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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: Small boost for Stronghold and Fortress?
Thread: Small boost for Stronghold and Fortress?
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted October 05, 2018 11:09 AM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 11:23, 05 Oct 2018.

Small boost for Stronghold and Fortress?

I had some very small boosts for Stronghold and Fortress in mind, since these towns can't get beyond Mage Guild level 3 and both have pretty slow units, this could serve as a small compensation.
Also because Stronghold has the worst creature specialist (Jabarkas) giving only a very small bonus to orcs, because of orcs lousy stats. So I thought about increasing defense of Orc Chieftains from 4 -> 5 (also making Jabarkas slightly better in the proces)
For Fortress I always found wyverns cool creatures, but very fragile, more fragile than gorgons and without Death Stare, so what if Wyvern Monarchs got 75 HP instead of 70?
(I would slightly increase cost, ai value and fight value if these changes were made.)

Are these very small boosts unnecessary or do they make sense?

Another (probably impossible) wish I have, is to have Stronghold and Fortress have Mage Guild 4, but with only one level 4 spell. (at half the cost of a normal Mage Guild 4 of course)

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 05, 2018 12:14 PM

I would give mage guild level 5 to fortress and be done with that. Consider wyverns can be built on the first days so they don't have to be particularly strong. Maybe boost the probability of using poison for monarchs.

Stronghold is not a weak town, Ancient Behemoths can eat any other 7th level unit due tot he 80% defense reduction.

Although I do agree orcs suck, if they are boosted something else should be nerfed a bit.
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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted October 05, 2018 12:19 PM

Monarchs are pretty expensive as they are, so increasing their cost even further would not be a good idea. But giving them 5 extra HPs is a good idea.

The orcs could also benefit from the extra defense point, I don't think that's a game breaker. If you're gonna increase their cost, though, I think 5 is the right amount of extra gold

I don't like the level 4 mage guild, though. Barbarians are barbarians (aka NOT spellcasters), so they shouldn't have access to high level spells, especially since this is not Heroes 4 (in which barbarians can't use magic easily). In Heroes 3 even the barbarians can learn high level spells easily with wisdom level 2, so they don't need a high level mage guild, too in their team, especially since - like I said - they are barbarians. I know that this is your game and you will eventually do as you like, but... since you've asked for opinions I had to give mine

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted October 05, 2018 12:28 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 12:29, 05 Oct 2018.

Well I always like asking for opinions, since mine is probably not always correct.
In regards to orcs it was also mostly for Jabarkas' sake, being the worst creature specialist.
Wyverns more fragile than gorgons (and at a lower growth rate) is also disappointing.

Mage Guild 4 is maybe also more for Fortress as their Witches are actually good magic heroes, while Battle Mages are more might oriented.
So perhaps Mage Guild 4 for Fortress (maybe only 1 spell?) and level 3 for Stronghold?

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 05, 2018 12:32 PM

Well, goirgons are much slower and they don't fly. But +5 hp would be ok for the purpose of not having 4 creatures in a single faction which all have 70 health

And it does bother me that Orc's primary stats don't increase with the upgrade, specially seeing that they get more armor and an extra axe. So I would give them +15 gold cost (to 180) and +1 atk / +1 def to the chieftains.
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Djangoo
Djangoo


Adventuring Hero
posted October 05, 2018 07:21 PM
Edited by Djangoo at 19:56, 05 Oct 2018.

I'm all in favour for Mage Guild 4 for Stronghold and Fortress.

Their mage classes are just the worst. I doubt anyone ever choses them over might heroes. Witches gain so much spellpower but can't do anything useful with it. Battle Mages at least gain a lot of Attack, but you won't pick them anyways (maybe Dessa because Logistics OpieOP)

And for Town Portal you have to rely on scrolls or Pandoras which might be easy on random templates like Jebus, but not on all custom maps, its an unnecessary annoyance imo.

Lore wise it also makes not much sense: witches can't learn good spells, but Clerics or Dwarves can?

edit: dislike pretty much all unit stat changes because I'm die hard fan of unit balance. Wyvern never stood out to my as particularly squishy, they do their job of invading city just fine.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted October 05, 2018 07:43 PM

Don't forget that a medium random map has ~ 20 dragon fly hives and bigger the map is, more of them there are. So your +5 HP/wivern becomes a quite serious bonus when you consider the extra 100 wiverns players should accumulate.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 05, 2018 09:05 PM

Not so much because those give unupgraded wyverns and upgrading them is very expensive... (300 gold per wyvern)
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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted October 05, 2018 10:45 PM

Yeah the boosts were intended for Orc Chieftains and Wyvern Monarchs. (only upgraded units)

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phe
phe


Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
posted October 05, 2018 10:59 PM
Edited by phe at 08:40, 06 Oct 2018.

I'd prefer 5 Wyverns and 5 Cyclopes with Castle built... also 1 extra Hydra and 1 extra Devil every fortnight(even weeks:2,4,6,8...)
and for Orcs also just higher weekly growth...

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Otuken
Otuken


Known Hero
posted October 05, 2018 11:44 PM

Stronghold absolutely does not need any boost especially in HotA. It is the cheapest town and have awesome heroes.

A small boost for Fortress could be nice. Better to give +1 (or +2) speed to Hydras. +1 minimum damage to dragonflys and -10 cost from Gnoll marauder.

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acidchalk
acidchalk


Promising
Known Hero
posted October 06, 2018 06:02 PM
Edited by acidchalk at 18:03, 06 Oct 2018.

I could probably whip up more mage guild level graphics in vcmi pretty easily. I've done this for castle before on an alternate version.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted October 06, 2018 06:27 PM

If you could design Mage Guild 4 for Fortress, that would be pretty cool.

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zmudziak22
zmudziak22


Famous Hero
posted October 07, 2018 07:23 PM

Maybe Stronghold could have Warfare Academy? Something like Magic University in Conflux but would allow us for 2000 buy:
Archery, Armorer, Tactics, Offense(for Battle Mages)?

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 08, 2018 12:41 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 00:42, 08 Oct 2018.

Stronghold already has strong, unique specials like Escape Tunnel and Freelancer's Guild ,

if anything the war academy should go to Fortress which only has primary skill boosters for siege (which are useless on the long term) and cage of warlords...
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