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| Thread: Love or sexual organ? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted January 19, 2019 12:20 AM |
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What's up? I woke. Don't trouble urself over it. Be careful with thread.
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AlHazin
Promising
Supreme Hero
النور
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posted January 19, 2019 12:34 AM |
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Sorry Ghost, I derailed your thread. I would buy you some alcohol to make amends if I could.
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Nothing of value disappears from this world, it will reappear in some shape or form ^^ - Elvin
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 19, 2019 08:31 AM |
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Religion sucks. 
Anyway, guys, sex, love, religion ... Really?
At least they have something in common.
Sex is obviously a necessary prerequisite for the survival of the species, so it's clear there is a genetic preconditioning for it. Both men and women are conditioned by nature to want it - but of course, just as with the conditioning to survive, once the mental capabilities of a species have reached a certain threshold, the preconditioning can be warped or overridden, willingly or unwillingly.
"Love" is a lot less well-defined than sex, but no matter how you define it, it's also a necessary prerequisite for the survival of the species, because otherwise we couldn't live in groups. Some kind of "caring just for the sake of another person" is necessary here, otherwise everyone ever would have cared only about themselves and we wouldn't exist anymore. Of course, as with sex, overrides and warpings are not just possible, but also occur frequently.
Lastly, religion is basically the tale the group mind has spun around everything mysterious: who are we, where do we come from, where do we go, what is all this, why are the rules of life the rules of life ... In my opinion there WAS a time when religion was also a necessary prerequisite for survival, because otherwise the individual would have lost it under the pressure of "knowledge" - what the bible calls "eating from the tree of knowledge": once the species has self-consciousness and realizes the crappy situation they were in they needed some comfort to survive.
Since this isn't genetically supported in any way, it's of course dispensable. The Eastern solutions show that we can survive with nothingness as the highest goal of the living cycle.
This is, of course, seems to be de-romanticizing all this, love especially, but only when you don't consider the fact that objective and subjective are two very different things (1) and that we as a species have the capacity to "work" with what we needed to survive (and what is therefore there, otherwise we wouldn't exist) (2).
Anyway, religion still sucks.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 19, 2019 09:22 AM |
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If anything, we are good at overriding things.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted January 19, 2019 09:49 AM |
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Wish it only sucked. It harms and dumbs down.
Was it neccessary back in time, a popular term for humans nowadays is “homo fictus”, you see, by personal, individual to individual connections alone you can have a group of 150, give or take a few. It’s called Dunbar’s number, after that people start to become strangers. Look at most primate groups in nature, that is what their number revolves around mostly, by max. Yet, humans’ capability to make up fictional structures and then stick to them as external realities enables them to organize in much greater numbers. In this regard, the law, human rights, value of money that a state recognizes are no different than religion. They allow you to build social structures and organized networks. Harari gives a good example about this, he says a chimp is much stronger and faster than a human but imagine 10.000 chimps in a stadium, the result would be chaos. Where as humans can unite to support a team, the team itself is fiction, just like a nation, there is no Galatasaray or Germany in the universe if people dont acknowledge it first. The problem with religion is, it’s frozen and dogmatic, and it results in people getting stuck on cosmologies and ethics just because of their group identity. It is vastly outdated and it even sabotages its older function now.
About the other stuff, Basically, we are a social species with hormones, mirror neurons and abstraction capability. So love, compassion, passion, empathy, agape, eros, affection, desire.... all these definitions are interlinked approximations of what goes on in our brain. Such definitions always revolve around gray areas.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Neraus
Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
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posted January 19, 2019 11:03 AM |
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Being part of the global boogeyman, I admit it, we made up a giant conspiracy, you know the Christmas star? It was actually a spaceship disguised as an asteroid from the Menkalinan star system, the Magi were agents sent by the Shah of Eran on a mission to investigate the happening, on the account that the fire priests warned of a disturbance in the Earth's geomagnetic field. They returned bearing no news of a threat, that was the first documented case of contact.
