melee with kicks and punches...c'mon! give 'em a break!!!

3.Sprites: Looked a bit uglier than other sprites in previous series...but still OK.

4.Wolves: I got no problem with these guys' look, but they should make them 'darker' and more savage like Heroes 2 wolves.

5.Elves: They look ugly and a lot weaker than any other elves in the previous series. Even the Heroes 1 elves looked kinda stronger.

6.White Tigers: As I said, they looked ok, but it's just that they does not fit the theme!!! Like, why? Why White tigers!?!?! They should use some other creature with some strong mythical backgrounds!

7.Elementals: I actually liked the unique pokemon-eque concept that they apply to these four guys. The only elemental that I hate is the water. They looked like a glue elemental or even a walking condom!

8.Griffins: I liked the way they got kicked from Haven because I liked the all human haven now, but they don't belong in the Preserve. They looked evil now, so maybe they should be put in the Stronghold in the first place or something.

8. Mantises: They looked cool, but they should be called Giant Mutant Mantises instead. Next time why don't they rip off Fallout and put giant ants and cockroaches as well!

9. Unicorns: They looked as if they haven't bern fed for a month. Simply too thin and weak. But cool mane though.

10. Phoenixes: Colonel Sanders' smile grew bigger as he thinks they way his fried chickens look better. Nuff said.

11. Waspworphs: Weird. That's it. Weird is the word. And can I just ask if the waspworphs exist in any fantasy RPGs or even a myth?

God I feel like a jerk, humiliating NWC's designs like this, nut really...HEROES 4 HAS THE WORST CREATURE DESIGNS EVER and they are such a disgrace to the beautiful world of HEROES!!!

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DonGio
DonGio


Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
posted April 27, 2002 05:11 PM

Djive: Don't be such a partypooper. Have a laugh! I've never said I hate the game, just that I hate the graphics and, as more and more people obviously realize, it just isn't as addictive as the former HOMM games were.

And as always, no pun intended. Never meant to hurt or insult (OK, maybe insult, but only in a humorous sort of way...).


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Oldtimer
Oldtimer


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Please leave a message after..
posted April 27, 2002 06:43 PM

It doesn't really matter who many choices you have, some good or some bad, but the fact is that you can only have 6 monsters in your traveling army, assuming a might/mage hero combo.  I think that the only way to make the preserve competitive with the other towns is to have 2 nature specific creature slots that are available to nature heroes.  I would make them an advanced class upgrade with advanced summoning a requirement.  This would give nature a fighting chance by reflecting natures' strength in having creatures arouund.  Maybe you could limit the extra slots to creatures that the hero has available with his summoning power.  Right now nature is the weakest town, this would help make it a contender.  (I would also limit the slot that it would go away if the hero had death magic, Necros and demonolgists are strong enough already.)
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Thunder
Thunder


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted April 27, 2002 07:11 PM

Preserve weakest? They just have the best 4th level creature and most useful also. No need for Phoenixes. Faerie Dragons can toast your enemies much better.

About the first level creatures Preserve has... only Stronghold and Haven has better first level creatures.

Water Elementals are the best creatures to get from portal (and through summoning). Their Quicksand can do wonders.

There is not much to say about the second and the third level creatures. They aren't bad but nothing exceptional. As said Snake Strike cast on a huge stack of (summoned or not) Griffins can be real pain. If the percentage for the blinding effect of the Unicorns were bigger, they would be useful too, but it isn't so they aren't.

Preserve filled with useless creatures? Definitely no.

What comes to unit graphics only wolves look a bit ugly. But I can live with them.

About Water Elementals their "O-ou" when they die sounds good.
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Djive
Djive


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
posted April 27, 2002 07:23 PM

I actally like that heroes do different things in combat and attack differently. If every hero just took out a sword to strike the enemy I'd just find it plain boring.

So therefore I welcome the kicks the Satyr and Sorcerer(ess) do. Variety is good. The Sorcerer(ess) will still do the damage they are entitled to. (The animation doesn't cause them to do less damage!)

DonGio I do realize that Heroes 4 lacks replayability. Right now the only thing worth playing are the Campaigns. The single scenarios just have a too weak Ai. I can also agree that towns lack atmosphere and alot of other things.

However, I do maintain that creatures look overall better in H4 than H3.

They're not the best creatures, other game have better animations. But I'd still say that the creature animation are good considering that heroes is a strategy game.

The failing of Heroes 4 lies much more along the lines of failing to offer a strategic challenge than along the lines that the graphics are bad.

And if you feel H3 creatures are better than H4 creatures, then you're probably so used to the H3 graphics that you no longer see the faults in them.

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