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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: "Both Sides Against the Middle"
Thread: "Both Sides Against the Middle" This thread is 9 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 · «PREV / NEXT»
JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 06, 2018 03:03 PM

markkur said:
JollyJoker said:
Dude, don't you know nothing?

Save me some time mate. Has whatever you've linked happened since he has been President?
The list is from November 2017.

The main point of it isn't about Trump, but about the voters, preferring someone like him over a strong woman - or, if you have reservations against her as well, rather chose him than one of the two other candidates.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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Undefeatable Hero
posted September 06, 2018 03:10 PM

Salamandre said:
Someone needs to check the meaning of "allegation" and compare with "condemnation".

And let me ask you one thing, how come that ALL reports about his behaving on this or that came out only in 2016, while some are as old as decades? Give a rest.

Look, you said a post ago:

Quote:
there is no proof whatsoever about his "creepiness" towards women except anonymous reports AFTER he became Potus. And now, some "anonymous report" from the cousin of the wife of the white house cook, probably. It amazes me why you guys just can't let it go, you have nothing but fantasy, let the man do his job and show some respect.
And it was very simple to prove you wrong.

Sure, you don't like to be proven wrong, but that's what happens when you write crap. You should be used to it by now.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


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Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted September 06, 2018 03:10 PM

JollyJoker said:
The list is from November 2017.


lol

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verriker
verriker


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Armagerwin's Blade
posted September 06, 2018 03:23 PM

as I mentioned though you can't talk your way around trump by constantly pointing fingers at someone else because of reality, he's a very poor hill to die on if you support human dignity because it leads to making bizarre or absurd deflections, dragging one into his pussy grabbing worldview lol

at the end of the day you cannot troll and not be trolled back so I do not blame the US press too much if they will take an unruly attitude, of course though there are serious problems with the press as everywhere (not helped by the have your cake and eat it nature of the audience, who do not pay for good journalism, because they cannot afford to pay, because of ******* enormous wealth inequality which trump is thankfully correcting with the trade war) lol

did you investigate the Quanon thing you're talking about in the last pages, it seems to be an elaborate 4chan troll theory which has suckered in the republican base in the US to take it seriously lol
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markkur
markkur


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Once upon a time
posted September 06, 2018 04:22 PM
Edited by markkur at 16:23, 06 Sep 2018.

verriker said:
did you investigate the Quanon thing you're talking about in the last pages, it seems to be an elaborate 4chan troll theory which has suckered in the republican base in the US to take it seriously lol

Man, you guys really think I AM some sort of Psy-OP. Btw, as a Dad I did Psy-Ops on my kids i.e. when I told them to look both ways before crossing the street and informed them they could be hit by a car if they did not. Cruel stuff.

Of course I've looked into Qanon mate and have nearly since last November. My Princess is an avid follower so she does the work and I follow along...here and there.

The truth is for a very long time, it has been 8-chan only where wild-west discussions are had; and there are all sorts there and for very different reasons; like all public-medias. Think HOMM

From my POV the whole "Value" of the ongoing exercise has been to investigate issues that have been bypassed by the MSM. i.e. Qanon told us about the process of North Korea peace talks long before it hit the news. And further, whenever the MSM covered Singapore it was in attack mode and doom and gloom.  

I'm not trying to convert anyone here but I do know what I've witnessed. In the end, I've listened to all sorts of people from all walks of life, meet and discuss the info this entire year. Are there crackpots in this movement...of course. It has been my experience, you have a nutjobs in all groups, parties, or opposing sides of most anything that has anything whatsoever to do with Humans being human.

Fyi. what did I discover, that what ever Qanon is, whether a small group or one man or woman etc. the "Open-Questions" that have been consistently given, has lead to a lot of people around the world researching topics on all sorts of issues. How the hell is that a bad thing? So many people here claim to be Objective and yet are as dyed in the wool as those they combat. No common-ground allowed!

