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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Isn't Castle one of the strongest town?
Thread: Isn't Castle one of the strongest town? This thread is 15 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 · «PREV / NEXT»
Oddball13579
Oddball13579


Supreme Hero
Grandmaster of the Hunt
posted September 19, 2019 11:12 PM

"Expert Resistance: endows a hero's troops with 20% magic resistance."

"Magic Mirror Expert effect; Enemy spells cast on targeted, allied troop has a 40% chance of being redirected to a random enemy troop."

Resistance means completely nullifying the spell. Much like Dwarves. Magic Mirror reflects enemy spells onto an enemy stack. So two different effects, but combined it gives either a chance to nullify it, or reflect it.

Plus you can bump up the Resistance chance with Unicorns, as they have a Magic Resistance aura (20%) that applies to adjacent stacks. So if you have Expert Resistance and your Gold Dragons next to your Unicorns that's a 40% chance to resist spells. Which can be further boosted with artifacts that boost resistance. Then you add Magic Mirror on top of that and you've got an 80% chance for magic to not affect your Gold Dragons.  

Of course, this is all moot cause HotA changed Resistance to lower enemy spell power instead of a chance to resist spells. Which I think completely ruins Resistance. Might as well call it Dampening now.
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monere
monere


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted September 19, 2019 11:50 PM

@ohforfsake... probably - and this is just speculation - how this works is that Resistance and Magic Mirror have different priorities when triggering. So, for example, let's say that Magic Resistance has priority before Magic Mirror. Well, when the enemy casts a spell against an Expert Magic Resistant creature which also has Magic Mirror cast upon it there's a 20% (or whatever the value for expert MR is) that the spell is blocked. If the spell goes through then Magic Mirror kicks in with its 40% chance of being reflected.... I think this is how it works... or, at least that's how it should work in theory

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted September 20, 2019 12:21 AM

Why would anyone willingly cast magic mirror?
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monere
monere


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted September 20, 2019 12:25 AM

Elvin said:
Why would anyone willingly cast magic mirror?
for the fun of it. Also, the spell itself is not bad. But the mass spells are too good in H3, making some of the higher level spells look really bad.

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monere
monere


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted September 20, 2019 01:08 AM

OhforfSake said:
@Monere That is also what I expect. If true, then hopefully Magic Mirror is checked for first, otherwise Resistance would reduce the chance of reflecting a spell.
correct

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Oddball13579
Oddball13579


Supreme Hero
Grandmaster of the Hunt
posted September 20, 2019 04:24 AM

monere said:
@ohforfsake... probably - and this is just speculation - how this works is that Resistance and Magic Mirror have different priorities when triggering. So, for example, let's say that Magic Resistance has priority before Magic Mirror. Well, when the enemy casts a spell against an Expert Magic Resistant creature which also has Magic Mirror cast upon it there's a 20% (or whatever the value for expert MR is) that the spell is blocked. If the spell goes through then Magic Mirror kicks in with its 40% chance of being reflected.... I think this is how it works... or, at least that's how it should work in theory
Yeah that's how it should work in theory.

Also I like to use the higher level spells to make the game more fun. Constantly relying on all the mass spells just makes the game really boring to me.
____________
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monere
monere


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted September 20, 2019 09:04 AM

Oddball13579 said:
Yeah that's how it should work in theory.

Also I like to use the higher level spells to make the game more fun. Constantly relying on all the mass spells just makes the game really boring to me.
of course. I do it, too

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted September 20, 2019 01:54 PM

Slayer and Magic Mirror deserves to be mass spells at expert level. They are level 4 and 5 spells, so they should at least be useful occationally.

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monere
monere


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted September 20, 2019 02:55 PM

phoenix4ever said:
Slayer and Magic Mirror deserves to be mass spells at expert level. They are level 4 and 5 spells, so they should at least be useful occationally.
yep. They (the devs) figured this out, too, which is why they created mass slayer in H4. Magic Mirror, though... it remained the same crappy less used spell as in H3

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Oddball13579
Oddball13579


Supreme Hero
Grandmaster of the Hunt
posted September 20, 2019 10:06 PM

phoenix4ever said:
Slayer and Magic Mirror deserves to be mass spells at expert level. They are level 4 and 5 spells, so they should at least be useful occationally.
Agreed
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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 21, 2019 12:37 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 00:40, 21 Sep 2019.

Its pointless to use HotA resistance, at least I think there is a checkbox to revert it to original H3 at launch. Isn't there?

Quote:
The resurrection part of Sacrifice does'nt work on Gold Dragons, only the sacrifice part.


I asked long ago for HotA to fix this but they haven't. (suppossedly the whole of sacrifice should be a level 5 spell, not only half)
To make matters worse sacrifice is better when cast over low level creatures to revivie high level ones, not viceversa.
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Never changing = never improving

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Oddball13579
Oddball13579


Supreme Hero
Grandmaster of the Hunt
posted September 21, 2019 01:10 AM

NimoStar said:
Its pointless to use HotA resistance, at least I think there is a checkbox to revert it to original H3 at launch. Isn't there?
No there isn't. I just checked both HD Launcher and HotA Launcher. No such thing.
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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 21, 2019 02:55 AM

Too bad. I seem to remember it used to be one of the options. Oh well. i don't get their design philosophy, Resistance was a very balanced skill and they "rebalance it", while others that were actually unusable (useless) are still unusable.
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Never changing = never improving

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Oddball13579
Oddball13579


Supreme Hero
Grandmaster of the Hunt
posted September 21, 2019 05:45 AM

I actually loathe the new Resistance. They took a perfectly reasonable skill like you said, and ruined it. Like it is literally called Resistance, and doesn't help you resist snow. Might as well call it Dampening or something like that.

