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| Thread: How to create a stronger AI? | |
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted September 14, 2019 09:18 PM |
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How to create a stronger AI?
I recommened you create increase experience level, skill, and you give growing armies in every week also to less 50% neutral monsters. AI loves allied, so you can create 5 allied AI vs 1 human.
Example of A boastful for slight (H4GS) is light tuning. If you beat map, you can try quick combat or to increase experience level, skill, growing armies. Remember also use a Vital in AI property.
Other mapmakers never gave AI bonuses or poor/wrong bonuses in rare have seen. Important matter is experience level, skill, growing armies and lesser neutral monsters like H3. Because AI can't use/visit a quest, tree of knowledge, etc in H4. And AI hasn't growing bonus like RoE/SoD. Therefore you can create "better" AI in H4. What you can't create good AI in H3. It's difference thing.
Ok if you have something, tell us.
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted September 14, 2019 10:48 PM |
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I give AI weekly resources in map events (gold and every other type), it really helps them build their town since you can't recruit everything in H4 with just the normal daily gold and AI is not very good at flagging mines quickly.
Also sometimes they start with flagged neutral dwellings. AI will use caravans to their town.
Another trick is to give their heroes daily experience. Since your heroes will grow in strenght faster than them otherwise, this gives you a tocking clock to finish maps more quickly since they will keep levelling.
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Never changing = never improving
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monere
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted September 14, 2019 10:57 PM |
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NimoStar said:
I give AI weekly resources in map events (gold and every other type), it really helps them build their town since you can't recruit everything in H4 with just the normal daily gold and AI is not very good at flagging mines quickly.
Also sometimes they start with flagged neutral dwellings. AI will use caravans to their town.
Another trick is to give their heroes daily experience. Since your heroes will grow in strenght faster than them otherwise, this gives you a tocking clock to finish maps more quickly since they will keep levelling.
out of curiosity, does the AI have any chance of winning against good players if it keeps leveling up? I don't have H4 on this laptop, so I can't see this for myself...
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted September 14, 2019 11:10 PM |
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Depends on the rate of levelling experience you give it and how much time the player lets pass amongst other factors.
I would say that with 1000 xp per day in a large map + the resource bonuses, the AI can be a strong opponent.
But this trick is specially useful with an enemy hero that doesn't move or has a castle, in the type of a prepared "boss fight". Otherwise the player can just do anything before facing them and become much more stronger than intended.
By making the enemy level up as you do the challenge stays more balanced. In extreme cases you could make it one level per day, say, since day 40 every day the AI hero gets +1 level. This will really put pressure on the player (max level is 70)
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Never changing = never improving
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monere
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted September 15, 2019 10:49 AM |
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I see... ok then, why don't you make the AI level 70 from the get-go, landlock it somewhere where he can't bother you or make stupid mistakes, thus becoming weaker, and put time limit on your game (or other winning / losing conditions if they help you get a big challenge), and then go fight it when you're ready? Everyone (including myself) is complaining about the AI not posing a big threat, but there are ways to make it whoop your a55, so why not do it then?
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted September 15, 2019 11:36 AM |
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The optimal would be modular bonuses for AI, not sure if H4 has that scripting capability. That way, every player will face an AI matching his game-skills. Also, giving AI skill points or levels is not very relevant if he hasn't the right secondary skills, so you may want to set every AI hero with best skills possible.
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monere
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted September 15, 2019 12:23 PM |
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Edited by monere at 12:25, 15 Sep 2019.
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Salamandre said:
The optimal would be modular bonuses for AI, not sure if H4 has that scripting capability. That way, every player will face an AI matching his game-skills. Also, giving AI skill points or levels is not very relevant if he hasn't the right secondary skills, so you may want to set every AI hero with best skills possible.
that's what I'm doing whenever I play WoG. I custom the WoG options and the AI to something that I feel will give me a good challenge, and most of the time I am having a hard time defeating it. When I first tried heavy customization I made the AI so strong (army-wise and WoG customization-wise that I couldn't even beat it after many reloads).
But then, I figured out what the sweet spot for me is in terms of AI's build (arties, army quantity, creatures, skills, spells, etc) that I am genuinely having a hard time defeating it. And obviously that I never use diplomacy or CotUK. Ok, I use CotUK to clear the map easier since I also put time limit on my games but when final battle comes I remorselessly get rid of the legions of liches and only keep the right amount of them (based on my estimations of how many I would have gotten had I not assembled the lame artifact).
