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Heroes Community > Volcanic Wastelands > Thread: I just had a topic erased
Thread: I just had a topic erased This thread is 7 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV
Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted November 13, 2020 09:54 PM

The context IS inside the linked articles if you bother reading the sources.

And please, cut it off with the condescending tone, this has never been proven to be constructive under any circumstances.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted November 13, 2020 10:31 PM

It's not condescending, it's desperate.

A linked article isn't context. A linked article is just a source. A source for a summarized information without any context.

I mean, what do you think a Roosevelt/Churchill Fact Check in that way would look like? "In 4 bombing raids within 3 days 25.000 civilians were killed in Dresden, Germany."

Or look at a Fact check of abortion. "In one day, so many kilos of living cells were destroyed." Propaganda. Rhetorics. No context.

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Rimgrabber
Rimgrabber


Promising
Famous Hero
Voice in Gelu's Head
posted November 14, 2020 03:59 AM

The bottom line is every postwar president except maybe Jimmy Carter is a war criminal. That's not because the United States is uniquely evil, it's just a natural consequence of being an imperialist superpower. Bush Jr. started an illegal offensive war in Iraq, Obama promised to get out of it and instead massively expanded our intervention in the Middle East via drone strikes that killed 90% civilians. Why he got us involved in Libya and Yemen is irrelevant. He did not have authorization from Congress to intervene in Libya and NATO's actions completely destroyed the country, and what Saudi Arabia is doing in Yemen is a genocide, and supporting it with weapons and intel is complicity in a war crime regardless of them being our "ally."

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Blizzardboy
Blizzardboy


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
posted November 14, 2020 04:39 AM
Edited by Blizzardboy at 04:51, 14 Nov 2020.

Rimgrabber said:
Why he got us involved in Libya and Yemen is irrelevant. He did not have authorization from Congress to intervene in Libya


If a person follows a strict Constitutional interpretation (which has not happened for a very long time in the modern world), that is true, but then if we follow that route, we can't conveniently stop at the president. We have to take it to its full conclusion: it also means that both houses of Congress unilaterally failed in their obligation to impeach and then remove the president for going well beyond his powers, and moreover, that the judiciary is corrupt for not stopping it either. It basically means the entire system is irreconcilable.
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Gnomes2169
Gnomes2169


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
posted November 14, 2020 05:47 AM

Blizzardboy said:
If a person follows a strict Constitutional interpretation (which has not happened for a very long time in the modern world), that is true, but then if we follow that route, we can't conveniently stop at the president. We have to take it to its full conclusion: it also means that both houses of Congress unilaterally failed in their obligation to impeach and then remove the president for going well beyond his powers, and moreover, that the judiciary is corrupt for not stopping it either. It basically means the entire system is irreconcilable.

Why yes, indeed, the USA is continuously teetering at the edge of a dictatorship that is only waiting for someone ambitious, smart and charismatic enough to put their butt in the President's seat and take over. Nice to know that someone else noticed it.
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Rimgrabber
Rimgrabber


Promising
Famous Hero
Voice in Gelu's Head
posted November 14, 2020 08:12 AM

Blizzardboy said:

If a person follows a strict Constitutional interpretation (which has not happened for a very long time in the modern world), that is true, but then if we follow that route, we can't conveniently stop at the president. We have to take it to its full conclusion: it also means that both houses of Congress unilaterally failed in their obligation to impeach and then remove the president for going well beyond his powers, and moreover, that the judiciary is corrupt for not stopping it either. It basically means the entire system is irreconcilable.



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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted November 14, 2020 09:28 AM

artu said:

The Russian interference wasnt about direct voter fraud. It was rather spreading fake news from fake social media accounts and so on, it was an attack of disinformation.


As I said, you cherry pick whatever suits you, now that the investigation is over and there is a ton of information. 4 years ago, on November 22 - so even later than now, the first accusation of electoral fraud came from a committee of CIA computer experts, claiming that electronic machines were pirated by Russian hackers. They called Hillary's campaign team and asked for contesting election results until they find out what's going on.

Is only much later that, empty-handed, they switched to the "disinformation" bogus, based on a few adds they found on "dubious" accounts from Facebook.  Note that what did the quasi totality of those accounts was to publish stolen files and emails, also available on Wikileaks.