As, I have stated. I've witnessed a UNI-Party here in the USA, that has disregarded the average citizen for decades. I cannot speak on other nations but I've seen what I have seen here in real time.

Reagan, Bush Sr, Clinton, Bush Jr. and Obama and all played basically played for same war-mongering-team and to varying degrees....period and the MSM has been BS the whole progression and given us "theater" and sensational brain-drain by their so-called coverage. Consider the recent picture where all living presidents going back to Carter pose for the camera?! Wth? I listened to endless hours of these so-called leaders hating and ripping each other (supposedly) over many years and Also saw at the same time...pictures where they were as chummy as chummy gets behind the cameras.

For grins, consider, years back, a very popular political show in your neck of the woods: Yes Minister and the follow-up, Yes Prime Minister. Nothing truly funny about satirizing the reality of our elected officials? Where the script that we all laughed at, are in reality..."their business as usual." I assume you know the programs but if not, if you want tragic hilarity than you will probably enjoy them, like many of us have, myself included, before I began to care about our children's future - whether you have any or not.
____________
"Do your own research"

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Zenofex
Zenofex


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Kreegan-atheist
posted September 06, 2018 04:47 PM

Quote:
I think you are mixing up two things here. "Tax evasion" as in not declaring an income (or capital gain) is a crime and every state or nation is intent on bringing offenders to justice and make sure they get the taxes that were ILLEGALLY withhold (basically by not declaring them, washing them, smuggling them into another country and so on).

However, the post I answered to was about "tax havens", and THEY are not illegal and depend on whether you are living there and so on and are as such everything I said they are.
Tax havens are nothing more than legal tax evasions, that's why I used the latter - maybe not in terminologically correct way but the point stands. I'm well aware of the difference.
Quote:
However, you are also wrong about rich and poor here. The only question is, whether you need to work at a specific place or not and whether you are a worker who gets wages or a salary (in which case you have to pay wage taxes in the country wou work, which are deducted before you get your paycheck), or whether you don't and pay INCOME tax.

For example, I am basically my own employer and have to pay income tax as well, but since I don't have to be at a certain location for my work I can chose which land I want to live in and could in theory pick a country with lower income taxes, if that was my desire.

In the bigger picture, when you think about corporations operating in different countries it's clear that there ARE legal ways to keep taxes to a minimum, depending on where you declare what, because depending on where you are conditions are different, whether we are talking about production costs or taxes to pay. For example, you are the CEO of a corp, and you live in Monaco (are registered there), but the corp has its main office in Britain. So they will deduct your payment as expenses from net income, while you will pay the taxes for it not in Britain, but less in Monaco.

All perfectly legal and a result of a worldwide "market" with regionally different conditions.

It's completely irrelevant what is legal here because we are talking about the economic angle, "legal" is just what a given state has sanctioned as acceptable at a given time and as you know from the history of your own country "legal" hardly translates into "right" automatically. And nobody's talking about multinational corporations working in different countries and paying different taxes in each one of them, that has nothing to do with tax havens and their usage to take tax money which are due to one country to another country with lower taxes. There was a a report several years ago and subsequent such reports more recently about the losses to various host countries inflicted by such legal tax smuggling. These money don't disappear but they are not invested in the host country's economy or any other economy in case their owners decide to "stash" them - which they CAN do completely legally and they do it. So much about the "world economy". When a very small minority can afford to do whatever it wants with more money than the foreign debt of the US while the countries in which they (or rather other people working for them) produce this wealth are often plagued by unemployment, poverty among certain classes and all other issues associated with these, that should really tell you that something's just designed to work in favour of a specific social stratum instead of everyone's favour.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted September 06, 2018 07:11 PM

If you do not pay taxes, but smuggle money into, say Switzerland, you have broken the law. This is illegal.

