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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: "Both Sides Against the Middle"
Thread: "Both Sides Against the Middle" This thread is 9 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 · «PREV / NEXT»
Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted September 01, 2018 07:12 PM

Actually our debt will explode with Trump, as he cuts here and there every extra bonus USA kept infusing, Nato, Palestine, asian trade, climate. Which is a good thing for USA, but bad for us, extra taxes to come.

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Zenofex
Zenofex


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Kreegan-atheist
posted September 01, 2018 07:42 PM

It's not good for the USA because they can't produce everything by themselves and ruining other financial systems via the "strong dollar" will force them to look for alternatives and ultimately dispose of that bull**** system. About time by the way. Not to mention that losing the grip over NATO - which has always been their puppy - will strengthen the positions of Russia and China immensely.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


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Wog refugee
posted September 01, 2018 07:57 PM

No country can produce everything by itself, so why USA should be any different and put more on the table than the others? China doesn't do it, Russia neither. Also why China and Russia should not have their positions strengthened, for a more fair balance?  Also nato purpose was to keep Russia away, Russia is no longer a threat so what's Nato for?

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Zenofex
Zenofex


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Kreegan-atheist
posted September 01, 2018 08:27 PM

Point is, Trump's actions do more harm than good for the US in longer terms. That the rest of the world - or part of it - may benefit from that is another story.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


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Wog refugee
posted September 01, 2018 08:57 PM

Point is, I would love to have an objective answer on how cutting ridiculous financial aids to China and India so they could pollute more, how asking Nato members to respect their engagement and pay 2% of GDP instead of trying to sneak and how cutting aids to palestiniens who not only refuse to talk but also use that money to finance terror and abusive immigration is doing harm to USA. Because the art of ignoring questions then clone your previous post without more precisions isn't going to settle your claims.

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Zenofex
Zenofex


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Kreegan-atheist
posted September 01, 2018 09:35 PM
Edited by Zenofex at 21:39, 01 Sep 2018.

Art?

NATO was created to hold the USSR and its allies, you said it yourself. Once the USSR went to Marx, NATO turned into an enforcement tool for the US and occasionally the UK and France, with the US blessing. In post-Cold-War Eastern Europe it's nearly a 100% US strategic construct and asset. The EU expansion was almost officially tied to the NATO expansion, until recently. Now however Macron talks about creating a "purely European" defensive organization to substitute NATO, something which even de Gaulle wouldn't suggest. How does that translate into making the US stronger? During Obama the US spying on its allies was brought to the public (not that it was a surprise for anyone, especially the intelligence services of the spied countries) and what happened is that Merkel went to Washington to say that the US is a valuable ally - if the same thing happens now, there will be public talks about creating a substitute for NATO, not reaffirming loyalty to the sovereign.

As for the "pollution", Trump's not for cutting the aids for China and India so they can pollute less but because he wants to harm them - the environmentalist he is, he's fully aware that the US' own pollution output is in top 3 and he's not giving a fart about it and you know that very well. Neither of these will pollute less because they are not getting these "aids" but both of them will be less willing to deal and more willing to apply force whenever they see fit, same as they are treated. You are not forgetting that China holds the biggest amount of the US foreign debt, are you?

The Palestinians... come on, this isn't serious. The US pays and arms all the terrorists in the Middle East who help them further their goals in the region and globally and suddenly the Palestinians are a problem because they are among those terrorists. How about this - the Zionist lobby in the US, after the inconvenient Obama has left the building, have finally found the guy who will advance their agenda without too much struggle? Might even proclaim Jerusalem the capital of Israel, why not?

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted September 01, 2018 09:53 PM

Zenofex said:
It's not good for the USA because they can't produce everything by themselves and ruining other financial systems via the "strong dollar" will force them to look for alternatives and ultimately dispose of that bull**** system. About time by the way. Not to mention that losing the grip over NATO - which has always been their puppy - will strengthen the positions of Russia and China immensely.

That must indeed change somehow. I mean, since Nixon, the dollar is just a floating currency anyway, it is no more “the bank note” of how much gold they preserve and such a system is open to so much manipulatoin, I am just curious why everybody gets along with it in the first place.
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markkur
markkur


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Once upon a time
posted September 01, 2018 09:55 PM

artu said:
@markkur

artu said:
Sure, I’ll reply to some comments directed at me and be done with it.

