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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: H4 Missed Oportunities - Map objects from buildings
Thread: H4 Missed Oportunities - Map objects from buildings
NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted November 13, 2018 08:22 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 08:25, 13 Nov 2018.

H4 Missed Oportunities - Map objects from buildings

In h4 everything was modelled in 3D before being rendered and added as a sprite.

Then, why were so many renders squandered?

There are many objects which were used on town as buildings, but not added as adventure objects which would have been easy.

It was as a task relatively trivial... 95% of the work is making, texturing and animating the model. Rendering it is easy, maybe some time-computer process intensive back then, but no big deal seeing this wasn't the 90's any more.

Coding an adventure object is relatively trivial when you have something already coded as a city building.

I will put some things which just seem like missed opportunities to render isometrically and use as adventure objects.

1- Faction-Specific map Prisons

A prison perfect for the heroes of cetain factions. All prison models exist within town buildings, so why don't they exist as map objects?
They could be unique "faction-only" prisons, or work as regular prisons.

2- Map Faction Blacksmiths variation

Ok, this was all too easy. We have a map blackmith but its contents are randomized. It also looks generic and boring. We could have had 6 different map-blacksmiths, each with the model of an specific faction, and with thewir faction-specific artifacts available, as adventure map objects. They would have also looked pretty rad.

3- Ports variations

Have you noticed H4 docks look extremely boring?


If only they had a cool looking viking ship in an undead harbor model they could have used... oh that's right, they did.

Also a pirate ship and much more in other factions.


So, why keep that damned port as the only one? We could have had six fully animated extremely detailed harbors, one for each faction, and producing the corresponding ship, for minimal effort. Missed opportunity indeed.

4- Capturable map Grails.
The Grails global effects were already defined... and pfrom promotional images we know Grail structures were quite detailed as 3D objects. They are wasted as small buildings in the distance only. These could have been sick structures in the map as well.

Capturing one of this doesn't have to give you 3000 gold per day, but could give the global bonus (In this case +25% power to all Chaos magic). They could have been pretty big and noticeable, and even appear with the "linked to town type" option and guardian options as object properties in the editor.
Overall, a pretty hard miss there.

***

What town building or other feature do you think could have been adapted to tother functionalities? Would you have liked to see these features implemented? Tell in comments!
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PandaTar
PandaTar


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
posted November 13, 2018 03:02 PM

Although I'm not this active at following mods changes you guys are doing, H4 was, after H2, the one I most had fun with and probably the one I most played. And all of them because I felt really immersed in the game. So, yes, the points above, I agree with them all, would like to see these elements implemented, given they feel like adding to immersion and map design, for the most perfeccionists.
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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted November 13, 2018 10:26 PM

Sadly we can't implement these via mods... yet. But advances are being made all the time. We *can* implement custom loadouts in town backsmiths, though. well, at least I can :V

Also, as it regards to 3D models, someone leaked Red Alert 2's original 3D models over 10 years after the release of the original game... so there is hope :V https://ppmforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=38429
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(Also biggest of only two 2 mods for HOMM IV)

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vulcancolak
vulcancolak


Known Hero
posted November 14, 2018 12:23 PM

NimoStar it seems people can't get my private messages and i don't know why (i have encountered with this one) so sorry it was off topic but i cannot find and don't know how to

Is there a way to edit attributes of the items? I am asking just for presented values. Not adding or removing new ones.

In the heroes 5 i can edit items easily, skills are problem
In the heroes 4 i can edit skills easily, skills are problem

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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Famous Hero
posted November 17, 2018 11:15 AM
Edited by Karmakeld at 11:21, 17 Nov 2018.

You already know what's possible and what might be in the future but also what obstacles lays before us, for all of your ideas to be carried out.
Sure some of the above would be neat, but you also know alot of planned features were discarded before release either due to time or balance issues.

For the easy part of adding new objects, I suggest you extract the objects you want to be added and post (and prepare) the images/animations in the Object Package tread. I can help add the new objects and then perhaps later on we'll be able to edit the properties so eg. Blacksmiths or shipyards can be faction related. Althought I don't really see the point in faction related shipyards as even if you purchase a ship in a Death harbor you'll still end up with a pirate ship if you're Chaos related, so to me a neutral harbor makes good sense.
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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted November 17, 2018 06:10 PM

Quote:
see the point in faction related shipyards as even if you purchase a ship in a Death harbor you'll still end up with a pirate ship if you're Chaos related, so to me a neutral harbor makes good sense.


Well that *is* the point, this mechanic would be replaced in favor of the ship being created as related to the making shipyard. Although I do know this is not possible right now,

Our problem is a lack of interest of qualified people in working on H4 hacking.

H3 was just like H4, we never got the source code, yet people made hundreds of scripts and mods, and new ones are created all the time, solely with hex hacking. Including editing skills, artifacts, and map mechanics. The whole WOG was based hex hacking and DLL scripting AFAIK, as was/is HotA.
So the same would definitely be possible in H4 with dedicated, knowledgeable people.
The tasks are that someone knowledgeable with hacking and Assembly instructions look manually at the .exe, and memorize the cues to look for patterns (for example, ability hexes, skill hexes, artifact hexes, spell hexes, creature hexes, and so on of things that are listed)  so we know from programming and structure what is defined where. As more of the .exe is "Mapped" our possibilities for modding become expanded.

I have helped in what ways I could but I am afraid my hex abilities will never be completely developed, plus I am not as intelligent as when I started doing this some years ago. I understand the basics but calculating offsets and inserting code with jumps in the .exe has proven to be too much of a headache.
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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Famous Hero
posted November 17, 2018 07:31 PM

Nimo, a video of how dll's can be inserted into exe files has been posted, and I do believe iLiVe intends to look into it when he has finished his current projects. I agree that if only we had more active programmers in the H4 community we'd might progress more. But while I face the same limits as you, I do believe we as common folks might still be able to help exploring the exe file by looking into calls. I have no experience in this myself, but have noticed how eg Radmutant69 seems to have expanded his knowledge about both modding and code calls over just a few years, but at the end of the day, if only enough people share their knowledge and has the will to dig in, we might get there while there is still active players lol. Just understanding the basics will get us far in helping eachother, just look at the moddinh progress made.


vulcancolak said:

Is there a way to edit attributes of the items? I am asking just for presented values. Not adding or removing new ones.



Vulcancolak, what items are you refering to? Attribute values of artifacts?
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