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| Thread: Best spell specialty? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted August 09, 2020 12:42 AM |
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DD doesn't really have anything to do with water. If anything, it has more to do with Fire a bit, since Devils teleport back to one of their realms and then back into this plane. Also, I guess DD is in Air since it controls "space", in the sense that you freely move within it, while TP gets you to a "space" on land, which is the town. Also, Water already has a control spell, Water Walk, but nobody mentions it.
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"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."
The Reckoning.... it's drawing near....
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted August 09, 2020 07:36 AM |
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DD should really be in Fire and always only once per day, makes for a much more balanced game. To put both Fly and DD in Air was a terrible decision.
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zmudziak22
Supreme Hero
Heroes 3 Fan
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posted August 09, 2020 11:50 AM |
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I agree, Armageddon, Berserk and Dimensior Door should be level 5 Fire Spells. Earth Magic is most broken elemental school in Heroes 3.
Slow which is usually 1st spell to cast
Animate Dead/Ressurection which reduce battle loses
Meteor Shower/Implosion are among of best damage spells
Earth Elemental which become strong tank with high spell power.
Water Magic is 2nd best battle elemental school, because of nice things like Mass Bless, Mass Prayer(buffs), Clone which let you copy unit(with 1 hp), forgetfullness against shooters, cure and dispel to remove curses from units.
I would say Air, Water and Fire would benefit more if we could implement creature abilities as spells.
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FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted August 09, 2020 11:53 AM |
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Even so, unlike all other spells, conceptually, DD would have nothing to do in Fire Magic, so maybe creating a new Fire Magic spell would be better.
Also, HotA won't change spells schools.
Also, nobody would currently play anything besides and/or ERA with ACM and TUM.
There are also vanilla H3 players with no mods.
And everyone else is the minority, tbh.
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"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."
The Reckoning.... it's drawing near....
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zmudziak22
Supreme Hero
Heroes 3 Fan
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posted August 09, 2020 12:00 PM |
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How so?
Air would have Fly
Town Portal would all school spell
Water would have water walk
Fire would have Dimension Door
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted August 09, 2020 12:06 PM |
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And you would need all magic schools to get use of all traveling spells. It looks great, if you have up to ten skills, Wizards Towers and Market of Time, to fit them all. If not... Yeah! Well, maybe you can go without Offense or Logistics.
NO, thanks.
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FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted August 09, 2020 12:20 PM |
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zmudziak22 said:
How so?
Air would have Fly
Town Portal would all school spell
Water would have water walk
Fire would have Dimension Door
I explained in my first post on this page. The only fire-related "space" action like teleportation would be Devil's movement.
And by conceptually I didn't mean strategically or balance-wise. Also, all H3 spells conceptually fit into their magic schools as well.
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"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."
The Reckoning.... it's drawing near....
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RerryR
Promising
Supreme Hero
Researching Magic
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posted August 09, 2020 12:51 PM |
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bloodsucker said:
And you would need all magic schools to get use of all traveling spells.....
NO, thanks.
It is no prerequisite to have all magic schools to use traveling spells.
They are just less effektiv.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted August 09, 2020 01:00 PM |
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Yeah! I should have said good use...
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zmudziak22
Supreme Hero
Heroes 3 Fan
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posted August 09, 2020 02:07 PM |
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Well, Town Portal wont be only Earth Magic School dependant so even you have air/water/fire you could still travel between towns.
Fire is logic to have Dimensior Door. I rarely see people who picks up Water and Fire Magic, so these 2 would benefit when Air has less flying spells.
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FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted August 09, 2020 02:26 PM |
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zmudziak22 said:
Well, Town Portal wont be only Earth Magic School dependant so even you have air/water/fire you could still travel between towns.
Fire is logic to have Dimensior Door. I rarely see people who picks up Water and Fire Magic, so these 2 would benefit when Air has less flying spells.
It is illogical from a concept-wise point of view. Yes, maybe it is ok from a balance or strategical-wise point of view, but not concept-wise. DD is in Air because Air magic controls "space" (Air is defined as "space") and has nothing to do with Fire, which controls either the fire element or "hacks" (controls) the mind (Berserk, Bloodlust, Frenzy and/or Blind, depending on how Blind actually works). Dang, I even wonder, did you understand what I wrote or what "concept" means?
And again: all spells in H3 are put in certain schools not by taking into account balance, but the concept of the spell and what element it fits.
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"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."
The Reckoning.... it's drawing near....
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zmudziak22
Supreme Hero
Heroes 3 Fan
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posted August 09, 2020 03:14 PM |
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Consider DD as portal/monolith, even Phoenix4ever said that Dimensior Door suit more as Fire spell then Air Spell(concept and logical wise). Fly is 2nd spell to travel around, so Air wont lose much, but Fire would get buff.
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FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted August 09, 2020 03:28 PM |
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Dude, you totally missed the point, for real. You really didn't understand it. Yes, maybe DD is balance-wise more fit to be in Fire magic, but it has nothing to do with Fire magic, since Fire magic does NOT CONTROL "SPACE", like Air magic does. So no, DD has nothing to do in Fire Magic. And again, all H3 spells are in their respective schools because of the elements, not because of balance and such. If it was based on balance, any spell could have been anywhere. Water Walk in Fire magic, etc.