If you pay taxes for the money you earned, you payed your taxes, and the remaining money is yours to do with it what you want (if it's legal). You can put it on any bank that accepts it, to any condition, and in case the bank is offering you an interest rate on it, the bank must do something with the money to earn that interest rate (and more than that because of its own expenses).

If you do that in, say, Germany, you have to pay a flat 25% taxes on the gain via interest rate. This is different per country, and that's all there is to it.

The actual problem has nothing to do with taxes, but with the fact that few people have most everything. But, hey, it's capitalism, so what do you expect? It's all about profit, nothing new there.

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Zenofex
Zenofex


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Kreegan-atheist
posted September 07, 2018 08:39 AM

It has everything to do with taxes though, because you leak money out of one economy by avoiding the higher tax rate all the while you operate in that economy to earn the money. The typical mortal who works for living doesn't do that (and can't do it realistically) and pays his full taxes in the host country. Yeah, it's capitalism, but I still expect people to use their heads every once in a while, especially when they are told that "there's no money" for something.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted September 07, 2018 09:10 AM

That's not the problem, because it cannot be solved. What you do with your money is your personal decision, and if a person can operate globally, then that person can also move their money. It's necessary to operate on an international level.

Capitalism doesn't need that surplus money in the actual situation, because money is dirt-cheap. Interest rates being as low as they are, lending money is a slow business. Same way as your average Joe doesn't get any money out of their however meagre bank savings, same way the Suisse or other banks must somehow invest the money of their clients to earn money.
So sure, if you have a billion on a bank account, you may still make a 5 millions out of it on interest rate alone - but in the 70s and even 80s you could have made 100 million out of that money.

The problem is pretty easy to see; just imagine different tax rates in different parts of one and the same country. Or phrased more theoretical: the problem is that NATIONS are in competition with each other as well (and have different economic goals, obviously).

What would probably solve that problem is a global state capitalism the way China does it - or maybe, if you like that better, Vietnam - which actually translates to the same rules everywhere and limitations on individual wealth, but obviously you need to bring the world on roughly the same level (for example, considering the logistics necessary), and we are a far cry from that.

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Zenofex
Zenofex


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Kreegan-atheist
posted September 07, 2018 04:58 PM

It can be solved in numerous ways, like introducing legislation that demands you to pay the local taxes in full before you transfer any money abroad - in which case you won't really have the incentive to use tax havens. You make money in some country, you pay the taxes to that country. Or enforcing tax payment checks whenever you want to do a bank transaction somewhere outside of the local jurisdiction. It's not the lack of possibilities that's the problem, it's the lack of will to enforce them because government usually works for the wealthy first.

Global state capitalism is even more unlikely than global communism because capitalism generates and thrives in inequality.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted September 07, 2018 05:41 PM

Those laws are already in place, at least in some countries (I don't know whether it's the case everywhere), but it doesn't gain anything, because you pay taxes only on profits, and you can easily manipulate the balance, the bigger and more multi-national your undertakings are, into being taxed for profits in a friendly country.

And, as I said, there is competetion between countries as well.

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Zenofex
Zenofex


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Kreegan-atheist
posted September 08, 2018 08:38 AM

"Manipulating" the balance leans to the category of strictly illegal tax evasion. You keep thinking in terms of corporations while tax haven "stashes" which suck money out of certain economies are used as such by individuals who accumulate their wealth on country A but move it to country B because they pay less taxes in the latter. There are a lot of tools which allow that, bank secrecy included, so to my knowledge there is no successful legislation which protects a country from money leaks to tax havens - the opposite however is even encouraged. So, again, the reason is not that it's "impossible" but that people are actually content and don't care as long as most of them are decently fed (always forgetting that this won't last forever). That's especially true for the "middle class".

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted September 08, 2018 08:57 AM

The reason is, that there are different tax rates. Period. Opportunity makes the thief - and in this case you don't even need to be one. If you are, you are just unnecessarily greedy.

