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Heroes Community > Volcanic Wastelands > Thread: Share an unpopular opinion
Thread: Share an unpopular opinion This thread is 17 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 · «PREV / NEXT»
blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted September 08, 2018 11:20 AM

artu said:
My objection wasnt in reference to any immigration policy.


Maybe so. But immigration leads to a clash of cultures, the topics are interwined.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 08, 2018 12:56 PM

So? The USA have been an immigration country the whole time, cultures clashing to no end...

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Neraus
Neraus


Promising
Legendary Hero
Pizza Nazi
posted September 08, 2018 01:12 PM

blob2 said:
Zenofex said:
Conclusion - barbarians with Internet beat civilized folk without Internet.

I wouldn't call Romans civilized. Just highly advanced in their timeline...


Don't you dare! They washed their asses and had rights and laws, they were much more civilized than most countries today!
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Herry
Herry


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
100% Devil
posted September 08, 2018 02:43 PM

They washed their asses using a stick and a sponge. Or for poorer people, their hands. Quite civilized, I see.
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Neraus
Neraus


Promising
Legendary Hero
Pizza Nazi
posted September 08, 2018 04:43 PM

I know right? Like those Arabs slathering sand all over there when no water is available. Who even knows what the northerners did.

I mean, today they use paper and they call it a day. Brutes I say, the behind needs a washin'!
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fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
SCOURGE OF THE H-SEA
posted September 08, 2018 07:05 PM

Neraus said:
I know right? Like those Arabs slathering sand all over there when no water is available. Who even knows what the northerners did.


They used unshorn sheep. Later, some guy more intelligent than the others realized they could just remove the wool. Hence, washcloths were born.

The More You Know...

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EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted September 08, 2018 07:59 PM

Wearing nail polish, perfume and all sorts of cosmetics makes you uglier, both on inside and outside.
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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted September 08, 2018 10:08 PM

EnergyZ said:
Wearing nail polish, perfume and all sorts of cosmetics makes you uglier, both on inside and outside.


Now, THAT is an unpopular opinion indeed ... because, I can't conceive that a woman doesn't have long, nicely-manicured nails, and doesn't wear makeup and lipstick AT THE VERY LEAST. I'm not even going to mention stripper heals, long hair, anklets and dresses / skirts because I might look creepier than I sound (please note that I've said "sound", not "am", because I'm not creepy, even if I sound like that)

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Herry
Herry


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
100% Devil
posted September 08, 2018 11:04 PM

I agree with EnergyZ about the nail polish. Perfume and other things are fine though, as long as it's not one kilogram of cosmetics.
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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 08, 2018 11:25 PM

Jet fuel can't melt steel beams.

Or should that be in reverse? Fred, need some clarification.
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NoobX
NoobX


Promising
Legendary Hero
posted September 09, 2018 01:19 AM

What Are You Thinking Now is basically Random Thoughts lite.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted September 09, 2018 06:16 AM

artu said:
Contitents are not cultures, there are many cultures within both Europe and Africa, even if we round them up and say something like “yes, but all cultures in Europe share a tolerance and legal/social freedom compared to all cultures in Africa in a collective sense,” it would still be a wrong analysis.


The very reason culture differences (and specific flaws) are being discussed nowadays is precisely because cultures are not only continent based - there is no pure coincidence if a majority of white countries share same values - but also layered around pragmatic levels: genetic, ethnic, IQ based, medium age of population, gender, religion, we could uncover more if it ONLY we were allowed to talk and think about. Sure, culture, as one's set of values, is dynamic and thus complex. It is fluid rather than static, which means that culture changes all the time, every day, in subtle and tangible ways. It also heavily depends and blossom upon international exchanges, THIS is why it was continent based - when traveling was impossible - for the longest part of our past and that concrete heritage is difficult to alter.  

artu said:
First of all, only a hundred years ago, it was the same in Europe everywhere, was “the European culture” entirely something else back then? Europeans also claimed things like “gays should be punished” or “men are superior to women” or “heretics should be penalized.”


Absolutely, we had a heck of burden to fight. BUT also, a core difference: at same moment, Europeans were at the top of the social sciences, world knowledge, history, arts and so. There was nowhere to turn and learn from, compare then enhance, take as model. They had to find their own way by struggling, turn to self criticism, go through genocides, wars and injustice. Then eventually emerge as the leading civilization they are today.

