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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: Interesting video about Haspids (HotA)
Thread: Interesting video about Haspids (HotA) This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 05, 2018 10:33 AM

Interesting video about Haspids (HotA)

I guess this video proves my point with Cove being OP:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYm549hC6q0
This is just one example of course, but when a 7th level creature can beat ALL other 7th levels, something is probably not right...
Cove needs to be toned down in my honest, humble opinion.


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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted June 05, 2018 11:58 AM
Edited by bloodsucker at 11:59, 05 Jun 2018.

I was precisely thinking I don't see the fuse with all those new factions, if they aren't slightly better then the original ones.
Yes, Cove is better then most, specially if you consider how good captains usually are but why would one choose to play other faction then Tower and Castle if they were worst?
Cove provides for a pretty hardcore game, with very good units at start and above average end-game units but it has his weaknesses also: the lack of a strong flier, the vulnerability to magic and the absence of a really fast unit.
All in all there is a reason why I like the faction and if the guys in PvP aren't complaining they won't hear it from me either.

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Djangoo
Djangoo


Adventuring Hero
posted June 05, 2018 12:06 PM

You also have to consider unit grow.

Vid from the same channel:

https://youtu.be/Y5dIlmS4KH4

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fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
SCOURGE OF THE H-SEA
posted June 05, 2018 12:09 PM

phoenix4ever said:
when a 7th level creature can beat ALL other 7th levels, something is probably not right


Logically, there has to be a "best" creature in every tier. So, i don't see the problem.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 05, 2018 12:29 PM

@Bloodsucker
Why does a new faction have to be stronger than original ones?, I don't get it.

@Fred
If Haspid really is supposed to be the best tier 7, why is'nt it the most expensive or at least as expensive as Archangel?
Also I don't get why a clumsy sea snake is so fast on land and that revenge ability is just insane.

The video was only one example, but most of Coves units are really strong and it's heroes are also very good, for some reason there are no heroes with really bad skills like Learning, Eagle Eye, First Aid or Mysticism...

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fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
SCOURGE OF THE H-SEA
posted June 05, 2018 12:44 PM

I think maybe you had your ass handed to you in a battle with those; maybe more than a few times. I'm totally sensing bias here.

Thinking a sea serpent(what you call "sea snake") isn't supposed to be huge and dangerous, is laughable. They destroy whole ships anywhere else, ffs.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 05, 2018 12:52 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 12:54, 05 Jun 2018.

Nope, but I am having an incredibly easy time when playing as Cove, it's the faction I win with the fastest of all 10 factions.

And yes Sea Serpents or Haspids are supposed to be dangerous in water, but it's crawling around like a snake on land, yet it is still somehow faster than Hydras, Behemoths and Titans...

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted June 05, 2018 01:04 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 13:08, 05 Jun 2018.

phoenix4ever said:
it's heroes are also very good...

You mean captains are good, besides Eovacious no Navigator is really good, even if early game Andal can be a game changer, with Slow spell and a specialty that will be very useful to get the strongest early game units u can have: some stacks of one witch/sorceress and a strong stack of assids. I don't see the use of Air Shield or Fire Ball specialty.
And since you were the one pointing those videos you may want to watch the one where puts Cove against Castle.
The reason I think new factions should be good is we already have more factions then we can play with at the same time, so some will have to be left behind. If the new one is weaker, since I'm not a masoquist will more often then not choose the one I find better (Castle).

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phe
phe


Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
posted June 05, 2018 01:07 PM

fred79 said:

Thinking a sea serpent(what you call "sea snake") isn't supposed to be huge and dangerous, is laughable. They destroy whole ships anywhere else, ffs.

maybe it was 8th level Sea Snake which we haven't seen so far which can destroy ships…;-)

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 05, 2018 01:18 PM

@Bloodsucker
Well Captains are probably better than Navigators, but most are pretty good and at least not horrible like Serena, Piquedram, Straker, Melodia or Inteus.

I did watch the Castle VS Cove video and yes Castle won, but it really does'nt prove anything. Castle probably has the strongest units overall. (Even stronger then Coves?, well I'm not sure.)
But if you gave me control of that battle, I could easily have won as Cove, but autocombat I don't trust for such a big battle.

If one faction is clearly better, it will probably become the most popular or end up being banned, like old Conflux or Necro.
All factions should be reasonably balanced imo, it keeps games most interesting.

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fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
SCOURGE OF THE H-SEA
posted June 05, 2018 01:35 PM

phoenix4ever said:
Nope, but I am having an incredibly easy time when playing as Cove, it's the faction I win with the fastest of all 10 factions.

And yes Sea Serpents or Haspids are supposed to be dangerous in water, but it's crawling around like a snake on land, yet it is still somehow faster than Hydras, Behemoths and Titans...


so, let me get this straight: you're complaining(maybe too strong a word?) because of a faction that you willfully play? lol, what is this, i don't even.

as far as serpents on land, i guess you forgot how fast real snakes are on land. because of their multiple segments, they can move very fast. now, multiply that speed by the size of the creature in question, and you have your explanation. i giant snake(or sea-serpent, if you will), would move fast as HELL on land. you sure as hell wouldn't be able to outrun one...


phe said:
maybe it was 8th level Sea Snake which we haven't seen so far which can destroy ships…;-)


i have sea serpents in some of my maps hidden in ocean events that attack ships... and the stats i use for the creature is even stronger than what cove has.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 05, 2018 01:42 PM

Well would'nt you complain about old Conflux or Necro or would you just believe everything is fine and choose only to play as those factions?, while everyone else is having a hard time.

