Zenofex said:

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Actually you should assume that the elections are rigged by default in each and every case because that's what they usually are unless one side has an overwhelming support that is visible not only in polls (they are all manipulative) and in official propaganda throughout the media, but in everyday life. Even in the latter case there are usually frauds. Casting a vote "freely" is just that - casting it. Counting that vote is what matters but, as the legendary saying (most likely wrongly) attributed to comrade Joseph Vissarionovich puts it, it's about who counts it. I'd also add "and how it is counted". The US is obviously split 50:50 at the moment and frauds and dirty tricks are not just possible, they are mandatory, especially given that how each side sees this as a life-or-death choice.

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Blizzardboy said:

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The other threat is if millions of gullible people believe in their imaginations that fraud on a mass scale is a supposedly easy crime to commit and should be assumed, which of course is entirely unsupported.

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RerryR said:

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That was not the point I was trying to make. I wanted to say that Trump had already questioned the legitimacy of the election in advance by claiming that the Democrats were rigging the election. And this, of course, without proof.
Now the election is over and it seems (so far) that everything went relatively fair and peaceful. To the conclusion comes by the way also the OSCE (https://www.osce.org/odihr/elections/469440). That is, everyone could at least, vote more or less freely. That is for me a free and fair election, differently than what is claimed here in the forum.

I am not talking about the American electoral system and how the parties nominate their candidates. That is what you mean and I don't disagree with you there either.

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Gandalf196 said:

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Blizzardboy said:

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The other threat is if millions of gullible people believe in their imaginations that fraud on a mass scale is a supposedly easy crime to commit and should be assumed, which of course is entirely unsupported.

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I'd rather say that a real threat to democracy is if millions of gullible people believe in their imaginations that fraud on a mass scale is a supposedly difficult crime to commit and should not be assumed, which of course is entirely unsupported.

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Gandalf196 said:

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I'd like to say, though, that I understand two hundred year and also dead people voting for Biden, I get that feeling represented is important.

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Blizzardboy said:

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Oh dear.

You go on and on and on. Just a wall of text with epic claims and no substance behind your claims. Where is your evidence Zenofex? How did they intercept the ballots? How did they forge enough signatures to tip an election? How are they using hundreds of thousands or millions of people's personal identification information without being caught?

https://www.cnet.com/news/mail-in-voting-fraud-is-nearly-impossible-to-commit/

The main question among serious people is if certain submitted ballots are valid or late, i.e. that they were submitted within the legal timeframe for casting a vote, but that is something that will be investigated based on state laws. The other threat is if millions of gullible people believe in their imaginations that fraud on a mass scale is a supposedly easy crime to commit and should be assumed, which of course is entirely unsupported.

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Minion said:

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Oh the irony of posting "educate yourself" to someone, while linking to á page where one of the first things you see is "In April 2020 a 20-year review of voter fraud in the United States, since it occurs only in "0.00006 percent" of instances nationally, and, in one state, "0.000004 percent — about five times less likely than getting hit by lightning in the United States

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Blizzardboy said:

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Wow Zenofex. You linked me a wiki article about voter fraud.

Anyway, so far, nobody here claiming fraud in this election has any proof to take to any court of law, so I'll just assume they are baseless bursts of passion from election anxiety. I want to know how these IDs are magically being hijacked. I want to know how my voting district and voting number would be changed despite being personally linked to me. Anybody?

Of course I'm completely open to hearing something substantiated about voter fraud because a fair election is extremely important to our country and I don't want anybody in office who shouldn't be there. Trump has every right to legally dispute things if that is what his campaign chooses to do.

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