I understand this but there is a reason, I am not directing anything at any single-person. I am not saying what I am doing is IDEAL, frankly it is far from it and not what I would like. However, from my point of view, polarization of debate is everywhere now and about every topic. Now, that's only my take, but it is my take.

artu said:
Btw, your posts (and links) about politics usually involve a weird mix of serious stuff, binary reductionisms and a “golden age” nostalgia when in fact, it never existed. I could have been much more critical about it but I just didnt want to be, since it was your come back post after a while.

I do appreciate that my friend and have suspected the same and not from you alone.

Let me say it this way, and I have no typical opposition in mind; today, I do not see a "common-ground" for discussions beyond echo-chambers; instead I see WW1-like "no-person's-land" where anyone that steps out against the dominating narrative, will come under-fire. Where I surf, independent voices are being silenced in Universities, public debate and on nearly all social platforms...at this time. <imo> This CONTROL has no chance of ending well for any of us, unless WE all stand up for EACH other.

artu said:
@ However, if you really want more participation, my advice would be -again- to use the linking tool on the left instead of just copy pasting dozens of links. Most of us use tablets and phones now and it is really hard to select or drag such links if they are not clickable.
.

Thank you mate. That is a seriously valid reason and I do need to adjust my "Cantankerousness" situation to that fact.

If anyone can see one link I've posted and share what they know or think about the subject - if you ask a question, etc. I then can explain why I think that one subject matters and how it "may" fit in or around the problems affecting all of us mere peons.
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markkur
markkur


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Once upon a time
posted September 01, 2018 10:23 PM

artu said:
...I am just curious why everybody gets along with it in the first place.

We'd have to return to the end of WWII to see the escalation and compliance.

Remember, that I said that FDR, had taken the USA of the Gold-Standard "before the war" and that dubious action followed not many years after the creation of the "privately-owned Federal Reserve Bank."

At the end of the war, nations all over the globe owed tremendous sums of money to (in the end) these same folks. Dwell there a bit. For reference, find a you-tube video about the post-war British government under Clement Atlee.

I'll add a related and very important question; Japan and Germany were required to field only a tiny army. Who picked up the price-tag of defending said countries? Who profited by having to spend virtually no tax-money on Defense?

And who controlled those rebuilding programs?

moving-on

Who profited in Iraq?

Who profits now in Africa? Better not land on only ONE. We are talking agreements from the most unlikely allies. ((( Optics ))) & {{{ Rhetoric )))

All this relates and it never benefits the American taxpayers but saddles them with costs they never voted to accept. I would suggest this is the reality in nearly all nations today, despite the images we are all sold.

There are many players in all of this, past and present, and you know that but what I do not think is easily known, is the depth of cooperation between various misleading entities. There are many, but iirc, you are familiar with one that has been active in your own country for quite a long time and recently a story broke, in your neck of the woods that is NOT being told my the MSM. Think see-eye-of A.  


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Salamandre
Salamandre


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Wog refugee
posted September 01, 2018 10:39 PM

@zeno ok thanks, now going to answer to some of your points

Zenofex said:
Now however Macron talks about creating a "purely European" defensive organization to substitute NATO, something which even de Gaulle wouldn't suggest. How does that translate into making the US stronger?


Talking and doing is antagonistic for EU. The economy is broken, Macron's ministers resign one after another for not receiving the promised funds, retirements savings are challenged, salaries frozen if not on the wane, debt bigger than ever. UK left, even Germany is struggling and the fact that we were not able to respect the NATO 2% GPD engagement for decades shows we just can't do anything without USA filling most of the blanks. Its a fact.

Zenofex said:
As for the "pollution", Trump's not for cutting the aids for China and India so they can pollute less


This is not what I was saying, I only said that the taxpayer is harmed when USA sends millions to China or India, without anything in return. So is good for him that this money remains home.

