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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Why is Lava so poor compared to other terrains?
Thread: Why is Lava so poor compared to other terrains?
Otuken
Otuken


Famous Hero
posted October 22, 2019 12:33 AM

Why is Lava so poor compared to other terrains?

Is it even explained?

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monere
monere


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted October 22, 2019 01:37 AM

do you ever find many things in lava terrain? I mean, in real life lava zones are inhabitable, so it makes sense for this type of terrain to be barren in HoMM, as well

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted October 22, 2019 02:02 AM

The argument that real life lava is inhabitable is moot when applied to Heroes, as authors decided full built Cities can develop in lava.

If games were mirror to reality, nobody would play. Lava clearly lacks balancing structures, game-play speaking. I mean, they could have come with some CBs inside volcanoes, or along lava rivers, probably they were just lazy about while making grass omnipotent.
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monere
monere


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted October 22, 2019 02:11 AM

nothing can be mirror to reality, but some realism must exist in every game so it can have a logic.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted October 22, 2019 02:29 AM

Sure, but is lava from H3 "real" lava, or just some symbolic landscape  where infernal creatures prosper?
If we consider it as THE inferno landscape, then we can come with creative ideas where wealth and armies are not obtained through map structures, as everyone else, but from some hellish procedures - slavery, torture, souls harvesting and such.

Also, imagine how much energy one civilization could benefit from controlling the terrestrial magma, this is similar to controlling sun's eruptions then exploit them.

Imo they lacked creative vision for lava then the balance is suffering from.  
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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted October 22, 2019 03:33 AM
Edited by bloodsucker at 11:44, 22 Oct 2019.

I thought you were talking about decorative objects like trees and mountains, something lava is also quite poor at but in fact lava doesn't have nothing, no crypts, no leprechauns, no stables, there isn't a single object that is related only to lava. And a devils bank would look nice.
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zmudziak22
zmudziak22


Supreme Hero
Heroes 3 Fan
posted October 22, 2019 11:34 AM

Yeah, all landscapes in Heroes 3 could be more balanced. I mean, grass have Griffin CB, which gives Angels, maybe we could fight Cerberi and Horned Demons to gain Devils or Efreets.

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monere
monere


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted October 22, 2019 11:44 AM

I'm just speculating here, but probably the reason that lava terrain has been (intentionally) kept poor has been to keep demon farming withing normal limits. Had Marius started gathering demons at the same pace as galthran is gathering skeletons it would be game over right there.

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Ghost
Ghost


Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
posted October 22, 2019 01:09 PM

Lava belonged to Inferno. And Demoniac gets Logistics easily, too Heretic. They go other landscapes, where are beautiful bonuses. Those pay move costs. If would be better to conquer directly. When stable and resources are ok, but something bonuses. Poor heroes could visit a water wheel and mystical garden. Castle, Rampart and Conflux need more than Inferno. Cunning! No poor! But too old version, H4 has all the same object, and the most important is pathfinding skill. The old legacy remained.
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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 22, 2019 02:38 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 14:39, 22 Oct 2019.

Well. In real life lava makes land very fertile. Look at tropical volcanic islands - full of green.

In h4 you can achieve this effect. In H3, sort of, only if you carefully superimpose tropical objects over volcanos, and use the special campaign editor to place objects anywhere.

I guess  other kind of objects need to be put in lava to make it "richer".
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Otuken
Otuken


Famous Hero
posted October 22, 2019 02:40 PM

I've encountered people who say "Inferno is sucks because lava is poor terrain" or "Lava is poor because of counterbalance". For a logical perspective all terrains should be equally rich in terms of resources.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 22, 2019 02:40 PM

In regards to random maps, can Lava be programmed to spawn with objects from other terrains?
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10
10

Tavern Dweller
posted October 25, 2019 05:54 AM

Otuken said:
Why is Lava so poor compared to other terrains?


Look at it through a prism of a base game. How many scenarios you play (i.e. start) on lava during RoE campaign?

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monere
monere


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted October 25, 2019 11:06 AM

Quote:
And Demoniac gets Logistics easily, too Heretic. They go other landscapes, where are beautiful bonuses
that's actually a good point. Coupled with mine I think it's the logic behind why lava terrain is poor

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted October 25, 2019 01:45 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 14:19, 25 Oct 2019.

monere said:
Had Marius started gathering demons at the same pace as galthran is gathering skeletons it would be game over right there.

Marius can't ever raise demons at the same pace as a Necro can gather skeletons. One needs to lose his own creatures to raise demons, so even if you have Diplomacy and Health artifacts, it would still be impossible to get more HP of demons then of skeletons, specially in SoD.
Then there are three quite common artifacts that increase Necromancy while the only thing that increases demon farming is Grail in Inferno and that's rare and sucks. Even if I was playing Inferno I would still prefer to build it in Tower, Conflux or Castle, by this order.
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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 26, 2019 06:03 PM

Ironically Lava is the richest land in One For All since it has the gold mine...
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Zaio-Baio
Zaio-Baio


Promising
Famous Hero
posted October 27, 2019 02:39 AM

Otuken said:
I've encountered people who say "Inferno is sucks because lava is poor terrain" or "Lava is poor because of counterbalance". For a logical perspective all terrains should be equally rich in terms of resources.

Problem is, that all heroes want to have the same skills in the same order. If all the terrains become equal too it will make the game boring.  

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Orc
Orc


Famous Hero
posted November 26, 2019 01:27 PM
Edited by Orc at 13:32, 26 Nov 2019.

Salamandre said:
The argument that real life lava is inhabitable is moot when applied to Heroes, as authors decided full built Cities can develop in lava.

If games were mirror to reality, nobody would play. Lava clearly lacks balancing structures, game-play speaking. I mean, they could have come with some CBs inside volcanoes, or along lava rivers, probably they were just lazy about while making grass omnipotent.

Devils, Mgogs and hell hounds will.

bloodsucker said:
I thought you were talking about decorative objects like trees and mountains, something lava is also quite poor at but in fact lava doesn't have nothing, no crypts, no leprechauns, no stables, there isn't a single object that is related only to lava. And a devils bank would look nice.


thnx for clarifying the OP.

Edit: anyway, isnt there an imp thingy that gives gold? isnt it meant for lava?

You cant compare it to grass becuz it has 2 castles related to it (humans and trees )

Edit: I think I need to recheck all HOMM objects to enlight myself on this topic.

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Otuken
Otuken


Famous Hero
posted November 26, 2019 05:42 PM

Castle and Rampart have already the highest win rates in tournaments and yet grass is richer than Lava? It absolutely does not make sense.

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Orc
Orc


Famous Hero
posted November 26, 2019 06:24 PM

Otuken said:
Castle and Rampart have already the highest win rates in tournaments and yet grass is richer than Lava? It absolutely does not make sense.


it will have to be becuz of concept.

dwarfs treasure and griffin both belong to grass. anything that has to do with any of these towns will be in grass.

the snow or lava on the other hand

the imp cage only belongs to lava, while naga belong to snow only.

though you have a fair point; having a little more in grass doest mean having nothing in lava.



though with a quick check in map editor, most objects belong to all lands.

water wheel and gem ponds belong snow and grass.

there are not that many useful objects. there is one strong object though: tree of wisdom.


and most desert objects are 1 visit.

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