When you play with WoG options a little, and fight against level 70 Tazar / Crag Hack / Tamika (with 5000 Dread Knights) / Fafner, even Ryland, or Alkin abnd they have the right build (elixir of life, orb of vulnerability or inhibition, depending on your conditions, or even a simple Spirit of Oppresion if you play against Tamika), and knowing that you almost never reach level 70 on XL+U map... believe me that you'll have a hard time defeating the AI. I have had some games where I've had 10 more ATT and DEF than the AI, I have also had roughly 15% more creatures than the AI and yet, I haven't been able to defeat it from the first 3-4 tries.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted September 15, 2019 12:29 PM |
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Is not about AI having high levels as 70 but allowing him to move and level fast. For that, you definitely have to allow him full freedom, including access to your area early. Of course you don't feel AI is strong if you lock him then play at your pace. Let him attack you early then you will feel the challenge.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted September 15, 2019 01:04 PM |
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@Monere
If you want to keep beautiful or realistic statistics in Thieves Guild. So it give AI grows normally.
@Salamandre
H4 has many scripts. Example of AI moves near town, script gives town to AI, if AI step on event. Ok skills, yes you know about Homm. So Academy for Noble, Scouting, Order, Life and Death, and then Combat, for each team. Not Tactics. AI always takes Tactics. So first you give skills before you give experience level.
What I made Return to the Avenger. Example of Sir Dubious has basic Tactics, Defense, Combat and Melee. First day AI gets basic Offense, Leadership, Archery, Resistance and increased Attack and Defense by 35. Next scripts give example of Conditionalaction -> Greater than or equals [number of angels in this army] + [random number between 20 and 39] Then give 2 angels to this army in every 7 days, etc Next 40 between 60 gets 4 angels in every 7 days, it means 6 angels, etc. No hard tuned than Avenger got many bonuses like skills. Ok come back to the matter, AI Sir Dubious played well his skills with. And AI gets armies also to his garrison. But map isn't glorious, because map has largest neutral monsters. Why? I made multiplayer. So shouldn't be a long game than meets a large group immediately. A death match!
I'll make a snow/irritation map soon and send to m4h. 
EDIT: CONQUISTADOR I never played.
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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monere
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted September 15, 2019 03:27 PM |
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Edited by monere at 15:57, 15 Sep 2019.
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Salamandre said:
Is not about AI having high levels as 70 but allowing him to move and level fast. For that, you definitely have to allow him full freedom, including access to your area early. Of course you don't feel AI is strong if you lock him then play at your pace. Let him attack you early then you will feel the challenge.
it is about that, too. Armorer / Offense specialists benefit from this the most (and you know this, too).
And yes, I do feel that the AI is strong because I have witnessed it first-hand, so you can't tell me what to think when I have the experience on my side 
Last but not least, the AI is landlocked where it can't bother me, but I still allow it to fight and level up in order for it to get the other 2 skills that it needs to have all 10 skill slots occupied. And it needs to fight so that its creatures can get rank 10. I'm not sure how to explain, but sometimes - when/if I have access to the WoG maps that I play I might send you one or two (or send you the saves before the last battle) so you can see that the AI is pretty strong (remember, I only fight against heroes like Hack, Mephala, Kilgor, Mutare, Tamika, Fafner, Neela, Tazar, etc, and their specialties make them incredibly strong in WoG... even heroes like Monere and Rashka are hard to defeat with the bonuses that Efreets and Magic Elementals gain in WoG).
Actually... wait a minute! I see that I'm having 3 saves on my laptop. I don't remember when those saved are from, or if they are even good (some games I did have to abandon because of various reasons), but if the saves are good you can get a glimpse into what I'm trying to say, and who knows, you might even have a hard time defeat the AI yourself xD
Do you want me to upload those saves?
EDIT: I only have 2 saves, because the 3rd one is duplicate of another one, but saved under different name. Also, the tamika-fafner game is saved right before starting the duel. So, you just have to click on AI's hero and start the fight. I did this a minute ago but somewhere in the middle of the battle game crashed. It also crashes if you right click on fafner (so, on AI's hero) and you choose NO when the mysticism skill asks if you wish to see fafner's stats. If you click YES everything runs smoothly but if you click NO the game freezes and you have to go into Windows Task Manager to close it from there. This bug happens only when you have mysticism and you right click on enemy heroes and you choose NO.