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markkur
markkur


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Once upon a time
posted September 13, 2018 08:05 PM

After this, I’m done mates. For what it’s worth, I recently quit my last on-line participation and then made this detour, because I think I needed to make this effort before heading into public retirement. If one person gained something? It was well worth my effort.


The Sell-Out in the USA explained

Consider; if we now look back at many historical legislative enactments of new Laws or adjustments to old Laws passed in the Congress, when we bother to research, they are a purposed nightmare of “legalese” and often many important issues are buried in every Bill that dons only one Name. This has been standard practice (generally unopposed or unknown by the People) here in the US congress for many decades now. The legitimate-outrage from our citizens when they “once upon a time” decried “Pork-barrel spending” has came and went inside the public arena; most citizens are completely ignorant of how this government has been working against them. (fringe spending for a select group is a greedy bribe and never for ALL of our citizens) The idea of a “line-item veto” also would have never “surfaced & sank” below the watery depths of usurped representational government, if our elected representatives had actually went to both the Senate & The House of Representatives and only served the American people, inside a Congress assembled only for the interest of all legal-American citizens.

* In 1989 a Senate bill was passed that allowed sitting presidents to enjoy much greater leeway in regards to personal gains while being president. This change was brought about by Bush senior just before Bill Clinton was elected. Note two things here: (1) that the elder Bush once said he considered Bill Clinton like a son? (2) Bill’s wife stated that when the pair left Arkansas behind them to go to D.C. they were broke? Look at how much money BOTH would go on to make for themselves over the following long years. This is NOT politics, split into Political ideas, etc. it has always been greedy-minded men and women pretending differences in the public view, while working together to subvert our representational government and the representation of peoples across this planet.
* There were two very important changes that happened during the Clinton administration. (1) NAFTA and the bill set in motion a Globalist-agenda to defy national borders and make trade-deals where major multi-national corporations could make deals between themselves on how the utilize people all over the world and have no deterrents to their plans. These huge companies owed no allegiance to any nation and escaped all public oversight from within any nation.
(2) Next came “utilizing” Communist China first and foremost.
This communist nation was made part of the World Trade Organization. Now consider, what this meant to the 1% of the 1%? Supposed “Western Democracies” (actually just bankers and CEOs) wanted to do business with a communist government? Imagine this happening with the Soviet Union; would that government have collapsed? Of course not.

Now why did our presidents ever since...continue with this Usurpation? Because all of them would profit and enrich the special interests behind their thrones (deep state, shadow-gov, elites) would make huge profits behind their controlled global economy. Many leaders inside China were very happy to make deals with these people because they were of the same mind-set, seeking Greed and Control of the masses.

I need to keep my overview very simple and therefore must bypass a very great many issues that have not been addressed to this day. What these betrayals set in motion was the dismantling of the American taxpayer, by the following method.
1. They put the average US worker against workers in a totalitarian regime.  Private owned industries here against STATE-owned industries there. Hang out there and reflect.
2. They had us in continual wars, draining the coffers of the citizens.
3. They allowed banking free reign over investments and through illegal methods, took citizen wealth and added to their corporations.
4. They concluded global deals bypassing costly regulations and Unions here in the states, to maximize profits from anywhere in the world where they could make their greedy bargains.
5. Corporations infiltrated our armed-forces and all aspects of Conflict. Private armies and Intel.
6. Privately held Non-Governmental Agencies (NGOs) became involved with issues around the world.
7. Corporations entered in our Intelligence Agencies and also funded non-elected bureaucratic-groups to pull-the-strings behind the scenes and populated our congressional oversight committees.
8. Oligarchs were included into this global control, covering all profit sectors.
9. Election control of candidates and voting systems across the world.
10. Maximization of City-States (DC & City of London etc.) for their banking laws and use of arranged off-shore tax-havens that shielded these enormous sums from the citizens of all governments.
11. Then they did away with borders in the EU and secretly in North America and demanded the bewildered citizens pay for NGO-shuffling of migrants fleeing “their wars” into targeted host nations.
12. They divide the masses behind Race, Sex, Ethnicity, Religion and Politics and always separate the citizens of each nation to keep them raging behind on-line filtering, lies & deceptions. Corruption is not only with Oligarchs in Russia, China, the EU, the Middle-East or you name the place; it is decades deep in the United States of American and today, an internal battle is happening as I write this opinion.
13. On and on, the “Tool of the of this corrupt-group”, the MSM, covers little about all of this but what the deep-state pays them to say. To question anything they push - makes you a conspiracy theorist.