And again, you missed my point, I guess, or just want to ignore it. And portal/monolith doesn't control "space" (Air) as well (that comparison of yours was totally absurd, ngl)? Also, Phoenix wasn't even part of this part of the argument, he's all about the balance and such, without regards to NWC's ideology which I already explained several times (no offense to you, Phoenix4ever).
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"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."
The Reckoning.... it's drawing near....
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Hourglass
Famous Hero
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posted August 09, 2020 04:24 PM |
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FirePaladin said:
I explained in my first post on this page. The only fire-related "space" action like teleportation would be Devil's movement.
And by conceptually I didn't mean strategically or balance-wise. Also, all H3 spells conceptually fit into their magic schools as well.
I can understand what you're after, but honestly DD would have made much more sense in the fire magic school. You mentioned Devil's teleportation yourself, but there's also the fiery Castle gate, and Energy elementals are also semi-teleporting while moving. Ofc, one can always find reasons why it could be seen as an air spell, but at the end up the day, there are more reasons why another school of magic should have been chosen, even lorewise.
FirePaladin said:
Also, all H3 spells conceptually fit into their magic schools as well.
Debatable. Why is Counterstrike an air spell, and Remove obstacle water spell? Ofc, nobody questions them, because the spell icon color has been chosen accordingly. Same goes for Dimension door:
If some1 would have drawn a non-white character and painted the DD's portal red in 1999, nobody wouldn't question these things today.
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FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted August 09, 2020 04:56 PM |
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Energy Elementals transform themselves into an energy cluster and "float" (they don't teleport). Castle Gate is the same thing as Devil's teleportation, most possibly, but with a better efficiency and only set locations between towns.
Counterstrike could have been a Fire spell as well, yes, but the thing is that if it simply controlled the mind like Fire magic you would get muscle fatigue, while with Air magic you wouldn't, since it controls "space" and air itself.
Remove obstacle could have been Earth, but I guess they just didn't give a crap about it at that point (since it was a pretty pointless spell; now, add obstacle, however....) and moved it to the supposedly weakest magic school, water.
The thing is, most spells, including the important ones, are like this.
Also, what are those more reasons for why it should have been another magic school, lorewise? The only connection with Fire it has is that the Kreegans, aliens that had technology and knew teleportation, used it for travelling between planes.
Edit: I just realized how far we've got from the thread's scope since there wasn't much more to say about spell specialties anymore.
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"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."
The Reckoning.... it's drawing near....
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted August 09, 2020 05:26 PM |
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What does this battle have to do with a spell specialty?
I mean, without a platform the discussion is baseless and in WoG each of you can do it the way he wants. It was done more then once.
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FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted August 09, 2020 05:29 PM |
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Ye, it all started with a suggestion about how DD should be moved to Water.
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"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."
The Reckoning.... it's drawing near....
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted August 09, 2020 06:59 PM |
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No offense taken FirePaladin.
And I have no problem with the discussion drifting a bit off topic, always nice with a good discussion.
If DD was under Fire and only once per day it would mean that suddenly Tomb of Air is not extremely important anymore and you also get something for the adventure map with Tome of Fire.
Spellbinder's Hat would still have both Fly and DD, but it's only 9 spells, compared to 18 or 19 like the Tomes.
And with DD only once per day, you don't really need Fire Magic for DD, but you will save a few mana and movement points.
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Hourglass
Famous Hero
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posted August 09, 2020 08:07 PM |
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bloodsucker said:
What does this battle have to do with a spell specialty?
I agree.
I was going to make a thread about wrong spell levels anyway at some point and I feel the talk about spells being in wrong school of magic should go under that topic as well. So I made a new thread. It would to nice to hear your thoughts in there.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted October 29, 2021 01:17 AM |
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Ok the report was made by Tocath.
NWC/JVC/3DO was accurate. We look together.
1lvl spell classes:
AIR - 1
EARTH - 4
FIRE - 3
WATER - 4
ALL SCHOOLS - 1 (Magic Arrow)
2lvl spell classes:
AIR - 5
EARTH - 2
FIRE - 2
WATER - 5
ALL SCHOOLS - 1 (Visions)
3lvl spell classes:
AIR - 2
EARTH - 5
FIRE - 3
WATER - 4
ALL SCHOOLS - 0
4lvl spell classes:
AIR - 2
EARTH - 4
FIRE - 6
WARER - 3
ALL SCHOOLS - 0
5lvl spell classes:
AIR - 4+1
EARTH - 2
FIRE - 2
WATER - 1
ALL SCHOOLS - 0
Tot.
AIR 14+1+1
EARTH 17+1
FIRE 16+1
WATER 17+1
If you take DD, and AIR stay 13+1+1, which is small. If you are using Air skill, you fight a combat, your only Haste and Chain Lightning or Counterstrike, if you got them, etc thus freedom adventurer belonged to Tower, and their life and culture. An example Tunnels and Troglodytes taught us
How evil was the hero wanted to get a Spellbinder's Hat and still to use the Red Orb by original RoE CD-ROM without updating PATCH. Hands down! Yes weak Tower, thus artifacts or spells make great, another thing can be discussed later.
Ok we will now continue about spell. So you realized Haste is great, thus the first strike by Obsidian Gargoyles, then Master Genies or Titans, etc Why is that only 1lvl spell class got a specialty.
Sad must to stop as the battery is low.
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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