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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Trust in Putin falls to 13-year low
Thread: Trust in Putin falls to 13-year low This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT»
artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted January 25, 2019 10:58 AM

Same in Turkish, except the second definition from forfy is a little vague. Vegans eat plants which also perish, it’s suicide not to eat any organisms anyway. What is different from vegeterians is they dont eat diary products (cheese, milk, yogurt, eggs etc) or sea shells either, there may be a few other things they dont eat but they certainly eat plants.
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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted January 25, 2019 11:19 AM

Yeah, it's more like the vegan won't consume any food that comes from animals a way or another (which includes Artu's examples). They also are careful with their clothes, like no leather etc.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted January 25, 2019 11:20 AM

I think it's more about a number of them coming across as hypocritical or announcing their vegan status at every opportunity Then again people have been known to make fun of anyone that deviates from the norm so they don't need any valid reasons to do so.
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AlHazin
AlHazin


Promising
Supreme Hero
النور
posted January 25, 2019 12:45 PM

OhforfSake said:
Isn't there two types of vegans, btw.? In my language one type doesn't eat meat, while the other doesn't eat anything that means the living organism that produced it perishes.

So I am not sure, only guessing here, but I suppose they do not eat roots, but they eat things with seeds in them like berries, tomatoes, the juice of man (), etc.

Edit: With berries I actually meant apples, sorry if it led to any confusion.


They are simply not logical. If you care about animals, it's because they are a form of life. Not eating animals for that reason is like not eating plants and giving them rights as well. Just because they don't move and speak doesn't mean they don't experience life and consciousness.

Then you could go further and englobe all of life, like Bacteria and Viruses. Even molecules while we're at it.

Moreover, call me when the cows will have at heart the fate of humans.
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted January 25, 2019 01:07 PM
Edited by artu at 13:25, 25 Jan 2019.

As already stated, that is a very shallow oversimplification for two reasons:
1- Not all living organisms have the same level of sentience and receptiveness, a psychologist doesnt treat a kid who kills mosquitos and a kid who tortures puppies the same, does he. Plants dont suffer in the fields and they have no central nerve system put aside the need to play, move, they dont have emotions in the true sense of the word, they have hardwired reactions. They also dont miss their seeds like mamals miss their offspring.
2- Not to harm highly sentient animals is quite possible in practicality, millions of people are already doing it, it can be a choice. Not to eat plants also, on the other hand, is literally impossible.
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fred79
fred79


Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 25, 2019 07:52 PM

What about someone that tortures mosquitos? Just to, you know, cover all the bases.

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EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted January 25, 2019 08:40 PM
Edited by EnergyZ at 20:43, 25 Jan 2019.

Do animals care if they eat each other? Yet they are sentient.

It's nature's way, that's all. And we are a part of it. Besides, dare any parents to have their children become vegans, and the punishment of the law soon follows.
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AlHazin
AlHazin


Promising
Supreme Hero
النور
posted January 25, 2019 09:20 PM

fred79 said:
What about someone that tortures mosquitos? Just to, you know, cover all the bases.


Many vegans when they are asked if they eat braid answer by yes. To which the asker usually adds: « do you know that in the process of making braid (producing wheat) we kill millions of mosquitoes (with pesticides)? »

And they simply say: « well, you can’t be perfect, you just do the best you can! »

No, nooo, why would you spare mammals, because they look more like us? Then what, should we let Syrians in but not Malians, because Syrians look more like us? Lol. Vegan logic.

I am for my share, against braconnage, zoos and taming animals for circus. That, is animal cruelty. Slaying them to eat them, because we need to eat meat once in a while and that our bodies are used to rely on a good source of protein this way since millennia? Yes, that is not animal cruelty.

It’s not about equality, it’s about justice. Justice between people, justice between genders, justice between different creatures populating this earth.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 25, 2019 10:25 PM

This thread must be a new record for most massive offtopic veering ever.

You guys are so wastelands...

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted January 26, 2019 12:12 AM

Sigh... It’s not about “looking more like us.” It is the experience they go through that counts, not how similar they are to us. I guess, it must be too hard to comprehend the word “sentience” for some people. The level of sentience is different from species to species and insects are not comparable to high mammals in this regard. Justice is a social construct and the content of it changes according to norms, 500 years ago, most people thought slavery was justifiable, ancient books of religion didnt even bother to abolish it. When people stood against it, the most common answer they got was that it was how things were always done and the system would fail without it. Some societies cook dogs, hundreds of millions of Hindus on the other hand, respect cows and cant imagine to kill them. Where as some eat horses, some consider horse man’s best friend. The very simple point is, these are all species with affection, emotion, and it is, especially in our times, very much possible to live healthy lives without hurting them. All high mammals that are part of the modern food industry not only die but spend their life in agony, they are caged, tortured, seperated from their parents immediately after birth... Justice is a very stupid word to pick to define such a situation. Vegans refuse to be part of this and if anything, they should be admired for their deeper level of empathy. They are not a problem, they are on a path to a more civilized set of norms. To mud-sling such an effort is simply trying to bring down people who have better intentions than you.
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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted January 26, 2019 03:11 AM

artu said:
Vegans ... should be admired for their deeper level of empathy. They are not a problem, they are on a path to a more civilized set of norms. To mud-sling such an effort is simply trying to bring down people who have better intentions than you.