The savings of the average American people has indeed been gutted to pay for many issues around the world but I need to make something very clear; this fact has only happened because “We the People” let this happen; we collectively “dropped-out.” However. worse soon followed, because of our laziness and indifference in demanding our laws and our Constitution be strictly followed; we allowed these same corrupt entities their freedom, while denying our own rights, to spread and plunder, not only ourselves and our futures but all the hard-working men and women in most nations around the world.

Many people yet need to wake and realize, this group, whatever term you define it, cares nothing about the folks around the globe; everything is about their wealth, their interest, their families and their power. None of us have mattered for far too long a time and that started in my own back-yard.
The world is not perfect anywhere but <imo> what we have allowed to happen here in the USA, has made life much more difficult for peoples in many other countries.

I want to add one last very important issue under direct threat today and it is freedom of speech and the right to have differing opinions. I have no way of knowing how many here think that the attack on our President is justified but it is NOT justified and it IS part of the same old crap I have laid-out above. The “haves” do not want change...period and they will lie all the way to “their banks” all day and every day. Fyi, I have witnessed “many” platforms taken down over the last few months and they were merely talking about what NEEDS to be discussed and debated. With the exception of Alex Jones, (because I have no need to follow someone that is clearly about sensationalism and profit) I have not seen any hatred or calls to violence by any media persons or groups that I have followed but I “have witnessed people being attacked and then taken-down.” The problem folks, is people outside of the MSM talking-points, will speak about issues that are not their Narrative and counters their collective-disinformation. These “actions of control” are not being taken against nazi-like voices, but instead are taken by Nazi-like-state apparatus, wielding international corporate-control, that willfully silences all dissenting voices that would rationally represent each of us. A growing number of people simply desire to read & hear Truth alone and hope to one day enjoy real Peace around this world; where taxation is used to construct a better future for us all.

Make it Great everyone

Peace

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verriker
verriker


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Armagerwin's Blade
posted September 13, 2018 08:21 PM

btw is it true that only 3000 Puerto Rico people died in the Hurricane Maria, I heard that the deep state were saying it was many more cheers lol
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markkur
markkur


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Once upon a time
posted September 14, 2018 03:28 PM

verriker said:
btw is it true that only 3000 Puerto Rico people died in the Hurricane Maria, I heard that the deep state were saying it was many more cheers lol

After all that I have outlined here in this thread and you choose to discuss CNN?

<imvho> You'd do much better to stay nearer to home and listen to Tommy Robinson's interview after his release from prison...and with an open mind. Just do it, for the non-fun of it.



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verriker
verriker


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Armagerwin's Blade
posted September 14, 2018 03:55 PM

markkur said:
After all that I have outlined here in this thread and you choose to discuss CNN?


bear in mind I am not the American so I am different to you, why will I discuss or care CNN when I don't watch it,

I have heard in research that the deep state claim way more than 3000 people died in the Puerto Rico hurricane while Trump says it was only 3000, I personally agree it was 3000 but who is the Truth, how do we fight with the deeps state if they will even gaslight and lie us about a True death toll in the hurricane cheers lol
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blob2
blob2


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Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted September 14, 2018 05:05 PM
Edited by blob2 at 18:14, 14 Sep 2018.

markkur said:
12. They divide the masses behind Race, Sex, Ethnicity, Religion and Politics and always separate the citizens of each nation to keep them raging behind on-line filtering, lies & deceptions. Corruption is not only with Oligarchs in Russia, China, the EU, the Middle-East or you name the place; it is decades deep in the United States of American and today, an internal battle is happening as I write this opinion.


