| How would you have designed the Heroes 3 Gold Dragon? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted July 05, 2020 11:40 PM |
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I think the way they are is perfect. No need to change anything.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted August 16, 2024 09:51 PM |
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So apparently in the newest version of HotA, Sacrifice is a full level 5 spell. That means it is actually possible to resurrect Gold Dragons through sacrifice, in HotA.
However Rampart can't learn Sacrifice in their Mage Guild and Fire Magic is usually not what you would go for at Rampart + Rangers can't learn Fire Magic naturally.
So my question is does the HotA change actually make Gold Dragons better or should you just hope to get Orb of Vulnerability ASAP, so you can actually resurrect them?? (And also ruin resistance of Dwarves, Dragons, Resistance skill and specialty + artifacts at the same time.  )
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted August 16, 2024 11:23 PM |
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Well, unironicially Gold Dragons are one of the better targets for Sacrifice spell when you think about it.
1) Rampart as faction has relatively good health pool on it's creatures. Especially Dwarfs and Dendroids have great HP, and usually they're not targeted first anyway, so they're likely to stick around, even if battle takes a while.
2) Gold Dragons are still more or less immune to all spells. Sure, Implosion can be targeted and it's a big minus, but that's one spell, and they're still creatures that cannot be interacted with the usual way. So if you pull the trigger at the end of the battle, it's a huge swing for your faction.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted August 17, 2024 02:15 AM |
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Not wanting to be just a contrarian but I generally don't give Immunity 5 to my Supreme Archangels, because I will have to fight them on the map and, from my experience, if you make a creature so powerful enemies can't deal with it, you better make sure there isn't a mega fight against them first. The hardest fight I did recently was against a stack of Nightmares in TEW III.
I had given them Deflect, Block, Extra Retaliations and Immunity 5 using the Marcus Aurelius Statue and now couldn't deal with all that. I end-up cheating their abilities out for the fight and immediately back again after the fight.
P.S. If this answer doesn't look that significative is cause I've answered to support making of threads, like Ghost asked (I think). They may be bonkers but at least we see some action on this dying community.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted August 17, 2024 03:20 AM |
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>The million of nightmares below the conflux is to be done with force field.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted August 17, 2024 07:58 AM |
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@Hourglass Assuming you somehow learned Sacrifice, as Rampart, which stack would you then choose to sacrifice "at the end of combat", dwarves, dendroids, centaurs?
Since you don't have unlimited stacks Sacrifice actually costs something, unlike Resurrection, so you probably want to use Sacrifice as rarely as possible, unless you bring only a small stack only for this purpose.
I still don't feel Sacrifice is the solution for Gold Dragons. Not to mention it fits horribly thematically. Sacrifice is something for an evil faction like Inferno and perhaps Dungeon.
Perhaps it would have made more sense if First Aid Tent was able to resurrect instead, but with a limited number of uses, not to make it abuseable. Rampart even has a First Aid Tent in their blacksmith and a First Aid specialist, in Gem, so it would have fitted perfectly.
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heymlich
Famous Hero
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posted August 17, 2024 08:49 AM |
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Edited by heymlich at 08:50, 17 Aug 2024.
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gatecrasher said:
I think the way they are is perfect. No need to change anything.
Yes But I would have changed the name to "Chicken". 
That aside, since they are - unlike black dragons - not intended for the drakmageddon, it would be much more interesting, if they were immune to lvl 2-5 spells. That option was somehow forgotten in the poll.
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted August 17, 2024 09:21 AM |
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Phoenix4ever said:
@Hourglass Assuming you somehow learned Sacrifice, as Rampart, which stack would you then choose to sacrifice "at the end of combat", dwarves, dendroids, centaurs?
Since you don't have unlimited stacks Sacrifice actually costs something, unlike Resurrection, so you probably want to use Sacrifice as rarely as possible, unless you bring only a small stack only for this purpose.
If you indeed want to revive the dying Gold Dragons, then Sacrifice is the wrong answer to look for. It shouldn't be looked similarly as the Resurrection, but rather as a combat trick for a major battle. Sacrifice is it strongest, if the player plans around it pre-battle. Dwarfs are actually a great target for the spell, since they don't usually posses a real threat for the enemy, and are left quite untouched during the beginning of the battle.
Phoenix4ever said:
I still don't feel Sacrifice is the solution for Gold Dragons. Not to mention it fits horribly thematically. Sacrifice is something for an evil faction like Inferno and perhaps Dungeon.
Intresting as you mention the thematics - Sacrice is probably something that could have been added to my "Stange design choices in Homm 3" threat I did few years ago.
Sacrifice is only included for the evil faction mage guilds. However, Necropolis cannot benefit from it at all, they cannot be sacrficed or be brought back with it. Dungeon on the other hand has Black Dragons as their ace, again being comletely fully immune for Sacrifice effects. Then we're left with Inferno. Sacrifice kinda works for the Devils, but the interaction is not as optimal when you think about it; due having the lowest amount of HP among tier 7's, they´are relatively easy to be brought back. However, then the usage of Sacrifice is probably not as powerful in the first place, as normal resurrection can also revive a bunch of your creatures, and lot of the potential of Sacrifice feels kinda wasted. Oh, and the Efreet are also fully immune to Sacrifice.
So, whereas the Sacrifice is thematically connected to evil factions via mage guild, there's a lot of gameplay hoops that don't really allign with the spell. In terms of gameplay, Castle and now Rampart in Hota can benefit from Sacifice far more than the factions that it's "intend" for.