Zenofex said:
The Palestinians... come on, this isn't serious. The US pays and arms all the terrorists in the Middle East


Err, whats the relation? if USA thinks it is in its interests to arm this or that group is one thing, but how is sending free money to Palestine, which has a zero strategical and geopolitical value going to make America stronger? Sure that sounds harsh and inhumane, but also we know that is not the money which will solve the palestinien issue, but only UN putting its sanctions towards Israel into actions, create an armed force and do same thing they did in the Balkans. They won't because they don't have neither the funds or the courage. So again, bring back  those wasted dollars  is good for America.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 01, 2018 11:05 PM

Salamandre said:
even Germany is struggling  

You gotta be kidding.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted September 01, 2018 11:29 PM

Great to hear (yet other analyses show the quite a different perspective, with 1/5 of german working force being paid less than 12 euros/hour then 40% of Germans having zero savings), maybe now Germany can finally pay the long awaited Nato 2% of GDP instead of 1.2%.
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markkur
markkur


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Once upon a time
posted September 02, 2018 05:25 AM

Salamandre said:
...if USA thinks it is in its interests to arm this or that group is one thing, but how is sending free money to Palestine, which has a zero strategical and geopolitical value going to make America stronger? Sure that sounds harsh and inhumane, but also we know that is not the money which will solve the palestinien issue, but only UN putting its sanctions towards Israel into actions, create an armed force and do same thing they did in the Balkans. They won't because they don't have neither the funds or the courage. So again, bring back  those wasted dollars  is good for America.

This is not directed at you Sal, but about now I do need to vent.

I want to add "my current thoughts" about the US and not only the Middle-East but make a few stops around the world.

The simple fact is "most" Americans have not been interested in the issues around the globe and the actions taken by our Government. Deep-state warmongers. ((( CFR ))) I hope and pray we are waking-up.

I'm not sure how everything is going to shake-out in all these matters but I am encouraged that this administration is making serious efforts to undo what has been done by the deep-state.
What things?

We have stopped funding the mercenaries in several places. Think White-Helmets, etc.

We are not doing "Fast and Furious" across our land anymore (look that up) and we are shutting down many activities that make profits for the shadow-monsters behind the scenes. Drugs, trafficking, guns, slavery and some more terrible stuff not yet fully known.

Consider: our President has done the "unthinkable according to the real traitors" and met with Chairman Kim and President Putin. Remember HRC and McCain of many, wanted war with Russia!

Did you know, a few world leaders are protecting each other from serious threats? There are things going on that we are not told about. The bad-guys desire/need enemies...correct?

Trump pre-election said he wanted to see NATO gone (the US taxpayer picked up 70 to 90% of that cost) and yet Germany is working with the Russians on that gas pipeline worth Billions??? I doubt NATO will survive and I hope it does not; most Americans think it should have ended in 1991. Most here should know why.

Regarding Israel and Palestine. I do not know where Trump is headed in the M.E. but rumor has it that those missiles were sent after the mercenary's of the DS and not the MSM parakeet fabrications.

Libya was a criminal act and if we do anything there it will only be real aid and not the phony stuff we have been doing...think Haiti, when only a small amount of money reaches the needy people and goes into the pockets of ???.

Israel. This is my personal view but we need to stay the hell out of that region and should have a long time ago.

I do not think any nation's people are 100% behind what is in the MSM.
The country was founded after WWII and I think the way it was done was a serious mistake. Moreover, Britain and France (primarily) have redrawn many nations of today's world.

Israel like other nations has been around now for many decades and there is no undoing of that. Two wrongs cannot make a right. But do all Israelis have expansionist dreams? Of course not, their citizens (taxpayers) are like the rest of us and want to live a life in peace and security.

Fyi, here in American we have a terrible situation where some citizens can hold duel citizenships and if I had my way, each person would have to choose their allegiance and not create some sort of Twin-Nation for their personal ambition and profit. And no nation would be allowed this privilege. Not one and certainly not given Billions of dollars of American taxpayer dollars every year to use as they see fit.

Iran: Billions of American taxpayer dollars handed over, and without the consent and knowledge of the people's Congress? Folks that damned deal was illegal theft and it sure as hell did not go to the Persian People. (It never does, does it?) Folks, please refuse to listen to the MSM and their lies. Btw, How many here knew that it wasn't a one-off and twice a year these enormous sums would need to be sent? Why was the EU so interested in "me and my buddies" being blindly robbed this way??? Make the Connection...we all have to wake up and realize we've all been taken for a ride...to destruction.

End of rant

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Zenofex
Zenofex


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Kreegan-atheist
posted September 02, 2018 09:58 AM
Edited by Zenofex at 10:00, 02 Sep 2018.