Well, watching USA from a distance I can't quite tell how it's really like there, but there is one thing that bothers me while I read about various 'incidents'. I think it will ultimately lead to something bad. And I mean 'facism' level bad. The so called political correctness.

Recently I've read about this: https://www.reddit.com/r/SargonofAkkad/comments/901nml/a_store_of_fire_and_dice_banned_from_selling/.

In short: a shop that selled MtG related products had its license revoked because someone posted a picture of a supposedly intolerant version of MtG's manifesto, which isn't even 100% trustworthy (it could've very well have been a troll). Then, someone posted a picture of something called 'Kekistan flag' sticker in the shop, a meme creation which, as it turns out, is identified as a KKK symbol. Without so much as an investigation MtG bigwigs (which are under Wizards of the Coast) revoked his license, probably forfeiting the guys business cus MtG was a big part of his income. A guy who's got nothing to do with racism (he even has a wife of asian decent) has it hard, because a group of Social Justice Warriors s*itstormed Twitter with rage posts, thus triggering MtG officials rash overreaction.

Not to mention the whole "caricature of Serena Williams' incident which stirs the States atm. Anyone who doesn't react with #metoo or #thatisracist is labeled insensitive scum. While Williams was simply being rude.

Or the whole James Gunn incident (an SJW uncovered some age-old Twitter posts that ultimately lead to his expulsion from Disney and uncertain future of the Guardians of Galaxy 3 movie). It was out of context, and like, 10-years old, but it was enough for Disney do discard the guy, who generated so much money for them.

Seriously, how does this differ from ordering you what you must think, speak and react to. Like in some totalitarian regime. I'm scared. Because America has influence on almost everything this will probably come with grater force into my country at some point (now I only see it within some articles and social media reactions). UE is already full of this and the "big" countries want others to comply, my country included.


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fred79
fred79


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SCOURGE OF THE H-SEA
posted September 14, 2018 07:17 PM
Edited by fred79 at 19:31, 14 Sep 2018.

That sjw snow is part of their program: divide and conquer. Make more and more language/content/action "unacceptable", and push more and more outrage, and you'll continually split people up(a weakened/divided/ignorant mass is an easier-controlled mass). Normalize sjw behavior and have people bend to it, and you are well on your way to creating a "1984" society(it's already on near thought-crime level). It is quickly becoming a reality.

Just think: a C.o.C. for society, where everyone is a potential mod; as long as they're part of the program. Neat, huh? And since most people are with the program like a legion of trained monkeys(or have tied themselves to society's leg irons by having a family you'd have to worry about if you suddenly stopped going to work(aka keeping the rich, rich)), nothing is going to stop them from furthering their agenda. And, because they now have eyes(cameras) and ears(microphones) everywhere(not to mention the human element; those aforementioned trained monkeys), and have burrowed into the rotten legal system like a hagfish; any un-unified act against them can be counted/portrayed/displayed as an illegal(even traitorous, because that's now their law, too) destructive act. And what's more, they'll be able to see any opposition coming, because of both the aforementioned eyes/ears/monkeys; AND the surveillance/intel sector. Which is rampant af, btw.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted September 14, 2018 08:02 PM

blob2 said:
the whole "caricature of Serena Williams' incident which stirs the States atm.


Black people constantly complaining and pointing their finger at others is going out of hand. Build first a city which survives centuries, or a successful society from where millions are not fleeing toward white countries while ripping each other on the way. Then and only then we discuss if what keeps you behind is racism and not laziness and unproductive victimhood culture. In Serena's case it is even more outrageous, because even with her uncontested qualities she could not achieve 1/1000 of what she achieved if she was living in a black country. She lost any decency for bringing the race card, then the gender one on the top.

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