This is NOT the case now, african and black societies have a clear view and understanding on what worked best in order to evolve, they can learn from, get help and prosper. Some do it, but we can't hide for ever and just not see that majorly is NOT going well and certainly not in the right direction. If it was the case, we wouldn't have full populations move towards white countries, as simple as that. African culture is very hermetic to others, while constantly asking others to integrate and celebrate it. That can't go for ever, it must become two ways.

artu said:
if urban culture is dominant, it even starts to transform the rural areas, where as in countries where rural values still rule, they even hold back the urban areas.


I understand this but not buy. Urban achievements and wealth are created by cultural density and collective dream, not viceversa. You move people from Harlem into Palm Beach, Palm Beach will regress to Harlem level in no time. The African immigrants burned to ground the modern infrastructures they got for free after moving into Europe. How is it to live in majorly immigrant town and find your car in pieces when you wake up for work, again and again? They say no one wants to live there because it is poor area, but also they do everything to keep it poor and unhealthy. This is pragmatism, and if it shocks some they should remove the poo from their eyes because there is NO other way to find how to work together if you consider such issues as taboo.

artu said:
This is not the only factor, of course, it is never that simple. For instance, Islam is indeed a much more negative factor than Christianity when it comes to such issues


Islam is difficult to apprehend, but it does not use other tricks than Christianity used times ago. The only question is cultural, they will have to resort to self criticism and find what is not working. The difficulty however is bigger, Christianity doesn't bow other than to human interpretation, while the Koran is known to be the word of God himself, not modifiable. So far, is not working.

JollyJoker said:
So? The USA have been an immigration country the whole time, cultures clashing to no end...


So they got Trump. And Brexit, Salvinio, Sahra Wagenknecht, Sebastian Kurz and many others to come. This is how things evolve if you keep shrugging "so what?". People want a home, not an arena to fight daily.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted September 09, 2018 07:49 AM

Yes, it is not a coincidence but I can assure you it isnt based on “genetics” but history. You do realize that “white” isnt even a scientific category right, there are hundreds of hablo groups and mithocondrial mutations, constantly mixing among each other, yet you seem to be speaking from the times of Blumenbach.

And I’m kind of confused (literally, no sarcasm), you first say “it’s cultural, not racial or national” and now you seem to speak as if that cultures are racially distinct? So, are they based (or at least influenced) by race or not, does race struct them and what is this race even? Why didnt Romania achieve much compared to Britain or Germany through the perspective of this categorization? And what is so wrong with today’s Harlem? It is not like some constant war zone or anything: Today in Harlem.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted September 09, 2018 08:32 AM

The "scientific evidence" about races (also gender and sexuality) is politically biased and follows strict agenda, otherwise the world would be burning. It buried all IQ studies, deliberately ignoring statistics, history then manipulates public opinion by pushing mumbo-jumbo scientific language, so people feel too dumb to come with basic and obvious questions. Don't get me wrong, I understand where that goes and I believe in equality of opportunities and rights for all - regardless race, gender and sexuality - ALSO equality and sharing of responsibility, but at this moment I consider the whole discussion being too strongly one sided, so not worth debating as there is no alternative data available.

You say "not genetics, but history", what that ever means? History is the sum of facts, but facts are done by who? And when I say genetic, it is only a tiny parameter, a small part of the equation.

As about Romania or other less industrialized European countries: pursuing economic, societal and scientific research is expensive, resources speaking and not accessible to every country, especially tiny countries, often razed and pillaged by their neighbors expansions. But how is Romania, Bulgaria, Poland and others different from UK, France, Germany, culturally speaking? You don't have ethnic polish or romanian enclaves, asking for specific accommodations, pushing the victimization agenda, raising crime levels beyond acceptable and so. They basically flow into. This is what homogeneous culture means to me.

artu said:
And what is so wrong with today’s Harlem? It is not like some constant war zone or anything


oh come on, I was giving an example, I could have said Detroit for the same purpose. I don't even need to show why, just do a search on crime level, most dangerous places in USA and you're done. Then up to you to see beyond the lines, but well, hard habits don't change easy...

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted September 09, 2018 09:04 AM
Edited by artu at 09:07, 09 Sep 2018.

Actually, nothing is "burned" and you can easily reach studies showing there are IQ level differences between countries on average. Yet, the variation is not a gap in the sense it becomes distinctive, meaning there are enough people smarter, even in countries with the lowest average compared to countries with highest average. In short, it is still the individual you have to evaluate. Nothing is also burned when it comes to gender, men seem to have more geniuses and idiots but on the average curve, we meet with women. None of this is hidden or anything, anybody can google it within a matter of minutes.