From that moment on the mind worms of Menkalinan spread on under the guise of a Jewish sect, eventually infecting the Roman emperor Constantine, who spearheaded an empire wide distribution of the worm, this was the first time we thought we could conquer Earth easily.
We didn't expect the Germanic tribes to ruin our plans however, a rogue mind lord infected an influential preacher who in turn ran to the northern tribes and made them our rival, while being flanked by the Sassanid Zoroastrians we couldn't defend ourselves from the attempted coup of Arius, this was also the first time we lost much of the infrastructure that allowed our rapid spread, as the tribes set villages on fire and let the roads fall into disrepair.
You know why Nero set Rome on fire and blamed it on Christians? Fire kills the worm, the Zoroastrians knew this, hence why their religion hinged on fire, for that same reason hell is described like an enormous lake of fire, it's meant to imprint in the human vessel the repulsiveness to fire, however, by chance, they were wiped out by the hordes of Muslims, who were also on a mission to eradicate the space worm, but due to a miscommunication eventually conquered Persia, that is also why rogue mind worms were punished by setting their vessel on fire, so that they couldn't survive and infect someone else with their ideas.
We got forced into wars over and over, the Mohammedans from the east and south, the Tengri Mongols from further east, the Romuva also from the east, all sought to remove the disturbance from outer space, in the meantime we also lost the eastern half of the brood when the Eastern monarch hosts broke away from the central power, leading to our first dark age, yet we lingered, fought on, and resisted thanks to our worm overlords who granted us an unbreakable will.
How else would you explain our rigorous devotion and zealotry? No one in our ranks reeks of sin, we all adhere to the Word, letter by letter. We are ready to spill blood, we did it many times to liberate the crash site (this was the real reason for the Crusades btw), but we were repelled by the Mohammedan hordes, who never let us recover the pod and repair it to further our conquest of the universe.
Our changing of human society was a collateral damage, but it did bring an unexpected boon, we managed to shape human sexual mores into a perfect engine for global genetic engineering while avoiding the pitfalls of inbreeding, however, the malfunctioning of some of our drone units never allowed us to perfect the human race as our preferred vessel, so we haven't yet been able to perfectly pair humans with desirable characteristics on mass.
What we didn't expect and damaged the most was the sudden drive to divergence that some higher caste mind worms also manifested, most returned to the fold, others attempted to replace the mind lord in Rome, which led entire populations to adopt a weaker strain, strains that would lead to more divergence and thus even weaker strains, which led to some vessels rejecting the worm altogether, who in turn revolted against us as the uncivilized did in the past.
Fortunately, we impressed unto the world ethics that wouldn't allow vessels to be set on fire, and our opponents have wholeheartedly accepted them, thus leaving them powerless before us.
Some of you may ask why I'm revealing this information, well, we have decided to go back to our roots, the strongest mind net is willing to accept everyone back, we are also willing to bless those who rejected the weaker mind worms, we need the help of everyone on Earth to recover our landing pod, so that we may recover the technologies that allowed us to reach Earth in the first place, thus marking the beginning of Earth's exploration of the Galaxy while also allowing us to return home. To our knowledge mankind is a great vessel for our species, and we are willing to cooperate and lead it to Galactic domination, if we were to unite our forces on Earth and the forces of our home planet, we may find a way to turn mankind into a superior being that can transcend the limits of organic life.
We offered peace, we tried war, we are again extending our hand. Please, let yourself be assimilated.
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Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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AlHazin
Promising
Supreme Hero
النور
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posted January 19, 2019 11:08 AM |
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JollyJoker said:
Anyway, guys, sex, love, religion ... Really?
It's more about sex, love and psychology. Religion is the problem of those who constantly bring everything back to it.
I follow you when you say that love is necessary, the most interesting part is when you say it can have multiple definitions, in the sense of caring in order to protect the 'beloved' one. But that love is not necessarily how we define it today.
I wanted to stress the fact that by the past, the Church by its ideological concepts wanted to promote concepts that go against nature, with every definition you can give to that last term. The Greeks like any other patriarchal civilisation or society had different configurations in their social interactions.
