Heroes of Might and Magic Community
visiting hero! Register | Today's Posts | Games | Search! | FAQ/Rules | AvatarList | MemberList | Profile


Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
[X] Remove Ads
LOGIN:     Username:     Password:         [ Register ]
HOMM1: info forum | HOMM2: info forum | HOMM3: info mods forum | HOMM4: info CTG forum | HOMM5: info mods forum | MMH6: wiki forum | MMH7: wiki forum
Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: Missing creature specialists
Thread: Missing creature specialists This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted October 03, 2018 07:36 PM

Missing creature specialists

I had some thoughts about creature specialists, that for some reason are missing from the game. All of them would be might heroes.
I checked what these imaginary heroes would get as bonus in level 30, for their upgraded creatures, besides +1 Speed and here are the results: (For comparison best original creature specialist is Galthran gaining 9 Attack & 9 Defense (18) and worst is Jabarkas gaining 4 Attack & 2 Defense (6) )
Castle:
Pikemen - Hero would start with 3 stacks of Pikemen - 9 Attack & 8 Defense = 17 Bonus (Very strong special second only to Galthran, Pikemen have low speed though.)
Rampart:
Centaurs - Hero would start with 3 stacks of Centaurs - 9 Attack & 5 Defense = 14 Bonus (Very good bonus and the speed makes Centaurs even more dangerous.)
Tower:
Gremlins - Hero would start with 3 stacks of Gremlins - 6 Attack & 6 Defense = 12 Bonus (Good bonus, the biggest advantage would probably be all the Gremlins to start with, making a formidable starting shooter army.)
Dungeon:
Medusas - Hero would start with Troglodytes, Harpies and Beholders - 4 Attack & 4 Defense = 8 Bonus (Very reasonable bonus, this would be a very fair hero imo.)
Conflux:
Pixies - Hero would start with 3 stacks of Pixies - 3 Attack & 3 Defense = 6 Bonus (Very low bonus, as bad as Jabarkas' and it probably would'nt be worth it.)  
Air Elementals - Hero would start with one stack of Pixies and 2 stacks of Air Elementals - 6 Attack & 6 Defense = 12 Bonus (Good bonus and extra speed would make Storm Elementals even faster shooters, they are still vulnerable to Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning and Armageddon and can't be resurrected though.)

So what do you think of these imaginary heroes? Which of them would be acceptable and which would'nt?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 03, 2018 07:48 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 19:50, 03 Oct 2018.

Pixies would be worth it with the +1 speed and using "wait" you can attack and then go back next turn before the enemy can act; if upgraded they can't even retaliate.

Funny that Jabarkas "the worst" bonus is like Xeron bonus from campaign Inferno and devils (though to his credit, he gets it at level 1... not that he would probably have devils at lvl1 anyways)

Pikemen and Gremlin hero would probably be the closest to being OP, since +1 speed actually matters more in slow creatures; and as we know, creature specialties are stronger for lvl1 creatures and Gremlins are the only lvl1 shooter.
____________
Never changing = never improving

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
monere
monere


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted October 03, 2018 07:50 PM

As I keep saying each time on threads like this... nothing can beat logistics and armorer specialists, or diplomacy / necromancy.

So, given that nothing can be more lame than the above I think all your imaginary specialists would fit just fine without breaking the game

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 03, 2018 07:55 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 19:56, 03 Oct 2018.

I said that in my thread but Phoenix insisted some campaign specialists would be OP http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=45409

Personally I only think lord haart death knight one would be the only one truly possibly OP of the creature specialties (compared with offense/armorer/logistics), and still it would be on par or lower than Galthran at high level.

(I am not counting Gelu or Dracon as "specialists" since they don't actually give bonuses to any creature, they are more like walking castles to upgrade)
____________
Never changing = never improving

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Otuken
Otuken


Famous Hero
posted October 03, 2018 07:59 PM

Master gremlin is absolutely unbalanced unit in terms of cost efficiency like titans in Tower. Tower heroes already starts with too many gremlins. If you decrease starting amount of Gremlins for every tower hero and increase their costs. Gremlin specialists hero would be acceptable.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted October 03, 2018 08:00 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 20:02, 03 Oct 2018.