And you're right, they "rebalanced" a skill that didn't need to be in any way shape or form, yet meanwhile, skills like First Aid and Eagle Eye are still awful.
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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted September 21, 2019 07:54 AM

Oddball I 100% agree with you.
There IS an option to get the classic Resistance skill though. In the HotA launcher it's called "Activate test updates".

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted September 21, 2019 12:34 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 12:36, 21 Sep 2019.

I guess resistance is just too much of a showstopper. Either it turns the tide completely, or does nothing. Not the greatest thing if battles are decided by a 20% dice roll. Easy example would be if you blind the opponent's snowball stack but resist getting yours blinded. That's pretty much a victory right there. Same if you try to counter the opponent's haste with a slow and it gets resisted by his snowball stack, extreme disadvantage.

Whereas First Aid or Eagle Eye are not toxic towards the gameplay because they are useless and nobody takes them. Though I did hear about some peeps using some First Aid + strong unit on certain maps, but I guess it's entirely situational since you need to have that unit in the first place.

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Oddball13579
Oddball13579


Supreme Hero
Grandmaster of the Hunt
posted September 21, 2019 08:24 PM
Edited by Oddball13579 at 20:25, 21 Sep 2019.

phoenix4ever said:
Oddball I 100% agree with you.
There IS an option to get the classic Resistance skill though. In the HotA launcher it's called "Activate test updates".
Oh! Well that is good to know. Is that option also on the HD Launcher? I suppose it doesn't really matter.

Doomforge said:
I guess resistance is just too much of a showstopper. Either it turns the tide completely, or does nothing. Not the greatest thing if battles are decided by a 20% dice roll. Easy example would be if you blind the opponent's snowball stack but resist getting yours blinded. That's pretty much a victory right there. Same if you try to counter the opponent's haste with a slow and it gets resisted by his snowball stack, extreme disadvantage.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, if one spell dictates the outcome of your battle, you aren't playing the game right (this is ignoring spells like Resurrect and Sacrifice, I am talking about the spells mentioned above, like Slow or Haste). Oh well my opponent resisted the Slow, time to adjust my strategy. Will it make the battle a bit more difficult and dealing with his units a tad more problematic? Most definitely. Doesn't mean I automatically lose.  

Also why would anyone counter a Blind with another Blind. If the opponent had half a brain they'd probably respond with a Cure/Dispel.  

Also Battle Dwarves have a better chance of resisting a spell than a creature who's Hero has Expert Resistance.
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"Just slide her down a bit farther. I could wear her like a hat." - Gnomes

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted September 21, 2019 08:57 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 21:01, 21 Sep 2019.

Oddball13579 said:
I've said it before and I'll say it again, if one spell dictates the outcome of your battle, you aren't playing the game right (this is ignoring spells like Resurrect and Sacrifice, I am talking about the spells mentioned above, like Slow or Haste).


Then stop saying this because it's wrong. A single spell in the correct moment may win you the game.

Oddball13579 said:
Oh well my opponent resisted the Slow, time to adjust my strategy.


You may not have the opportunity to recover from a first strike if it's done properly. Casting mass haste/slow and countering it properly is probably among the few things you absolutely need to learn if you want to have a chance against good players online.

Oddball13579 said:
Will it make the battle a bit more difficult and dealing with his units a tad more problematic? Most definitely. Doesn't mean I automatically lose.


Used to playing AI? against a thinking human, the 1st turn advantage is usually impossible to recover from. Whomever wins 1st round will likely win the combat altogether.

Oddball13579 said:
Also why would anyone counter a Blind with another Blind. If the opponent had half a brain they'd probably respond with a Cure/Dispel.


disabling the opponent's snowball stack may be of higher importance than healing your own - if his is better than yours. That's what a full brained opponent would do. I guess the "half a brain" one would indeed attempt to cure his stack and get chewed up in return.

Oddball13579 said:
Also Battle Dwarves have a better chance of resisting a spell than a creature who's Hero has Expert Resistance.


And how many Battle Dwarves snowballs have you seen when fighting other people?

I've seen it utilized by hipster players a couple times but in general blinding a unit with like 40 damage per population, slow speed, melee, walking, and without a "conservatory" type of building to stack them isn't high on the priority list. Hence, they may as well have more magic resistance and it will not be that much of a problem. Unlike a stack of wyverns or angels resisting blind once you cast it after opponent's slow, for example. That very well may cost you a game because you cannot recover from a slow and will get counterslowed/counterhasted every turn you attempt it. It's basically giving the opponent a free slow/haste.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted September 21, 2019 09:11 PM

Oddball13579 said:
I've said it before and I'll say it again, if one spell dictates the outcome of your battle, you aren't playing the game right

Oddball, you are officially dubbed as the AI Slayer
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 22, 2019 12:18 AM

Your can bypass the Resistance entirely by just casting spells on their OWN creatures. So if they don't want the battle to be decided by "random" (H3 has many randoms...), they can bypass it completely by using other strategies.

Plus, Dwarves and Unicorns still use the old Magic Resistance so what is the point of using it for some things and not others?
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Never changing = never improving

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