Some philosophers even set their basis on materialistic observations to interpret social behaviours. For example, as to why polygamy was vastly accepted for men and not for women, they proposed the answer that the physical differences influenced societies and set their sexual norms, represented in men having millions of spermatozoids to spread around them when women have only one ovum per month. And by promoting monogamy, the Church went against the 'very nature' that “should” rule those norms (the very polygamous 'nature' of men).
The same applies to the priests' celibate, or rejecting mating at all when you are physically equipped to eventually do it.
There is a logical path set into finding these correlations. One can go further into the approach of physical differences and state that the rules were set in the prehistoric age in which men hunted (because they physically were able to) while women didn't, such a configuration is what has determined the relationships between the two genders for millennia.
And that is an interesting concept whether one is religious or not. Because there is a continuity between cavemen and 'modern' men.
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Nothing of value disappears from this world, it will reappear in some shape or form ^^ - Elvin
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 19, 2019 11:25 AM |
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AlHazin said:
I wanted to stress the fact that by the past, the Church by its ideological concepts wanted to promote concepts that go against nature, with every definition you can give to that last term.
In the past? These days they ban yoga, kung fu and bath salts and I'm not even jesting 
____________
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted January 19, 2019 11:49 AM |
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Oh yes, you write “the Church tried to change that by melting Eros with Agape to fit women’s point of view on the topic” and somehow, it is “other people” bringing religion up. Wonderful consistency once again!
1- The church did not invent monogamy, it’s much older. Why was it the dominant norm in China or some Native American tribes completely isolated from Christian teachings, if it is all about the Church? It is a good thing they supported it though, since in almost every case one-sided polygamy results in EXTREMELY patriarchal societies in which women are seen as second-class people.
2- No “gamy” is the natural state of men. The very institution of marriage is an invention.
3- IF you try to justify one-sided polygamy through biological differences such as pregnancy, it can only be a periodical defense, since today people have relations without having kids. It is an extremely common thing since birth control. And women dont have to fall in love every time they want to sleep with someone, that’s a conservative myth.
4- In prehistoric times, gender roles were not non-existent but they were hardly as strict as some people make them sound. Men occassionaly looked after kids, women participated in hunts, think of a traveling hunter-gatherer group where nothing is set in stone, the rest would be quite easy to imagine. Also, civilization, by definition, is a derivation from pre-historic norms. You can easily say for thousands of years we left behind the sick and the old for dead. Does it mean it is our nature to do so? Conditions SHAPE our nature, that’s what makes humans special, the range of change they are capable of.
5- In today’s world, marriage is not a pre-requisite for people to be together anyway. Thanks to progress, man or woman, anybody can be with whomever they want, as long as they want, they can prefer to remain monogamic or not. It’s now a choice, not a custom. So an effort to support one-sided polygamy against monogamy is anachronic to say the least.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 19, 2019 12:57 PM |
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artu said:
Basically, we are a social species with hormones, mirror neurons and abstraction capability. So love, compassion, passion, empathy, agape, eros, affection, desire.... all these definitions are interlinked approximations of what goes on in our brain. Such definitions always revolve around gray areas.
Well ... yes, exactly. 
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Gandalf196
Disgraceful
Supreme Hero
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posted January 19, 2019 01:27 PM |
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artu said:
About the other stuff, Basically, we are a social species with hormones, mirror neurons and abstraction capability. So love, compassion, passion, empathy, agape, eros, affection, desire.... all these definitions are interlinked approximations of what goes on in our brain. Such definitions always revolve around gray areas.
Assuming that conciousness can be reduced to the brain's eletrochemistry, though.
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AlHazin
Promising
Supreme Hero
النور
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posted January 19, 2019 01:53 PM |
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Elvin said:
AlHazin said:
I wanted to stress the fact that by the past, the Church by its ideological concepts wanted to promote concepts that go against nature, with every definition you can give to that last term.
In the past? These days they ban yoga, kung fu and bath salts and I'm not even jesting
You care about those because you're Chinese, eh?