Also, the other save (where I play monere against mephala) is only in month 8, so you'd still have to play 4 more months if you wish to see if the final battle is challenging enough. I don't remember why I've stopped playing that game in month 8 because when I'm in mood for H3 i usually finish the game, but you can give it a try if you have some hours of free time.
Also, the tamika-fafner fight is pretty easy, even for me. I hit 900 Titans with my 2100 Dread Knights (with death blow, too  ) and I killed 400+ Titans. And I also got luck on the 8500 dendroids that hit AI's 900+ Archangels after my Blood Dragons had aged them just previously and the dendroids with luck killed 586 AAs lol. Gotta love the trees, especially when they floor down AAs ... It's true that the AI's ghost behemoths floored down 1500 of my scorpicores in one hit, but those are casualties I can live with
Wish I had more saves of these amazing maps/duels, but I have left them in Romania on my desktop computer. Also, if I remember correctly the reason I play this type of game is because I want to see if I can match the AI's pre-set builds within 12 months, while at the same time creating all artifact combos in the game (and carrying them along in the final battle, obviously), gathering all spells and skills that I want, and at the same time still being able to defeat the AI while still wanting it to be a big challenge. It might sound weird, but I think that this is the logic behind the way I play H3. This is what makes me fun, so don't argue
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted September 15, 2019 04:42 PM |
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Yeah I remember something, Avenger team has over 4k Black Dragons, over 20k Goblin Knights, thousands Medusas and Minotaurs, legion Dark Champions, thousands Nightmares and Efreets, etc and only you get armies from your towns. Easy, but the magician twisted trick.
But if equivalent to Realm of Chaos (H3) something. It's more realistic grandmaster. Ok All for one (H3), you give a legion of archdevil to AI. So realistic is the best for me. I played too many times. Since I know what's the true and false. But stupid AI.
A good AI, you need realistic map. When a boastful for slight, AIs are playing really well also WoW campaign. It tell about good mapmaker and scripts.
____________
Fight MWMs - stand teach
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monere
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted September 15, 2019 07:03 PM |
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no idea what you're on about, ghost. One day I'll understand you. But not today
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iliveinabox05
Honorable
Famous Hero
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posted September 17, 2019 06:42 PM |
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We had a pretty lengthy discussion about ways to make the AI in H4 better here.
I didn't read everything in here, but another thing you can do to help out the AI is to reveal the entire map for the AI.
The H4 Advanced Options Map Editor can insert the various scripting events into the map of your choice (it can also remove all AI enhancing events).
You just select the bonuses you want to give the AI, and hit apply.
If you're interested in trying it out, the thread for the H4 Advanced Options Map Editor is here.
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted September 18, 2019 11:57 PM |
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Quote:
The optimal would be modular bonuses for AI, not sure if H4 has that scripting capability. That way, every player will face an AI matching his game-skills. Also, giving AI skill points or levels is not very relevant if he hasn't the right secondary skills, so you may want to set every AI hero with best skills possible.
There are not many variable "secondary skills" in H4 so you can discard that. At most you can ensure his hero has Strenght and Tactics. In a map you can give him altars with this or costomize their starting hero.
In any case you can do bonuses that change with milestones of player progress. H4 has full conditional modding.
For example, make the player completing a quest switch a hidden trigger that is checked every day for the enemy town. If the trigger is set, make the town build thje Grail building. Just a simple example.
I also give enemy armies extra movement per day so they can escape more easily, but this bonus is negated if the army is destroyed or they switch the hero to another.
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Never changing = never improving
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted October 02, 2019 06:27 PM |
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Now you can try a mythic maps. Light tuned! Untrue World I and II My only impossible map is Return to the Avenger.. But map is multiplayer. So later on I create impossible map in single player. Other impossible maps seem like expert in maps4heroes. How does AI become even more powerful? AI is "afraid" to towns, so use Eye of the Magi. I removed Eye of the Magi, because AI attacked only Haven in Untrue World II. I like more AI attack random towns. Please!
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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