History, not genetics means this: There are points in history when cultural hubs, places that peak in achievement come to life. Ancient Egypt is one of the oldest, then you have the Babylonians and through that you have Ancient Greece. And then you have Rome, Enlightenment Europe etc. Now, the how and when is a result of many circumstances, climate and geography play a role (much more crucial in the past, but for instance, Mid-Africa's unbearable heat and moist is still a very negative factor,) trade routes, famines, even "the little things" such as a dynasty of kings with a line of mental illness or somebody inventing a new way to forge steel, etc. Now, the thing about hubs is that they pass the shift too quickly in terms of biological difference. When Baghdat was the closest thing to world's cultural capitol, people were living like cavemen in Amsterdam, just about a thousand years ago. When Egyptians were building the pyramids, the Saxons were hunting rabbits with sticks... Again, five minutes ago in biological scales.

In the U.S., yes, there are still crime rate differences between neighborhoods but there are also "neat" neighborhoods belonging to all sorts of ethnic minorities, so your "reading beyond (you mean between) the lines" is flawed as usual, but old habits die hard indeed.            
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 09, 2018 09:36 AM

Aren't you guys miss the point here? Religion? The great religions are all made by men for men and as much as everyone may stare in awe at the art of enlightened Europe - the artists are all MEN. The history of humankind might well be seen under the aspect of oppression of women.

Going from that it's no happenstance that secularization and equality of the sexes has been going hand in hand - THAT is the progress the "West" has made.

And THAT is the main problem, when it comes to cultural differences, nowadays. How equal the sexes are, and there's obviously a connection with fundamental religiousness and secularization. There can basically be no cultural "mixing" between human groups that treat half of their members like slaves and human groups that treat everyone equal; the differences are too big.

However. Our constitutions grant religious freedom to everyone. We are basically in the Roman Empire situation of giving Caesar what is Caesar's and "Gods" (whoever is worshipped) what is that specific god's. Privately everyone can do what they want as long as no one complains, while in public you have to abide to the law.

In my opinion, the "tolerant" states will simply have to enforce the existing laws better and protect their members in order to allow the oppressed to "break out" - but break out THEY must do.

In other words, if we accept members of that culture we are basically in the after-Cicil-War situation of the US. Make sure that crimes against the equality laws are punished accordingly, religion or not, and take responsibility to uphold the values of our society.

Still more pronounced: it's entirely OUR fault for doing these things half-assed.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted September 09, 2018 09:48 AM

I wouldnt call my or his position missing the point but yes, the women issue is crucial and it affects every other social aspect.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted September 09, 2018 10:20 AM

Cultural values as family too. Black single motherhood raised from 20% to 70% since 1960 yet it is never discussed as a failed cultural aspect, as it should be. Ben Shapiro on the topic.

And artu, IQ's studies I was talking about were not about "countries" differences but races. See, you just can't admit the word "race", is a taboo for you, like slipping on evil's side. All I say is let the market of ideas free to flow and debate on facts, anything, no matter how some could be offended by. If you leave that aspect to unverifiable underground alternatives as social platforms, the result will look much uglier. This is not flawed thinking.
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted September 09, 2018 10:51 AM

Dude, race you speak in the sense, does not exist, this is not my taboo. There are racial aspects of course, haplogroups and so on but mostly everybody is so mixed and it is such a scramble, trying to attach qualifications to races would be like painting on water. I have linked direct maps and graphs about this in the past so many times, all of them pass you by like they don't exist and then you say you just want to speak about facts. Oh, and by the way, let us assume that, there is indeed a study that say sub-saharan gene groups have 10 IQ points less than others on average, how does that have any crucial effect on anything we speak of? There are much bigger gaps among all people, the variation and distribution of IQ among the gene pools of homo sapiens are not on a level that would cause civilizational gaps, not even close. Biologically, we are one race (hence the term, human race), this is not political correctness, this is positive science and it would be nice if you realize not everybody who states such simple information are political correctness zombies.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted September 09, 2018 11:13 AM

artu said:
Oh, and by the way, let us assume that, there is indeed a study that say sub-saharan gene groups have 10 IQ points less than others on average, how does that have any crucial effect on anything we speak of?


Actually is 30 IQ points less and we were speaking about african culture compared to ours - because hey, when we are told we have to accept millions coming in I think is the right moment to raise some valid questions, then you said is not genetic at all, but "history" so I had to step back on earth and talk about some facts. But I agree, IQ is not at all representative about human value. However it has to do with how far a society can evolve, thus with income, job performance and career path, fertility rate, crime and incarceration rates, happiness and life satisfaction, health and rates of disease, life expectancy, rates of marriage and divorce, whether a woman will have children out of wedlock, and welfare use. There are undeniable facts about IQ, and ignoring them is having disastrous effects on societies.
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