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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: I got ideas of a new town, but haven't come up with a name for it
Thread: I got ideas of a new town, but haven't come up with a name for it This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT»
Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted August 22, 2019 07:43 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 19:58, 22 Aug 2019.

No, I work with WoG, where you can control every square. This is how I made Atlantis mod to look as a planet every time you visit (minimap), while everything around just vanishes. Here is the complet minimap, which you get never to see

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LordInsane
LordInsane


Adventuring Hero
posted August 22, 2019 07:57 PM

longtry said:
Hey, before this thread I barely know about the lore, but after these comments I feel I've learnt a bunch! Moreover, now I know what some of your desire/preference is. @zydar & @LordInsane both plan for a new faction from Jadame, but while zydar kind of wanting the whole continent('s creatures), LI focus on a race & a town named Kontor, which emphasizes trade. @verriker has some very interesting observations & ideas, which I'll cover far down.

In truth, I do prefer going outside a single race. Outside Castle, single-race towns are not truly a thing in Heroes 3 (and in Heroes 2, even the Knights were not limited to a single race amongst their heroes). I could see two different axis of theming for a prospective Jadamean town: a wererat-dark elf commerce town (the wererats not involved with the Cult of Eep tended to be involved with smuggling, and one of the main coves of the Wererat Smugglers was near Ravenshore, one of the primary settlements of the Dark Elves), or a dark dwarf-dark elf-troll 'twisted Rampart' town.
longtry said:
This is the paragraph that I'd been wanting to expand on cause it gave me such a wonderful idea, but I was a bit lazy yesterday. Today, equipped with those great maps you guys provided, I can create a lore that somewhat is able to bridge @zydar & @LI's ideas to the new town. Keep in mind that because my lore knowledge is limited, the following may contain heaps of errors. Therefore, all the places & hero names & things... are just placeholders and are subjected to change, based on your suggestions for correction.

HISTORY OF THE ACADEMIA
Not too long ago, in a rural province of Kontor, there was a young dark elf named Tani. S/He (we'll vote on the gender, for now I'll use he for short) was born on the day the great traveler Magelan set sail on an ambitious trip around the world by both routes East-West and North-South, visiting all 3 continents in 1 voyage for the 1st time. Growing up, Tani took Magelan as his idol and always wanted to follow his steps, or at least visit him. BTW, Magelan didn't return home, instead he chose to settle in Bracada, the end of his journey and found a league that is very successful and has since spread to every faction in Antagarich: the Mage Guild.

His kingdom of the dark elves now was in a golden age of trading, but it was pretty much limited within the continent, since the intercontinental merchandises were most often intercepted and lost by Regnan pirates. Determined not to let those most lucrative trades to get away from hands, its queen Lisabel announced all over the country, promising great prize for anyone who could come up with an effective measure. Tani, having lost his father and 2 uncles from 1 of those raids, also had been thinking for a way to prevent the Regnans for some time. He came up with many ideas, some good, a few bad, but nobody listened to his best one yet. Heard of the queen's open invitation, he realized this might be his chance to fulfill his childhood dream. Thus he traveled to Kontor for a pitch.

Before the regal yet graceful queen, Tani was in lost of words. Fortunately he regained his wit when asked about his goal for this venture, where he told her many things from Magelan to the pirates' nightmare: the convoy. Despite living in the palace most of her life, the queen was surprisingly adept at the trades of mercantile itself and other things. Luckily for Tani, he has some years of experience on a small merchant ship, thus not a total newbie. He proposed to bring an small armada to Antagarich and settle a base there. From that station, he'd organize monthly, or even biweekly convoys to Enroth as well as receive convoys from his homeland, so now individual ships wouldn't have to go alone into the vast ocean of unknown.

Although her advisors doubted the brand new concept of convoys and scorned the boldness of such a 'green child', Lisabel was persuaded by Tani's youthful passion. But still prudential, she put him on a quest to gather manpower and goods for what would be officially the 1st royal trade mission. Tani would have to prove himself capable of this preparation task before he can head for a new continent.

Thus began the 1st player campaign: The goods of a mission.
(to be continued)

A point of clarity: I referred to the town as Kontor in the sense of Castle/Rampart/Dungeon, etc. - a kontor was a foreign trading post of the Hanseatic League, so it seemed fitting for a commerce-focused town, and a bit less... bland than simply City.
The actual region of the Dark Elves is trickier, but their main cities are Ravenshore and Alvar. There is no indication they have a monarchy - affairs of government appear to be handled by the Merchant's Guild of Alvar (there was an empire covering southern Jadame, the Amberlian Empire, but that collapsed over five hundred years before even Heroes 2). I shall have to replay MM8 and see what it says about the timing of major conflicts with the pirates - there were texts, but I do not remember off-hand when they indicate.
Dj said:
The Mage Guild is only the building. For example, for the wizards, the institute could be called Council/Committee/Convocation of Bracada. For the druidic elves, Circle of the Elders, for the tatalian witches, Sisterhood of the Swamps.