Perhaps you are right about snakes, I honestly don't know that much about them, it just seems weird to me they are able to move so fast on land. It's not like Hydras are faster than Dragonflies and Wyverns or Behemoths are faster than Thunderbirds either. But perhaps you are right, maybe they should be very fast. (Like they already are.)

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Djangoo
Djangoo


Adventuring Hero
posted June 05, 2018 01:46 PM
Edited by Djangoo at 14:40, 05 Jun 2018.

also 1v1 battle does not take resurrect into account

best ability, therefore imo angel > haspid

----
nvm made a mistake

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fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
SCOURGE OF THE H-SEA
posted June 05, 2018 02:21 PM

phoenix4ever said:
Well would'nt you complain about old Conflux or Necro or would you just believe everything is fine and choose only to play as those factions?, while everyone else is having a hard time.

Perhaps you are right about snakes, I honestly don't know that much about them, it just seems weird to me they are able to move so fast on land. It's not like Hydras are faster than Dragonflies and Wyverns or Behemoths are faster than Thunderbirds either. But perhaps you are right, maybe they should be very fast. (Like they already are.)


hydras in homm3 have legs; if they were just segmented like the homm2 hydras(i wish), it would make sense that they would move faster. maybe that's why the homm3 creators gave them legs, who knows. maybe that was the deciding factor for the creatures, to try and tone down the strength of the fortress faction. though, i can honestly say i hate that they made that decision, for whatever reason. i much prefer homm2's hydras over homm3's. once i'm creating my own creatures, i'll be making my own snake-like hydras to replace those retarded-looking legged hydras.

as far as playing necro, well, that's my favorite faction. i couldn't give a damn about their strengths or weaknesses. besides the fact, that i don't play multiplayer, because i get my ass kicked by the AI when everything's equal anyway. i'd stand no chance against an actual seasoned human player.


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revolut1oN
revolut1oN


Famous Hero
posted June 05, 2018 03:10 PM
Edited by revolut1oN at 15:11, 05 Jun 2018.

You shouldn't judge balance by looking at how games vs computer go; one can basically use any town and easily beat CPU, therefore it shouldn't be the foundation of any conclusions.

Just watch high level competitive PVP when two skilled players play against each other; once you do, you will understand that Cove is a strong town, but for sure not the best one, not even in top 3 I'd say.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 05, 2018 03:20 PM

@Revolut1oN
What is top 3 then?

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fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
SCOURGE OF THE H-SEA
posted June 05, 2018 03:26 PM

It'd of been a lot easier to know that if an hc tally was ever specified from angelio's town threads.

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revolut1oN
revolut1oN


Famous Hero
posted June 05, 2018 03:41 PM
Edited by revolut1oN at 15:45, 05 Jun 2018.

Angelito town threads are long out of date, game has changed very much since then.

I don't know Phoenix, because I"m not top player myself. But from observing pro players, especially during trade phase of the game when players are trading with gold to determine who plays which castle - I'd say top picks are Castle, Ramprat, or Necro on templates when Galthran is available. Sometimes also Conflux is considered powerful since you can be very fast with Luna.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted June 05, 2018 07:10 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 19:19, 05 Jun 2018.

I would say that Cove has a very strong start and end game but the building requirements balance a lot in multiplayer.
The thing is: your initial best unit and the one you cross your fingers to get a lot in both initial heroes are the pirates but the frigate requires another day of building and is the only dwelling you can skip to build the serpents. So, while I privilege them and the witches and try to build Blacksmith and Mage Guild week one to get shooters for the second week and many times don't give a damn about nixes and sea-serpents, cause if I got Slow and expert Earth, I can start taking other creature banks then hives and build my army from them, a good PvP player will privilege strong melee creatures and will try to build for serpents or at least nixes and castle.
This makes for a quite different second and third weeks, where I keep building my army steadily without losses and they keep using fodder to smash the guardians with powerful melee stacks and build up one or two powerstacks that can take topes sooner, one of the main objectives for PvP, that I often left behind until I take and develop a town like Castle or Conflux, where I can get a unit faster then dragons.
Generally, for single player it doesn't matter when to take the first topes since AI will only start taking them by the end of month two, early month three, for PvP that means you would have a lot less primary skills and no access to spells from books and this makes all the difference.
So, goodbye powerstack of Sea Dogs with Accurate Shoot that kills ten angels in one round (if you are lucky) and this quite balances Cove.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted June 05, 2018 07:21 PM

I don't play cove but isn't the first comment in the video replies - made by nik - enough explicit on both pluses and minuses? Also there are actually international tournaments where cove is played along all other towns and if any unbalance was repeatedly reported they would have fixed it asap, no?

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