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Nothing of value disappears from this world, it will reappear in some shape or form ^^ - Elvin
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 19, 2019 01:57 PM |
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See? You're getting it 
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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AnkVaati
Famous Hero
Nighonese National Front
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posted January 19, 2019 02:02 PM |
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I support monogamy in the economic sense of the word.
Who you have sex is another matter.
Kings used to kinda openly have mistresses at the court back in the days.
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Ank's Old School (kinda) H8 proposal <- best thing evvah, trust me
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NoobX
Undefeatable Hero
Now, this is a paradox...
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posted January 19, 2019 04:57 PM |
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Gandalf196 said:
Assuming that conciousness can be reduced to the brain's eletrochemistry, though.
Why would you assume otherwise if neither of the theories can be proven conclusively? Wouldn't it be more efficient to go with the simpler explanation then?
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Ghost said:
Door knob resembles anus tap.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted January 19, 2019 05:24 PM |
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As u remember polygamy isn't biblical, when Adam was to have only one wife. A bit of no good, I have no suchlike thing. But u find the thread interesting.
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Gandalf196
Disgraceful
Supreme Hero
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posted January 19, 2019 05:30 PM |
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NoobX said:
Gandalf196 said:
Assuming that conciousness can be reduced to the brain's eletrochemistry, though.
Why would you assume otherwise if neither of the theories can be proven conclusively? Wouldn't it be more efficient to go with the simpler explanation then?
The part in bold is certainly true, Occam's razor has quite the track record. However, the notion that consciousness is a by-product of the physical activity of the brain has some problems:
1 - Some physicists insist that quantum mechanics
cannot be formulated without taking into account the minds
of observers. They argue that minds cannot be reduced to physics because physics presupposes the minds of physicists ( D'Espagnat B. Conceptual Foundations of Quantum Mechanics.
Reading, MA: Benjamin; 1976.);
2 - If minds are merely epiphenomena of matter, then they are governed by natural laws, leaving no space at all for free will. However, I strongly believe there's free will: we can actually choose or reject what we do with our time;
3 - The psychologist Nicholas Humphrey describes consciousness as
“a magical mystery show that we stage for ourselves inside
our own heads". But to say that consciousness is an illusion
does not explain consciousness—it presupposes it. Illusion is
a mode of consciousness
That said, I'm not comfortable with the idea that because we cannot actually describe or measure consciousness, we should assume it is merely illusory.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted January 19, 2019 06:23 PM |
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Edited by artu at 18:24, 19 Jan 2019.
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That’s quite a hasty jump from naturalism to determinism there. Just because something is governed by natural law doesnt mean there can only be one probable outcome. That’s like saying if smoke moves according to natural law, we should be able to calculate its movement with precision. Too many factors for prediction. Same goes for consciousness, whether you can call that free will at some point or not is questionable but it is a pretty compromised concept anyway, brain scans show most decisions we make are already “decided” in our brain by the time we have the experience of deliberate choice.
Anyway, the consensus on consciousness being a bio-chemical process is really solid and such bio-chemistry doesnt involve sub-atomic level research, so quantum physics is really not relevant.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Gandalf196
Disgraceful
Supreme Hero
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posted January 19, 2019 06:47 PM |
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artu said:
Anyway, the consensus on consciousness being a bio-chemical process is really solid and such bio-chemistry doesnt involve sub-atomic level research, so quantum physics is really not relevant.
Bah! That word means literally nothing to me. I share Mr. Feynman's view, “Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.”; when a group of experts expect me to adhere to a particular counter-intuitive and intelectually disgusting doctrine just because most of them do, my contempt for orthodoxy grows stronger.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted January 19, 2019 07:09 PM |
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Edited by artu at 19:12, 19 Jan 2019.
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This is not doubt but rather mysticism. There is a method to a scientific consensus, it is not just everybody shaking their heads in approval. If you have real doubt, then check out credible sources and compare them. I’m sure Mr. Feynman wasnt referring to unicorns or elves in his quote either.
And there is nothing counter-intiutive or disgusting about your mind not being a magical entity. Unless of course, you call the wish to live forever, intuition.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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