Or simply apply this formula: magic class name + faction name: the Druids of AvLee, the Wizards of Bracada, the Clerics of Erathia, but I don't find it correct to assume that the Mage Guild league is one and the same for all factions.

Btw, do we have anywhere in the M&M games such terms?


In a way that contradicts the existence of a single united Guild - individual Guilds for individual Schools, or sometimes categories (eg. a Self Guild or Mind/Spirit/Body Guilds).

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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted August 22, 2019 07:58 PM

Salamandre said:
Here is the complet minimap
??? what the phuck is this thing, and why? What creature are those that are 500 of in each stack? And why does this thing look like heroes 3, but it's not heroes 3? I'm so confused...

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted August 22, 2019 08:03 PM

yeah I took a few steps outside the lore

But only a few

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Oddball13579
Oddball13579


Supreme Hero
Thread Destroyer
posted August 22, 2019 08:06 PM

Salamandre said:
No, I work with WoG, where you can control every square. This is how I made Atlantis mod to look as a planet every time you visit (minimap), while everything around just vanishes. Here is the complet minimap, which you get never to see
Damn that is actually really awesome. I bow before your map making expertise.

@LordInsane: Can we please refrain from quoting huge chunks of text please? I've been scrolling for days

@monere: Sal used WOG, that's why the map looks different and the creatures don't look the same.
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"I would have needed to dislocate my jaw to fit it inside my hole." - Blizzardboy

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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted August 22, 2019 08:19 PM

I played WoG before (actually, I've only been playing WoF for the last decade), but none of the WoG creatures look anything like those thumbnails. And in the video that he's referenced... that looks like a completely different game, but with the H3 interface. What game is that?

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Oddball13579
Oddball13579


Supreme Hero
Thread Destroyer
posted August 22, 2019 08:24 PM

Hmmmm you are right. Maybe it's VCMI? Idk.

Could be a lot of things.
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"Everyone is a schlong sucker." - Kayna
"I would have needed to dislocate my jaw to fit it inside my hole." - Blizzardboy

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted August 22, 2019 08:31 PM

no guys, is heroes 3 - WoG. WoG is a kitchen, with all tools, I made a different dish than the one you ate played.

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LordInsane
LordInsane


Adventuring Hero
posted August 22, 2019 08:36 PM

Oddball13579 said:
@LordInsane: Can we please refrain from quoting huge chunks of text please? I've been scrolling for days

Hard to indicate what context one is referring to without quoting when other posts have been made in the interim and/or the post in question covers more than what you are responding to, no?
I will try to cut more fiercely, though it is unfortunate Heroes Community does not seem to have a Spoiler Tag option.

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Oddball13579
Oddball13579


Supreme Hero
Thread Destroyer
posted August 22, 2019 08:40 PM
Edited by Oddball13579 at 20:41, 22 Aug 2019.

LordInsane said:
though it is unfortunate Heroes Community does not seem to have a Spoiler Tag option.
Now that is a really good idea! You could always break your quotes up into smaller chunks as well to help minimize the length of the post.

Also Sal that dish you made me last night was absolutely atrocious, way to much salt.  
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"I would have needed to dislocate my jaw to fit it inside my hole." - Blizzardboy

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted August 22, 2019 08:54 PM

Dj said:
@verriker, thanks for that info. I m missing a lot of information from the M&M games and it is probably 80-90% of the lore and i dont know exactly what is false or true.

Though you gotta admit that the term 'Enroth' is used because of the Enrothian Empire being the one who writes history in our area of action. The tatalians probably call the world otherwise in their folk stories, but they are not as evolved as the human/elven civilizations in order to document their folklore. The barbarians too and actually any almost primitive civilization.


