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Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Revisting H7 Five Years Later: The Best Heroes?
Thread: Revisting H7 Five Years Later: The Best Heroes? This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
Rimgrabber
Rimgrabber


Famous Hero
It's a fixer-upper
posted December 18, 2020 10:50 PM bonus applied by OmegaDestroyer on 21 Dec 2020.

Revisting H7 Five Years Later: The Best Heroes?

First of all, please excuse the semi-click-bait title. I don't believe H7 is the best heroes game as it stands, that honor in my opinion goes to H5. What I do believe is that it has LOADS of untapped potential and deserves another chance from the community. If you're still with me, hear me out. First, let's go over the reasons why most of us hated it in the first place.

I haven't had much to do lately, so in my infinite boredom, I decided to go back and play some of the single scenarios of MMH7. I played through the campaigns when it first came out and like most everyone else, I was not a fan. The game was buggy, prone to crashes, poorly optimized, just borderline unplayable. It was very clearly still in beta, but Ubisoft advertised it as a AAA game and sold it for like $60 dollars, as they so often do with their games. The latter patches, Trial by Fire, and Antalyan's mod have fixed most of the issues although some remain.

My introduction to the community was the bullsnow "Shadow Council" grift that Ubisoft pulled, where they were allegedly going to hear our concerns and requests, and then in practice ignore them almost entirely while antagonizing us with garbage like this. I think that those of us that did play the game (I got it as a birthday present, and later the expansion the Christmas after it came out) went into it angry and with very low expectations. As I've gotten more involved with the community with writing projects, faction contests, etc, I have some thoughts about the shadow council blog, and the development of H7, that I didn't have before, and some that have evolved since 2015 when the whole debacle went down.

First off, I do not blame Limbic or even really the devs for how the game turned out. In my opinion, the blame for the failures of the game lays squarely at the feet of the executives at Ubisoft who underfunded the game, set unreasonable deadlines, and ordered the devs to make an easily marketable game for casual players with no regard for what the fanbase actually wanted. They're a business, not a group of passionate heroes fans, so obviously they were more concerned with the conventional wisdom of how to make the most money while spending as little as possible rather than they were with actually making a good product.

A few things happened throughout the course of the development, though, that leads me to believe that the team actually making the game were doing their best to accommodate us: After much insistence (and, let's be honest with ourselves, harassment) from the fans, they redesigned the Lich and the Vampire models into ones that are actually incredibly badass, and they gave options to turn on random skilling and turn off color coding when the fans made it clear it's not what they wanted. To me, and probably most of you, it seems obvious that it was Ubisoft demanding the game be as watered down and "warcrafty" as possible because they thought it would reach a broader audience while the devs actually making the game did their best to reconcile that with what we wanted, which brings me to my next and most important point.

The core game mechanics of Heroes 7 are actually, in my opinion, very very good. Unbalanced and unrefined, yes, but so were H3 and H5 when they first came out. It was the expansion packs and the modding that made them into the gems we know and love today. Looking back on it now without the frustration and feelings of being disrespected so fresh in my mind, I think the team actually did a very good job of fulfilling their mission to make a "best of" heroes game given the awful management and lack of funds. I know that's probably an unpopular take but let me explain:

First, the map editor. This is a secondary feature, and one I personally have never really used, but I mention it first for 1 important reason: it was designed with modding in mind, meaning that we the community have the power to fix the balance problems and lack of fine-tuning found in the rest of the gameplay, including adding units and even new factions. I'll get to that more specifically later, though.

Second, the skill system. Obviously, most of us were extremely irritated and insulted by the way the skill system was communicated to us: We would tell the admins of the blog that we wanted the skill system built off of H5 with the semi-random element the other heroes games had, they'd say there was nothing to report, and then suddenly the skill system was decided and it was going to have no randomness. Disappointing and insulting, but a random option was added, and we've already been over this part, so onto why I think it's actually a great one and a natural evolution of H5's.

As I recall, aside from the lack of randomness in mind, the biggest criticism was that the class system forces your hero into a box. I fully disagree with this sentiment not because it's totally untrue, but because it's not MORE true than it has been in previous heroes games. Sure, in H3 the differences between the classes were negligible beside the chances for receiving skills, but all that meant was that some class were unusably bad since every hero every game basically had the same set: offense, armorer, logistics, earth magic, air magic, wisdom, diplomacy, and then one filler skill from a list of archery, intelligence, water magic, resistance, or depending on the map, navigation. I could be forgetting some, but you get the picture. In H5 this problem was mitigated, but each class still had its preferred set and you were essentially required to take logistics and enlightenment. There was more variation than in H3, but it was very faction-dependant.

In contrast, the presence of 6 classes per faction gives you the feeling of uniqueness that H5 had without boxing you into 1 playstyle per faction. While some of the classes are admittedly repetitive in what skills they can level to grandmaster, their other skills are fairly varied and each class feels distinct but the 3 might classes and 3 magic classes of the same faction don't feel radically different from each other. In practice, what this means is that essentially, each faction has 1 might and 1 magic class that can effectively run several different sets that can be almost as different or similar to each other as you want. Basically, it's a slightly worse version of H5.5's skill system, built without randomness in mind. The great thing though, is that thanks to the way the map editor was built modders can easily rebalance it to make it more compatible with the random option. AND the fact that the randomness is optional means it's very easy to test very specific builds out without needing to worry about getting smited(smote? smitten?) by RNGesus. It really is the best of both worlds.