Well I don't really insist on anything and for sure Logistics/Offense/Armorer/Intelligence specialists would be better than any creature specialist. But Galthran is not a bad hero is he?, a Pikemen specialist would be almost as strong (except the Necromancy) and the Gremlin hero would come with tons of Gremlins…

@Otuken Actually I did decrease the amount of starting Gremlins. (and changed other factions starting amounts)

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 03, 2018 08:17 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 20:19, 03 Oct 2018.

Galthran can't really be compared since Necropolis army is almost all skeletons due to it being the only creature created by necromancy. So it's not that Galthran or his specialty on itself is too good - it would still be a bad hero without necromancy existing, if Necropolis had only natural weekly growth of skeletons.

Speaking of missing specialties, how would the game be if we had normal lvl 7 creature specialists? I mean "Increassing their stats every 7 levels" and +1 speed; would they be acceptable, or OP, or perhaps too weak?

Actually Bron is the only mechanically notable "Normal" creature specialist since he's the only hero that starts with level 4 creatures (basilisks).
Considering all other lvl 4 specialists are normally taken as terrible (except Vampires for obvious reasons), could this mechanic be applied to others?
____________
Never changing = never improving

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Otuken
Otuken


Famous Hero
posted October 03, 2018 08:27 PM

Creature specialist heroes boost them very insignificantly. They have to give much more bonus these unit I mean giving also damage and HP bonus would be great. Any creature hero was supposed to be as good as offense/armorer/logistics heroes.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted October 03, 2018 08:27 PM

Nimostar see this thread for level 7 specialists:
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=45393

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted October 03, 2018 08:47 PM

phoenix4ever said:
I don't really insist on anything and for sure Logistics/Offense/Armorer/Intelligence specialists would be better than any creature specialist. But Galthran is not a bad hero is he?

I once I heard Maretti saying he would abandon Crag if Galthran appear in tavern, I guess this is enough about how good he is but as someone already pointed out that is because skeletons are the only level 1 unit that remains important till the end of the game.
I would love to see the Master Gremlins, the Pixies and the Air Elemental specialists on action but my vote still goes to make Theodorus an Archery specialist. That wouldn't be OP and at least Tower would gain another decent hero.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 03, 2018 08:50 PM

As for what else should be boosted, I favor that instead or atk/def bonuses, relevant creatures should get a boost to their special abilities.

For example,

Bron, Basilisk Specialist: Basilisks have +1 speed and +20%  chances of petryfing with their attacks.

Genie Specialists: Genies have +1 speed, + 2 atk and def, and can cast one extra spell every combat.

Dendroid Specialist: Dendroids have +2 atk, +4 def, and +10 hp

Green and Gold Dragon specialist: Green and Gold Dragons have +1 speed and 25% chance of reflecting hostile spells.

Golem Specialist: Golems (Stone, Iron, Gold and Diamond) have +2 def, +5 HP, and +10% to their magic damage reduction.

Etc.

In short, creatures should be reinforced in their strenghts and abilities to further specialize their roles.
____________
Never changing = never improving

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
monere
monere


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted October 03, 2018 09:33 PM
Edited by monere at 21:35, 03 Oct 2018.

Quote:
Personally I only think lord haart


lord haart has got nothing on tamika in WoG. I have played Lord Haart for the first time in my life some 4-5 months ago and I have been UTTERLY disappointed at the sh1tty bonuses the dread knights have gotten at level 60.

Still raging, I then immediately started playing Tamika and at the same level 60 (or around it anyway) Tamika's dread knights were dealing like 3-4x more damage than under LH.

