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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Speed upgrade for slowest units?
Thread: Speed upgrade for slowest units? This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT»
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 15, 2019 08:17 AM

Poll Question:
Speed upgrade for slowest units?

In Heroes 3 there are 5 units (Peasants, Dwarves, Walking Dead, Stone Golems and Dendroid Guards) with speed 3, making them terrible to carry around the adventure map and as offensive units in combat.

How would you feel about them having speed 4 instead of 3?



Responses:
It is fine how it is.
Change the speed of some of the units. (Post which)
Change the speed of all of the units.
Don't know/care.
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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted June 15, 2019 08:34 AM

I have voted option #2, but here is the thing...

Normally (from a logical and realistic point of view) all these units should be slow, simply because.... well, they are slow by nature

However - and since this is a fantasy game, so we can leave logic aside for the greater good of the game - I think the speed of some of the creatures can be improved without any devastating effect.

As such, I think the zombies, golems and peasants could use a +1 to speed. Dendroids are too strong overall to make them fast, too, while dwarves are also pretty strong for a tier 2 creature, especially that they have good specials, too.

Just my opinion, but what do I know? I only play against the AI anyway
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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 15, 2019 08:53 AM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 08:54, 15 Jun 2019.

I agree they should be slow and they still are when upgraded.
But Dwarves and Golems goes from 3 to 5 while Walking Dead and Dendroids go from 3 to 4, so at least for Dwarves and Golems they would still have different speed from their upgraded versions if given +1 speed.

It would however mean that Dwarven Treasuries would become a bit harder and if Walking Dead were changed HotA's Churchyard would become harder. If Dendroids were changed, fightning them in their dwellings would become harder, so as always there is stuff to think about.

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted June 15, 2019 09:08 AM

um... I'm not familiar with HotA, so when I post these things I'm having SoD in mind, or WoG anyway. But not HotA

As for the treasury and churchyard becoming more difficult to take... so what? Aren't people always complaining about not getting enough thrill out of HoMM anymore? At least this way you're gonna give them a better challenge, because instead of day 1-2 they will have to visit the treasuries day 4-5 or later. But anyway, I think the pros of the game will still have no trouble taking the treasuries in day 1-2 regardless of the speed, it's just that they might lose more creatures. No big deal in my opinion
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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 15, 2019 09:55 AM

I agree, but you know how Heroes 3 fans can be pretty conservative about their beloved 20 year old game. Perhaps they would'nt like if it could somehow delay their development, because of Treasuries, Crypts, Churchyards etc. would become harder to take. (I don't think it would make it much harder though.)

It justs feels like a drag carrying these slow creatures around and when they offer to join, you might even wanna say no, because they slow your army down a lot.

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted June 15, 2019 10:04 AM

exactly my point. Since they're not gonna impact the game too much and people will still ignore them why not make them faster then? It won't hurt
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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 15, 2019 10:50 AM

Still ignore them?, you mean they won't take them with them or let them join? You think that is also the case with speed 4 units? So Zombies and Dendroid Soldiers are best left in town?

I did in fact at one point give all 5 creatures +1 speed, the only problem is that Walking Dead and Zombies and Dendroid Guards and Dendroid Soldiers will all have speed 4, which might be less interesting...

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted June 15, 2019 11:15 AM

they might join them, but they're not gonna carry them along on the adventure map even if they had that extra +1 speed. That's what I meant. Personally, I don't understand why everyone is crazy with speed, but I always prefer defense over speed. Gimme my tazar and you can have all the speed you want, I couldn't care less
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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 15, 2019 11:20 AM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 11:21, 15 Jun 2019.

I think speed is one of the most important aspects of the game. It has 3 effects, movement range on map, movement range in combat AND initiative, so that is basically 3 stats in 1. That's why I think speed is VERY important and also why Haste/Slow and to a smaller degree Prayer is so important.

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted June 15, 2019 01:12 PM

phoenix4ever said:
I think speed is one of the most important aspects of the game. It has 3 effects, movement range on map, movement range in combat AND initiative, so that is basically 3 stats in 1. That's why I think speed is VERY important and also why Haste/Slow and to a smaller degree Prayer is so important.


not for me. To paraphrase agent Smith from Matrix, who had said "tell me, mr anderson: what good is it a phone if you can't speak?" or something like this, I can say the same: what good is speed for if you can't win (against tazar you can't win). I'm exaggerating here a bit, obviously, cause you can win against any hero, but the point remains: defense is better than speed, especially in h3 where mages are weaker than warriors
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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 15, 2019 02:21 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 14:23, 15 Jun 2019.

It does'nt really matter how much defense Tazar has, if he gets bombarded by Armageddon/Implosion/Chain Lightning every turn. Of course if Tazar has Orb of Inhibition or Recanters Cloak, he will be a very fearsome opponent.

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted June 15, 2019 03:08 PM

yes, if...

How many times have you seen tazar losing to heavy spellcasters? Theoretically it can happen, but in practice that's rarely true. And even if it happens, I still don't care. I prefer defense over anything else. It's my thing, and period!
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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 15, 2019 03:16 PM

Fine, then.
Personally I think speed is the most important factor, also on the adventure map. But it is nice when your creatures can take a beating and it's also important.
I believe you are a Rampart and Fortress fan and so am I, because their units are durable. (Except poor Gold Dragons)

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted June 15, 2019 03:41 PM

?!? What about the "poor gold dragons"? They're pretty sturdy... and immune to magic... and faster than the black dragons, since you seem so fond of speed
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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 15, 2019 04:10 PM

Yes, but they can be blasted by Implosion, but not resurrected.

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted June 15, 2019 05:13 PM

orb of vulnerability, my friend. Orb of vulnerability
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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 15, 2019 08:22 PM

Yes, but you wont always have that and if you have the Resistance skill (like the 3 dwarven Rangers) it will become useless.

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted June 15, 2019 08:26 PM

and you won't always have implosion, either. Or enough spell power to justify killing a few dragons instead of mass hasting / slowing armies, which is much better from a tactical PoV.

Yes, I have seem implosion winning games, but that's been like 5-10% (just a rough estimate) of the fights, and that's not as gamebreaking as is mass slow / haste for example. Or mass berserker
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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 15, 2019 08:35 PM

Of course it depends on how you play the game, but when an Implosion can wipe out 20 Gold Dragons instantly, with them having no chance of coming back, it feels unfair. If any Gold Dragons are left after that, the hero can just do it again next turn and when they are gone he can move on to War Unicorns and so on.
Implosion (and Armageddon) might not be OP alone, but what if it's a Sorcery specialist (Malekith is a good example) that has Earth or Fire orb, he can wipe out your army with a few offensive spells, now that is power!

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Oddball13579
Oddball13579


Supreme Hero
Thread Destroyer
posted June 15, 2019 08:44 PM

phoenix4ever said:
Implosion can wipe out 20 Gold Dragons instantly, with them having no chance of coming back, it feels unfair. If any Gold Dragons are left after that, the hero can just do it again next turn
I always felt that Gold Dragons should be immune to all spells. Just like Black Dragons. It always bugged me that Golds are only immune up to level 4.
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