Quote:
Talking and doing is antagonistic for EU. The economy is broken, Macron's ministers resign one after another for not receiving the promised funds, retirements savings are challenged, salaries frozen if not on the wane, debt bigger than ever. UK left, even Germany is struggling and the fact that we were not able to respect the NATO 2% GPD engagement for decades shows we just can't do anything without USA filling most of the blanks. Its a fact.
NATO is not a European organization, it's a Cold War remnant which sucks money for imperialistic projects which have nothing to do with the well-being or the EU or many of its individual nations - and most of the Europeans understand that very well. A European defensive organization (a pseudo-version of that already existed by the way)is not viewed the same way - even with a "friendlier" US the majority of the people in the EU asked for more independent foreign policy and you can't have anything even remotely resembling that without some military to back it up. That's not a project which can be completed overnight but even talking about it 20, even 10 years ago would sound ridiculous. The US can manage without NATO in its foreign pursuits but that will cost it way more than if it keeps it intact - just imagine what will happen, from US perspective, if all those eastern flank countries which have been "joined" without any real national consensus and which are all EU members suddenly shift to another defensive alliance. Putin's dream come true.
Quote:
This is not what I was saying, I only said that the taxpayer is harmed when USA sends millions to China or India, without anything in return. So is good for him that this money remains home.
"Without anything in return" doesn't really do justice to the super-cheap products which the US gets because a large portion of their companies have outsourced their production to China. The US consumerism which keeps the country floating instead of sinking will be impossible if the people can't buy stuff and if the prime cost of that stuff is formed, among other things, from US-standard salaries instead of China-standard ones, suddenly the average US buyer will find him/herself not all that able to afford many of the junks he/she otherwise buys.
Quote:
Err, whats the relation?
The relation is that these money will go elsewhere but certainly not back to the poor mistreated taxpayers. To Israel, to ISIS, to Ukraine, to whatever military, para-military or purely terrorist group which can be used for the purposes of the foreign policy. In Palestine's case, that's most likely (not using "certainly" here simply because nothing is ever 100% certain) a successful Zionist move - proven by all other pro-Israeli actions taken by the Trump administration, Iran including.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted September 02, 2018 06:43 PM

markkur said:
Folks, please refuse to listen to the MSM and their lies.


You still have alternatives while here we basically have none except internet randomness. You have best hits Anne Coulter, Dinesh's latest movie, The Daily Wire, Fox, so from CNN/MSM you may switch and get the other side of the coin. I had to command and wait 3 weeks to get Douglas Murray's latest hit, "the strange death of Europe". Best seller during all summer and you have to command it - it is already french translated, doesn't make any sense. When there is a garlanded plethora of totally mediocre foreign books about Russia/USA collusion on all desks right in our eyes, investigation isn't even done and we already know there will be peanuts. Staged.    

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted September 02, 2018 11:05 PM

Let me help you with that: Click
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markkur
markkur


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted September 03, 2018 04:08 PM
Edited by markkur at 16:20, 03 Sep 2018.

Salamandre said:
You still have alternatives while here we basically have none except internet randomness. You have best hits Anne Coulter, Dinesh's latest movie, The Daily Wire, Fox, so from CNN/MSM you may switch and get the other side of the coin. I had to command and wait 3 weeks to get Douglas Murray's latest hit, "the strange death of Europe". Best seller during all summer and you have to command it - it is already french translated, doesn't make any sense. When there is a garlanded plethora of totally mediocre foreign books about Russia/USA collusion on all desks right in our eyes, investigation isn't even done and we already know there will be peanuts. Staged.

Fox only has a couple of voices. iirc the fellow's name...Steve Hilton (newer outsider) and "usually" preppy-man Tucker. Too many "valley-girls" at Fox too. As if everyday men and women next door could not repeat their scripts?

Dinesh is a interesting fellow. A one time Indian that knows and cares more about our Constitution than most of us, me included. He is an example of what all legal immigrants that built this nation were once made of. I had black friends from various nations in Africa that were bright and each had that exact determination...but men and women like that are more the rarity today. Free Everything has that affect on peoples motives and values.