The difference has been so obvious - and disappointing to be honest, considering how cool LH seemed on paper - that I have stopped considering that hero as a good hero


Quote:
how would the game be if we had normal lvl 7 creature specialists? ... would they be acceptable, or OP, or perhaps too weak?


Considering that usually the level 7 creatures are the ones pulling the win I think their heroes would break the game. Just my opinion...

Quote:
I mean giving also damage and HP bonus would be great


They do that in WoG... and it's freaking GREAT! I love playing Tamika and Monere in WoG. Well, the dread knights have always been nasty, but you should see the Magic Elementals under Monere in WoG


Quote:
Bron, Basilisk Specialist: Basilisks have +1 speed and +20%  chances of petryfing with their attacks.


Don't they already have that?? I mean, the basilisks already have 20% chance of petrifying with their attack, no?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Nimostar
Nimostar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 03, 2018 10:47 PM
Edited by Nimostar at 22:49, 03 Oct 2018.

+20% means they have double. Not like "+1 speed, but they alreasy have 5 speed?" :v

Normally heroes arent level 60 in the unmodded game; final battles in medium maps are like level 20-30...

Of course at level 60 haart bonus wont matter, but try vs tamika at level 10.

Plus as you say tamika has already been changed in wog.
____________
Never changing = never improving

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
monere
monere


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted October 03, 2018 11:24 PM

probably

But... the basilisks DO have 20% chance of petrifying, both basic and upgraded. So, not sure what you're talking about

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
RerryR
RerryR


Promising
Supreme Hero
Researching Magic
posted October 04, 2018 08:26 AM

NimoStar said:
As for what else should be boosted, I favor that instead or atk/def bonuses, relevant creatures should get a boost to their special abilities.

For example,

Bron, Basilisk Specialist: Basilisks have +1 speed and +20%  chances of petryfing with their attacks.

Genie Specialists: Genies have +1 speed, + 2 atk and def, and can cast one extra spell every combat.

Dendroid Specialist: Dendroids have +2 atk, +4 def, and +10 hp

Green and Gold Dragon specialist: Green and Gold Dragons have +1 speed and 25% chance of reflecting hostile spells.

Golem Specialist: Golems (Stone, Iron, Gold and Diamond) have +2 def, +5 HP, and +10% to their magic damage reduction.

Etc.

In short, creatures should be reinforced in their strenghts and abilities to further specialize their roles.


That would be a quite cool idea.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 04, 2018 02:07 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 14:08, 04 Oct 2018.

Quote:
But... the basilisks DO have 20% chance of petrifying, both basic and upgraded. So, not sure what you're talking abou


...that the specialty would get the chances to 40%
Why is that so hard to grasp?

Anyways, its just one of many possible effects that heroes could have when specializing in creatures. For example, a Griffin specialist could make griffins deal 25% more damage when retaliating.
____________
Never changing = never improving

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
monere
monere


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted October 04, 2018 04:56 PM

Quote:
...that the specialty would get the chances to 40%
Why is that so hard to grasp?


Because english is weird?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted April 02, 2019 02:51 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 14:52, 02 Apr 2019.

Sorry for reviving my old thread, but what do you think of these two heroes?  

Ranger - Gelu: Leadership Archery 3 stacks of 13-22 centaurs and centaur specialty? (Other Rampart heroes also start with 13-22 centaurs instead of 12-24.)

Wizard - Dracon: Advanced Wisdom 3 stacks of 15-25 gremlins, gremlin specialty and starts with spellbook and Haste? (Other Tower heroes also start with 15-25 gremlins instead of 30-40.)

Are they okay, underpowered or overpowered?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted April 02, 2019 05:18 PM

What does Gelu have to do with Centaurs?
____________
The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted April 02, 2019 05:31 PM

Nothing really, I just wanted some new heroes.
But I'm not sure if the centaur special may be too strong.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Jump To: « Prev Thread . . . Next Thread » This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
Post New Poll    Post New Topic    Post New Reply

Page compiled in 0.0565 seconds