I would be reasonably sure Enroth is the canonical name the Ancients give to the world and all the rest took after that, name Enroth is pretty similar to the name Axeoth which is a whole different planet so more than likely the names are originating from a third party (actually for NWC MM10 they would have had Ancients refer to it as Research Platform Enroth so that almost settles it) lol

Dj said:
Do you know where this piece of information can be found? Is there an in-game book, quest log or anything that lists the three continents on this planet? Im asking because i have not played the M&M games.


it was called the world of Enroth in MM6 manual, MM8 manual and some other places in the games I will not bother to catalogue unless you really need, also no there's not really a book or what listing all the continents neat and tidy, it is just an observed fact that the released games have three continents (there could very well be others nobody heard of, after all nobody heard of Jadame until MM8) lol

longtry said:
This is the paragraph that I'd been wanting to expand on cause it gave me such a wonderful idea, but I was a bit lazy yesterday. Today, equipped with those great maps you guys provided, I can create a lore that somewhat is able to bridge @zydar & @LI's ideas to the new town. Keep in mind that because my lore knowledge is limited, the following may contain heaps of errors. Therefore, all the places & hero names & things... are just placeholders and are subjected to change, based on your suggestions for correction.


interesting lore, well there is a Magellan in Heroes 2 and a Tanni who is a bard so the names might work or want a swap but just for info, other than that indeed I would have a closer look at MM8 to get a clearer notion of the Dark Elf realm and society, I will send you a text dump if it will help and you can CTRL+F for info lol

premise is nicely written but maybe you can afford to tie it more to Heroes 3 world events, maybe the Dark Elves will strike a contract with some jerkass in Antagarich to achieve something or otherwise have some compelling purpose to go back there beyond the lovely lovely money, perhaps even got inspired by Roland and Catherine to get out more lol

Oddball13579 said:
@longtry: If you want to go with Jadame/East Jadame you could add werewolves to the town lineup. Werebeasts have been a part of the lore for sometime, although only werewolves show up. And I think they originate from Jadame.


a bit wide of the mark there again sorry to you on that, the world additionally has Wererats which I and the chap previously mentioned and Werewolves are actually in MM6 which is in Enroth lol
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Oddball13579
Oddball13579


Supreme Hero
Thread Destroyer
posted August 22, 2019 08:57 PM
Edited by Oddball13579 at 20:57, 22 Aug 2019.

verriker said:
a bit wide of the mark there again sorry to you on that, the world additionally has Wererats which I and the chap previously mentioned and Werewolves are actually in MM6 which is in Enroth lol


Honestly I should just shoot myself right now. It appears I can't remember anything correctly when it comes to Heroes/MM lore lol
____________
"Everyone is a schlong sucker." - Kayna
"I would have needed to dislocate my jaw to fit it inside my hole." - Blizzardboy

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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted August 22, 2019 09:18 PM

Oddball13579 said:
It appears I can't remember anything correctly when it comes to Heroes/MM lore lol
that's because you don't like the game

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Oddball13579
Oddball13579


Supreme Hero
Thread Destroyer
posted August 22, 2019 11:23 PM

HOW DARE YOU

Heroes shall always remain my first love
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"I would have needed to dislocate my jaw to fit it inside my hole." - Blizzardboy

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longtry
longtry


Adventuring Hero
posted August 23, 2019 06:56 AM

It's starting to roll

Dj said:
The Mage Guild is only the building. For example, for the wizards, the institute could be called Council/Committee/Convocation of Bracada. For the druidic elves, Circle of the Elders, for the tatalian witches, Sisterhood of the Swamps.
Or simply apply this formula: magic class name + faction name: the Druids of AvLee, the Wizards of Bracada, the Clerics of Erathia, but I don't find it correct to assume that the Mage Guild league is one and the same for all factions.
Think of it as in football (soccer? ) term: nationally we have the FA, FIGC, FFF, DFB, RFEF... but continental-wise we have the UEFA. Of course, there are UEFA offices in each of the countries, right?

Oddball said:
If you want to go with Jadame/East Jadame you could add werewolves to the town lineup. Werebeasts have been a part of the lore for sometime, although only werewolves show up. And I think they originate from Jadame.
But you also said you wanted to go with a small nation feel. And Jadame isn't really "small" So I mean, Karigor I guess? Or Emerald Isle. You could base it out of Enroth if you really wanted to. That way you could be able to take creative liberties.
Yes, I've found a way to get various creatures into a town but still retain the small nation feel.Just you see
But there's 1 big confusion I'm having right now. Everyone talks about the Dark elf of Jadame, but the fandom link only says Enroth. So... is the website talking about the planet Enroth in general? And are Dark elves only present on Jadame? If so, do they have a united capital?

