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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Modders Workshop > Thread: Weakest Race/Faction POLL!!
Thread: Weakest Race/Faction POLL!!
veteran_player
veteran_player


Adventuring Hero
posted November 13, 2020 06:09 PM

Poll Question:
Weakest Race/Faction POLL!!

This poll is for HoMM5.5 RC13; RC14; or later! It is not historical!

This is interesting and important to me, since I only play on "Impossible" -- for the difficulty and challenge!!

Thank you for participating...

Responses:
Haven
Inferno
Necropolis
Sylvan
Dungeon
Academy
Fortress
Stronghold
 View Results!

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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted November 15, 2020 11:44 AM

I don't believe the outcome of this poll will be particularly useful for you, since the "strength/weakness" of a faction is perceived very subjectively.

The fact is, each faction (including the creature stats and abilities, hero classes and their stats and skills, and town build requirements) has their strengths and weaknesses that add up to an extremely balanced picture overall in MMH5.5.

Some factions are stronger early game, so they will appear dominant on a small/fast-paced map. Some others are stronger late game, and they will dominate on very large/slow-paced maps. Some others are less prominent at any stage, so they will be more competitive on mid-size maps.

Each faction requires using its strengths in the best way, and yes, some factions are harder to master. Hence, if someone says a particular faction sucks, it's only because they haven't mastered it yet.

Coming from the Heroes 3 or the vanilla Heroes 5 will be an crucial determinant in these perceptions as well...

My suggestion is, give each one a try and experience for yourself

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Rimgrabber
Rimgrabber


Famous Hero
It's a fixer-upper
posted November 15, 2020 10:55 PM

I voted for Inferno but I pretty much second that. The factions are much more balanced in H5 than in H3, especially in H5.5. Taking Inferno as an example, I chose them because their most important troops all die quickly and the devils are probably more expensive than they're worth compared to other factions. But even so, they're MUCH closer in strength to the other factions than their H3 counterparts, and their gating skill does a lot to compensate for their fragile troops.

If I had to pick a single STRONGEST faction, I'd probably say Academy because all of their classes have a high knowledge skill, meaning that they're all potent spellcasters, and on large maps, they're all able to make excellent use of the Artificer skill, which boosts their already powerful (and magical supported) troops considerably. Plus, they have 3 ranged creatures and the artifact merchant. Fortress is also a contender but I don't use them much because their lineup is boring.

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Saulor
Saulor

Tavern Dweller
posted November 26, 2020 03:21 AM
Edited by Saulor at 03:22, 26 Nov 2020.

In H5.5...I would say the clear winner for the underdog is necropolis. It alredy was in vanilla TOE in any game that lasted over 5 weeks unless it was a map with many aditional castles, and even then, it had a big chance to loose. Their army is vastly inferior, and summoning and dark magic can be countered very effectively with low effort. In H5.5 it is nerfed further, vampires are worse, warriors are worse, liches are worse, necromancy is half as efficient as the alredy underwhelming TOE one, dark magic is much worse, and all the perks and spells that neutralized dark are still present, not to mention raise dead nerfs... All in all, an alredy weaker race that took much more skill than most to win was made worse. Academy on the other hand is clearly the best.
____________

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azalen
azalen


Responsible
Known Hero
posted November 26, 2020 06:15 PM
Edited by azalen at 18:23, 26 Nov 2020.

Rimgrabber said:
I voted for Inferno but I pretty much second that. The factions are much more balanced in H5 than in H3, especially in H5.5. Taking Inferno as an example, I chose them because their most important troops all die quickly and the devils are probably more expensive than they're worth compared to other factions. But even so, they're MUCH closer in strength to the other factions than their H3 counterparts, and their gating skill does a lot to compensate for their fragile troops.

If I had to pick a single STRONGEST faction, I'd probably say Academy because all of their classes have a high knowledge skill, meaning that they're all potent spellcasters, and on large maps, they're all able to make excellent use of the Artificer skill, which boosts their already powerful (and magical supported) troops considerably. Plus, they have 3 ranged creatures and the artifact merchant. Fortress is also a contender but I don't use them much because their lineup is boring.



I think the main issue with Inferno is not that they are worse, but that they are less desirable to play because gating is a slow game mechanic.

The (now a long time ago) buff to gating where gated stacks appear faster was a major improvement for them and solved most of their balance issues.  However, it is still kinda boring when their main faction special, gating, is primarily used in the early weeks to produce more 1-unit horned devil blockers from 3 unit hornded devil stacks for additional blocking and a disposable big gated imp "attack stack".  It is a slower, more plodding game style in the early weeks, making them less fun to play.  It doesn't mean they are less effective, though.


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azalen
azalen


Responsible
Known Hero
posted November 26, 2020 06:36 PM
Edited by azalen at 18:38, 26 Nov 2020.

Saulor said:
In H5.5...I would say the clear winner for the underdog is necropolis. It alredy was in vanilla TOE in any game that lasted over 5 weeks unless it was a map with many aditional castles, and even then, it had a big chance to loose. Their army is vastly inferior, and summoning and dark magic can be countered very effectively with low effort. In H5.5 it is nerfed further, vampires are worse, warriors are worse, liches are worse, necromancy is half as efficient as the alredy underwhelming TOE one, dark magic is much worse, and all the perks and spells that neutralized dark are still present, not to mention raise dead nerfs... All in all, an alredy weaker race that took much more skill than most to win was made worse. Academy on the other hand is clearly the best.



I think you are missing some stuff in your analysis.  Ghost blockers will probably become more valuable now as the hp buff allowes melee to hang around longer to take more swings at your blockers. Other factions used to be able fake it with 1-unit throw away stacks, but with the hp buff, specialized blockers like ghosts will become more valuable to protect your ranged stacks and not just a "block more" strategy.  

As for Academy, week 1-2 Artificer is effectively a dead skill slot until late game.  There are a few exceptions to this like war machine heroes like Minasli who benefit greatly from Artificial Glory (she doesn't start with Artificer anyway), but these are exceptions and not the rule.  When you are talking about faction power, things like starting skills can make or break you on your early creeping speed.  

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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted November 26, 2020 07:04 PM

^ He's definitely missing a lot in regards to Necropolis.
Necropolis is simply "quantity over quality" and they can easily overwhelm with their numbers. The in-town necro transformer means they don't need to convert any new towns/dwellings and they can directly utilize any joining stacks. All changes to Necropolis town simply curbed their OPness.

In TOE, Necropolis was the most straightforward to play, so Saulor must be kidding. Dungeon was and still is the most risky faction; you're always on the edge of the knife, so it actually is fitting with their theme, lol.

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