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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted January 26, 2019 05:37 AM

No, they maybe have better intention regarding a few species, but a bunch of them are hysterical zealots which will have no regret burning down meat stores therefore put the butcher and everyone around him on unemployment list and unable to support his family. Thats the crunch nowadays, everytime someone is haunted by virtue signalling obsessions - gender, vegan, feminism, the higher morals pretext comes in, because it is hardly quantifiable. When you disrupt the balance which worked for thousands of years - without taking the time to properly test realistic alternatives (have you idea about the cost of a vegan meal or/and the time it requires to gather the components), there is always someone else which will suffer from. Also the slavery argument is old and smoked, as is constantly used as an example to promote full scale decadence, at every level.  

I fully agree on the part where making animals suffer is unbearable. But also using more "humane" methods of killing has a cost. Who will support it and will it remain feasible to nourish everyone at a higher cost? I strongly doubt.
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Blizzardboy
Blizzardboy


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
posted January 26, 2019 08:38 AM
Edited by Blizzardboy at 08:47, 26 Jan 2019.

Ah yes. Pointing out the wild extremities with an underpinning smugness and desire to castigate the entire community. Smells a lot like the same tactics used to justify racism.

Vegetarianism and Veganism are lifestyles of the future that demonstrate an ecological superiority over the unwashed meat-eating masses. Bow before your new overlord, Gallic snail-murdering barbarian.

They've gotten good enough using quality products such as soy that imitation meat is pretty close to the real thing, and has the added benefit of decreasing masculinity, which let's be honest: is toxic and inherently vile compared to morally superior feminine attributes. The future is female.

btw, a person who eats fish/seafood but not other meat is known as a pescatarian (after Pisces ofc)
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 26, 2019 08:39 AM

Talk about hysterical zealots ...

Replace animals with slaves and vegans with Christians - good Roman senator speech, then, 2000 years back.

Mind you, nowadays a "butcher" is an artisan. The criticism is about Slaughterhouses where no one can be called "butcher" - the people working there might be described as cattle processors.

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AlHazin
AlHazin


Promising
Supreme Hero
النور
posted January 26, 2019 10:32 AM

The same Christians who used the bible 1500 years after to justify enslaving black people, I guess African animals will remain eaten by vegans. I’m doing this flawed comparison so you get that there is no point into comparing like you do, it doesn’t work this way.

Most people who are vegans simply dislike meat in the beginning then they rise their taste into some kind of divine fight to cover themselves with glory, not giving any clues on what to do with those animals after being set free or the rights they should have and so on. If you are going to right laws they better be logical, not that western laws often are.

For once in his life that Salamandre is right, vegans don’t know and don’t want to know all what lies behind the revolution they are promoting. People who have too much money and too much free time.
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Geny
Geny


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted January 26, 2019 10:48 AM

Quote:
Most people who are vegans simply dislike meat in the beginning

That's just not true, at least not in my experience. Most of vegetarians and vegans that I know started out as meat lovers. Some of them even admitted to still miss the taste of meat, but won't touch for ideological reasons.
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted January 26, 2019 11:29 AM

@Sal

Once norms change a new economy will slowly remodel after it, besides that is way into the future, vegans are an extreme minority now and by the time things really change, we will most probably have “meat farms” of genetically engineered artificial meat. Saying something is “unbearable” and then ridiculing the people who actually do something about it and giving a few overzealous examples to justify the ridicule is simply senseless. That’s like judging people who oppose mass immigration by giving the example of neo-nazis. And for every overzealous vegan out there, I’ve seen at least a hundred people who ridicule the modest ones, so it is not exactly them escalating things.

Also, if we are talking about the cost of things, the domestication economy is not sustainable in the long term anyway, it has ecological harm that goes way beyond just economical disaster. The methane gas cows release in the atmosphere is insane, it is about 18 percent of the total, if I remember correctly. The bio-mass of domesticated animals surpassed even life in the oceans by far: Link Things are gonna change one way or the other.
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Kipshasz
Kipshasz


Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
posted January 26, 2019 01:00 PM

lmao at Kebab Joseph Watson to be triggered over the term 'soy boy'. which in most cases has nothing to do with the veganism. more so to describe a weak and pathetic beta male with 'woke and progressive' beliefs.


that said, back on topic. so now Putin's approval rating is what, 127%?
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted January 26, 2019 01:15 PM

I am not “triggered” by it since nobody calls me that, but yes, my basic objection was to the term since it is a dumb thing to call people, even if your target is not vegans, the content of insult is veganism itself.

I also dont like Sal constantly using the soy boy attack against blizz and verriker in every disagreement, he can be above such dumb rhetoric when he wants to and the others are cool dudes in my book.
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AlHazin
AlHazin


Promising
Supreme Hero
النور
posted January 26, 2019 02:47 PM

Geny said:
Quote:
Most people who are vegans simply dislike meat in the beginning

That's just not true, at least not in my experience. Most of vegetarians and vegans that I know started out as meat lovers. Some of them even admitted to still miss the taste of meat, but won't touch for ideological reasons.


You mean they reached the holy land?
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