If I hack your email and publish compromising details on you, is it "fake news"? No, but probably you will take that shortcut to focus the attention elsewhere, and that is what they did.

That Russian had their preferences and worked out for, no doubt. Why they wouldn't, USA does ten thousands times worse when it wants "fixed" some international issue, such interference go both sides. And don't get me started on the totality of the European press, who, day after day, depicted Trump and his electorate as idiots, racists, fascists, xenophobes and you name it. How would you call that if not preventive MASS interference in elections?  

Then, and there is the biggest "fake news" which, on the one hand, allowed Trump cementing a solid electoral base, then, on the other hand, definitively divided America by fueling constant hate among his opponents -  the Mainstream kept charging during 3 long years the collusion narrative on POTUS. Which big failed, yet even today, due to them keeping confuse statements about, you will find tons of useful idiots claiming it happened.  
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted November 14, 2020 09:55 AM

I’m not cherry-picking anything, I’m just saying the two accusations are not comparable. And if CIA experts suspect hackers, it is not comparable to some baseless social media spam about Wisconsin either.

The Clinton mails ended up clean, there has been nothing found comprimising about them in the end and they were investigated just like the other claims. The fake news is another part of the story, it isnt about the mails. It is pizzagate and stuff like that.




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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
posted November 14, 2020 11:29 AM

Hey Gootch, I thought we were going to hijack the thread. I am disappointed now.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted November 14, 2020 12:21 PM

Of course, the elephant-in-the-room question is this: if Russia WANTS to have one president over another so badly that they try to influence the elections, can it be good for the US when the Russian favorite actually wins? What is good for Russia must be good for the US as well?
Asked another way - what exactly made Russia want to have Trump so much more than Clinton?

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted November 14, 2020 12:39 PM

You'll find out soon enough if Biden's crew takes over. Proxy wars around the post-Soviet space and "evil Russia" narrative has been half-frozen for the past 4 years (with the focus being on China and Iran) and will re-ignite as soon as the Dems get a steady foothold in the government. Maidans and all that. Very cool stuff, if you don't live in the respective area.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted November 14, 2020 12:49 PM

Ukraine was settled before Trump came into office.

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted November 14, 2020 01:04 PM

Ukraine is not settled. Bosnia is not settled. Kosovo is not settled. Belarus is not settled. Georgia is not settled. Nagorno-Karabach is not settled. All of this and more is in some form of uneasy slumber at best and can be, is being and will be used to advance the geopolitical agenda of whoever's representative stays in the White House (and London, from a broader perspective).

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted November 14, 2020 01:32 PM

I think that is highly unlikely; there are enough problems at hand, so that waking sleeping dogs, however uneasily, won't be on the forefront of any agenda.

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Ghost
Ghost


Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
posted November 14, 2020 01:43 PM

JollyJoker said:
what exactly made Russia want to have Trump so much more than Clinton?


I don't think so. It's American style, example of the Iraq war never found chemical weapons. But it gave supporters what they wanted or believed. IMO!

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Blizzardboy
Blizzardboy


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
posted November 14, 2020 08:35 PM
Edited by Blizzardboy at 20:52, 14 Nov 2020.

Gnomes2169 said:

Why yes, indeed, the USA is continuously teetering at the edge of a dictatorship that is only waiting for someone ambitious, smart and charismatic enough to put their butt in the President's seat and take over. Nice to know that someone else noticed it.


Trump's chances are almost zero because he doesnt seem to have the loyalty of his own party, but in our Neo Dark Age, another elected guy more popular and younger than him in the future could do it. Congress passes laws and the courts make rulings, but a popular enough executive could always theoretically tell them all to go snow themselves and if his cabinet and especially the Defense Department follows him, then the Republic is fish food.

Compare the explosion of conflicting information on the internet with China's thick web of censorship or very subtle algorithmic tampering and they can control or funnel what thoughts and ideas come to their people before they ever read them (you can get around it but casual people won't bother with that). It is a huge strategic advantage to keep dissident mobs or populism from ever taking root.
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CountBezuhoff
CountBezuhoff


Supreme Hero
Nihil sub sole novum
posted February 11, 2021 11:14 PM

More election fallout, let's just forget about this one quickly.

The Count
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