LI said:
A point of clarity: I referred to the town as Kontor in the sense of Castle/Rampart/Dungeon, etc. - a kontor was a foreign trading post of the Hanseatic League, so it seemed fitting for a commerce-focused town, and a bit less... bland than simply City.
The actual region of the Dark Elves is trickier, but their main cities are Ravenshore and Alvar. There is no indication they have a monarchy - affairs of government appear to be handled by the Merchant's Guild of Alvar (there was an empire covering southern Jadame, the Amberlian Empire, but that collapsed over five hundred years before even Heroes 2). I shall have to replay MM8 and see what it says about the timing of major conflicts with the pirates - there were texts, but I do not remember off-hand when they indicate.
Thank you for the valuable info! I'll change the city name & related things. Regarding the monarchy, as there is no indication, the creative power is in our hands. Please do replay MM8 & enjoy the experience again

Quote:
interesting lore, well there is a Magellan in Heroes 2 and a Tanni who is a bard so the names might work or want a swap but just for info, other than that indeed I would have a closer look at MM8 to get a clearer notion of the Dark Elf realm and society, I will send you a text dump if it will help and you can CTRL+F for info lol
premise is nicely written but maybe you can afford to tie it more to Heroes 3 world events, maybe the Dark Elves will strike a contract with some jerkass in Antagarich to achieve something or otherwise have some compelling purpose to go back there beyond the lovely lovely money, perhaps even got inspired by Roland and Catherine to get out more lol
So the legendary traveler is named Majegild now and the young hero Elti Thanks for the heads-up, I'd love whatever text you're gonna dump if it helps!

Your recommendation is precisely what I expect from all of you guys' help. In the upcoming parts, there will be plot points where Elti can't achieve his original goals because of the intricate politics between Antagarich nations. Because of a hole in lore knowledge, I'll leave those events in board open blankets [] waiting for you guys to offer the details.


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Hero_of_Light
Hero_of_Light


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted August 23, 2019 12:09 PM

The Lore of Heroes of Might and Magic is vast and interesting indeed. That's why I got a Series out of it, but I still don't know if I get everything right
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LordInsane
LordInsane


Adventuring Hero
posted August 23, 2019 01:36 PM

longtry said:
Yes, I've found a way to get various creatures into a town but still retain the small nation feel.Just you see
But there's 1 big confusion I'm having right now. Everyone talks about the Dark elf of Jadame, but the fandom link only says Enroth. So... is the website talking about the planet Enroth in general? And are Dark elves only present on Jadame? If so, do they have a united capital?

It does refer to the world of Enroth in general (since the site also covers Ubisoft's games, it is important to specify they are not Ashan dark elves). Insofar as was revealed in the games, the dark elves are only present on Jadame, and Alvar at least de facto seems to serve as a united capital - as I mentioned the closest thing shown to a government is named the Merchant's Guild of Alvar (who are fully empowered to enter into alliances as  the equal of kings), and is headquartered there, led at the time of MM8 by Bastian Loudrin.
longtry said:
Thank you for the valuable info! I'll change the city name & related things. Regarding the monarchy, as there is no indication, the creative power is in our hands. Please do replay MM8 & enjoy the experience again


Well, arguably the absence of evidence is evidence of absence in this case, given we do hear of other monarchies, even the seemingly supplanted Regnan one, in MM8, and of course it was made quite clear Erathia, AvLee, Deyja (officially) and Stone City were monarchies in MM7, while there's not a single whiff of nobility in Ravenshore or Alvar.

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Oddball13579
Oddball13579


Supreme Hero
Thread Destroyer
posted August 23, 2019 08:19 PM

Yeah the Dark Elves of Enroth are more merchants and traders than anything else. Not like the Dark Elves of Ashan.
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"I would have needed to dislocate my jaw to fit it inside my hole." - Blizzardboy

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CountBezuhoff
CountBezuhoff


Famous Hero
Master of the merchant's guild
posted August 23, 2019 10:58 PM

Who cares about the lore? This is a fantasy world, not heraldy. Make a new continent up, make some more snow up, it doesn't really matter. Foolishly limiting your imagination because of some timeline incogruity is not the way of Heroes.

The Count
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zydar
zydar


Hired Hero
posted August 24, 2019 12:49 AM
Edited by zydar at 00:56, 24 Aug 2019.

we care about lore, because ubi lore is s***

but yes this is only game addon/mod/expansion, you can add anything what you want
based on lore/not, no restriction, The only limit is your imagination.

But we believe since there is no heroes game better than HOMM3,
the best heroes game, the best addon/mod/expansion is continue the old lore, the old universe
Since ubi abandoned old lore/universe, the fan can make expanded universe/expanded game for homm 3, not only for nostalgia
but the way to show dev/pub, they treat HoMM in wrong way
for ensure connectivity,spirit,mood, or anything we call "Heroes game" we must care about lore

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