With the larger-filter deployed over the EU, you are at a disadvantage but they are censoring more here too. The fix is easy, "The Internet Bill of Rights" is being discussed here and if we get it...you guys will have a handy new tool to wield.

One of the best developments I have ever seen, is the varied voices of all backgrounds that are uniting behind the Qanon-movement. I follow a Canadian, an Aussie, a Brit, a Greek, a Turk, a Swede and a host of others living here and around the world. I have listened to a great many people from the globe and all desire Truth and demand their voice. WWG1WGA is more than a warm fuzzy feeling. It is needed.

Btw, Alex Jones in some ways is more sensational that the MSM but at least he will cover stuff the MSM will NEVER touch. Honestly, I cannot stand click-bait and he and others are exactly that. However, not that guy, nor any other should be banned from the internet. What Alex does do...is get a few real journalists on his show to give himself more creditability. And he can do that because so many professionals are being muted or blocked and are looking for a visible platform where they can speak freely. A terrible situation that HAS to change. We cannot accept a single robotic voice telling us what is Truth and Real.

But, as you said; something is better than nothing.  

Check this out for an example of what I mean. Because I listen to several black voices (men and women) to "get their pulse", I get new people I've never heard of showing up on the right.

Trump Freezes Federal Employees pay increase!
Link

That young man "tells it like it is" and will he be invited to the MSM? Btw, I supervised dozens of men over many years, and what he says is spot-on. When people are treated as blankets, you get blankets, that cover only what they are made to cover.



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markkur
markkur


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Once upon a time
posted September 04, 2018 07:04 PM

Fyi

Google's true origin
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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
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Kreegan-atheist
posted September 05, 2018 09:33 AM
Edited by Zenofex at 09:37, 05 Sep 2018.

The article says many obvious things and many unverifiable ones but ultimately fails to make a point. We should stop using Google or what? Google is just one of the many convenient tools for surveillance and I wouldn't even rank it in top 3. Nowadays people willingly and carelessly throw information about their personal and professional lives on-line, store data in "clouds" which can basically be anywhere as far as they can tell - including directly on the NSA servers - and unknowingly open thousands of gaps in their digital security just by clicking on links, opening e-mails, installing software or simply browsing certain web-sites. Since the general Internet user has the technical literacy of a baby with an incredibly complex but very funny toy, you don't have to invent conspiracy-theory-scale means to track the activity of such a person - he/she'll usually give you all that you want by him/herself. In this regard Facebook and its likes are much bigger ****hole than Google. Regardless, when it comes to *real* intelligence targeted at *real* threats to some state's national security, the situation becomes much more complex and thinking that you can use Google to find terrorists is borderline absurd. Only the most illiterate, stupid and careless Internet users would expose their activities to public search engines, social media and so on if they are planning something nasty. All that said, Google will not help the NSA get into your home any more than you will help the NSA yourself by doing all sorts of careless stuff on-line.

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markkur
markkur


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Once upon a time
posted September 05, 2018 04:05 PM
Edited by markkur at 16:17, 05 Sep 2018.

Actually it is old news but I thought it might be good for folks to understand the origin.

Conspiracy Theory is a worn-out-phrase that means nothing today. Every time people try to get the Truth is a good thing.  
-------------------------------------
@All

Then followed "Our Patriot Act" and it was ALL about catching whatever for our safety? No, it has been a gigantic vending-machine for Private Corporations making money on what should never have been allowed to access.

Instead systems where once upon a time we had to opt-in, but with today's Corp-control for decades now, we have to opt-out but none of that matters anyway - because they do want they please because so many make their living off "The Information Age".

And another thing about massive companies beholding to nobody; Monopolies are rampant here in the states and kept that way. Google, U-Tube, Twitter, Wal-Mart and Amazon did not become what they are today without a hell of a lot of manipulation in Government and Business.

It is a fact the our Congress has been full of what once upon a time was called "insider-trading" only now it is more often swindles and phony dummy-holding-companies, start-ups etc.

Allowing or fostering the old rip-off..."Cornering the Market" has always been theft in the long run behind no-competition and dictate.

I just learned, that Ireland??? has been a hot Tax-haven? Investigate that and while you're at it check out what Washington D.C. the City of London, Vatican City and a few other "cities" around the world, all have in in common.

Btw, A question for anyone here. Do you believe China became what it has today without the GREED-Machine in the West?


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