And in terms of fantasy and other RPG instances, sacrifice isn't something that's necessary connected for evil/villains. Usually it's about "doing what's right, righteousness, and for the greater good" aka parent taking it's place for a child, defender dying for his home city, etc. What I'm trying to say, is that perhaps the spell shouldn't have been tied for the evil factions in the first place.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted August 17, 2024 09:21 AM |
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@Salamandre I know, I saw "the movie" first... But then, I like to "muscle" fights.
No, I lye, I tried with Force Field and just Hoplites and Praetorians but with the Deflect and Block I didn't had enough shoots. That's what I had to remove.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted August 17, 2024 12:48 PM |
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@Hourglass Perhaps, but Sacrifice still seems pretty evil to me. You permanently kill an entire stack, for the benefit of another stack.
Since Sacrifice is also Fire Magic, I say Sacrifice is an evil aligned spell.
Yeah seems like devils are the only decent target for Sacrifice of the evil faction creatures.
Yeah Necro get a lot of weird spells, they also get Mirth, Resurrection, Frenzy and Armageddon, neither of which will benefit Necro at all!
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heymlich
Famous Hero
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posted August 17, 2024 05:29 PM |
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Edited by heymlich at 17:36, 17 Aug 2024.
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phoenix4ever said:
Perhaps, but Sacrifice still seems pretty evil to me. You permanently kill an entire stack, for the benefit of another stack.
But it's an evil stack you kill. Isn't that good 
@Sacrifice: It is a useless spell and impossible to fix. To make it useful, it should work like Martyr in H4, and be available to Rampart. In that case, you could cast it to protect your yellow dragons with something else that can be resurrected, if necessary.
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purerogue3
Famous Hero
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posted August 17, 2024 05:50 PM |
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Rampart should get Castle's monks renamed as Druids and the Gold/Greens go rogue (neutral).
If Dungeons red and blacks are lvl3/4 immunity, the neutral greens and golds can try 40-50% resistance and lvl5 immunity, or replace with 95% damage resistance if you want dungeon to be lvl4-5 instead.
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Floribert
Hired Hero
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posted January 27, 2025 09:33 AM |
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I agree with the critics on the Gold Dragon. There is a good argument to not upgrade the Green ones when you play rich and big custom maps with Rampart, just to be able to ressurect. But the same can be true with Red Dragons, even though Black Dragons are immune to Implosion.
I don't mind to transform them all to Bone Dragons if you have lots of towns.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 27, 2025 05:37 PM |
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Yeah, it sucks you can't resurrect Gold and Black Dragons. It almost forces you to get Orb of Vulnerability and ruin all resistances, cause you definitely don't want the enemy to use it against your dragons.
The damn orb does'nt even work the same way for both players. It makes no sense. 
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purerogue3
Famous Hero
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posted January 27, 2025 06:21 PM |
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In your original post you said you wanted gold dragons to be able to be blasted by Implosion??
you're a boon for online forums man
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 27, 2025 06:42 PM |
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I never said I wanted that, maybe you should read the first post again...
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purerogue3
Famous Hero
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posted January 27, 2025 06:51 PM |
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oops i assumed you changed your mind again
sorry
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted January 27, 2025 08:20 PM |
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Show your cheated map to us.. Earth, black Orb, etc For your key victory! A very strongly recommend map.. x10 plus buffed HotA as a mastered brain..
..Story: Sir Cheat in H8.. He will die in the final showdown by my wishlist..
My Abandoned Colony (WoG/ERA) giant-sized map is coming.. A map hasn't AI bonuses.. I'm all mighty Ghost.. Thus Lych XVII (HotA) can't come, when mapeditor is virus.. Lych XVII is harder than Puzzler.. But Abandoned Colony is a new 3DO world..
I doubt Phoenix4ever map is a pure standard.. So other opponent want to own map.. Thus edit 750% AI bonus plus Difficulty Mod.. It after YouTube showtime in original map.. What a novice.. Wrong! I respect fair play and normal map without cheat..
Implosion is a very old to me.. Armageddon!
Resurrection 
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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purerogue3
Famous Hero
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posted January 27, 2025 08:32 PM |
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Ghost said:
My Abandoned Colony (WoG/ERA) giant-sized map is coming.. A map hasn't AI bonuses.. I'm all mighty Ghost.. Thus Lych XVII (HotA) can't come, when mapeditor is virus.. Lych XVII is harder than Puzzler.. But Abandoned Colony is a new 3DO world..
..
Implosion is a very old to me.. Armageddon!
Resurrection
Is it a starting town you have to abandon? Can you ban buildings etc in wog?
These three spells are hard to balance, I'm having a hard time repurposing them
One solution is Blind is only one turn (does not carry over if already acted)
Armageddon still user-unfriendly
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted January 27, 2025 08:58 PM |
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purerogue3 said:
Ghost said:
My Abandoned Colony (WoG/ERA) giant-sized map is coming.. A map hasn't AI bonuses.. I'm all mighty Ghost.. Thus Lych XVII (HotA) can't come, when mapeditor is virus.. Lych XVII is harder than Puzzler.. But Abandoned Colony is a new 3DO world..
..
Implosion is a very old to me.. Armageddon!
Resurrection
Is it a starting town you have to abandon? Can you ban buildings etc in wog?
These three spells are hard to balance, I'm having a hard time repurposing them
One solution is Blind is only one turn (does not carry over if already acted)
Armageddon still user-unfriendly
Aha you wanted to speak my map..
Ok if you choose a Rampart, so you start at fort in claustrophobia, you need 20 wood and ore to build city.. But you've random 1-5 lvl spells and 3 Sharpshooters dwellings.. You need key but Faerie Dragons are guarded keymaster.. or AI computer arrives to your fort with 5-10 times larger than your troops, if AI computer sees that fair play, it depends on AI.. If first you succeed, thus experience point is a low, and you see many objects on the map.. Thus Abandoned Colony.. Yes you need to another city..
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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