Faction skills especially got a bump up in H7. While they were nice in H5, only some of them gave a unique feel. Fortress, Inferno, Necropolis, and especially Stronghold did a very good job with it, but Haven, Sylvan, and Dungeon, while cool in theory, were basically just power-ups that were useful but didn't really lend any uniqueness to the faction. Academy was somewhere in the middle but stupid OP regardless. In contrast, ALL of them feel unique in H7, even if most of them are also stupid OP and require balancing tweaks.

Next, the units. While I understand why people would prefer the linear 7-tier system of H3 and H5, it only appeared in those games and in no way is essential to the spirit of heroes. In many ways, H4 and H6 had much better tier systems, although they certainly had their problems. In H4 there were many cases where 1 option was simply better than the other and in H6 the power difference between the tiers was barely noticeable once the number was factored in. Heroes 7 took both of the core concepts of those systems that were good and fixed them. Now each faction has 5 tiers: 2 core units, 1 stronger core unit, 2 elite units, 1 stronger elite unit, and a choice between 1 of 2 champion units whose usefulness depends on whether you want to focus more on might or magic, and offense or defense. My biggest complaints are the removal of alternate upgrades, which is one of my favorite things about H5, and the lack of variation in creature abilities. While I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about the former, the latter is again, very fixable thanks to the way the map editor allows you to create new creatures.

Hero specializations are my biggest complaint about the core mechanics. They're all flat bonuses of varying usefulness, some unique, but most of them flat bonuses to stats or unit growth. Most of the unique ones aren't very useful or are very situation to boot. I don't know if the map editor allows for fixing this or not though.

The town-building is mostly the same as ever, with the introduction(As far as I can remember?) of alternate buildings. Some of the choices are a bit annoying and don't make sense, but the idea is a good one, and, like most of the games other problems, is fixable in the map editor.

The magic system isn't amazing, but it's not much better or worse than in H3 or H5 IMO. It has much of the same problems, but the schools are varied enough to make any of them useful, and able to pull off most functions while favoring some playstyles over the others. For example, earth magic is more defensive in general but still has a few good offense spells, vice-versa for fire, water is balanced, air is almost all direct damage and offensive buffs, light is mostly buffs and healing, dark is mostly debuffs and DoT, and prime is mostly the best utility spells like summon elementals and time control. The biggest change is that each faction has 1 school they can never use under any circumstances and 1 school they will always get at least 1 of per mage guild level, except for Academy which has neither, and each town allows you to pick a second favored school from one of the 5 that are neither banned or already favored.

I wish the game had He5's initiative system, but it doesn't. I don't think its possible to mod it in, unfortunately, but it doesn't make or break the game IMO.

The only other thing I can think of that significantly differs from previous games is the inclusion of flanking. It's a cool idea and adds tactical depth to the game certainly, but I'm not sure if I like its implementation or not.

Anyway, I guess the point of this post is that I want people to reconsider H7's place in the series. The map editor really is the key to it all: it gives us a chance to more or less make our own heroes game that's different enough from H3 and H5 to warrant its own projects but not so different that it doesn't feel like heroes anymore. I, for one, would absolutely love to help create new creatures and creature abilities, rebalance the skill system, create new factions and hero classes, and write for new campaigns. Unfortunately, I have about the same computer skills as the average chimpanzee, otherwise, I'd do it on my own. So, in conclusion, I'd encourage everyone to give H7 another try, and if anyone wants to, help me finish it. We can make a worthy entry out of this mess yet.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
Undorcover modder
posted December 19, 2020 12:04 AM

It's visually ugly and unfinished. This is enough.
____________
"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."

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Rimgrabber
Rimgrabber


Famous Hero
It's a fixer-upper
posted December 19, 2020 12:33 AM
Edited by Rimgrabber at 01:34, 20 Dec 2020.

I actually really like most of the visuals. Some of them I really don't, but most of them I do. It needs refinement for sure but it's not the lost cause people make it out to be. It being unfinished is really the point I'm trying to make. The community has been given the tools to finish it, if we are so inclined. Not that I'm saying people should reward ubisoft with their money. Pirating exists for a reason

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted December 20, 2020 11:26 AM

Thatís a good, well-written post, Rim.

But I disagree with most of it.

H3 and H5 did not need mods to ďbecome the gems they are todayĒ. H3 was a gem on release, and H5 was a gem with Tote -if you can pardon the warcrafty universe, extremely long AI turns and bulky 3D. It is precisely because they were great games that they got mods. People mod games they enjoy, itís not the other way around. H7 would literally need to be saved instead of improved, which makes for a big difference. Speaking of which, if you start working with their editor you will rapidly understand another reason about the lack of mods: itís buggy as hell. And that is a huge deal.
I could not disagree more about the skill system being a ďnatural evolution of H5Ē, it was designed as a non-random one and adding a random option at the last minute does not make up for it. H5 skillwheel has flaws but it remains the most loved skill system in the whole series by the players, and the devs opinion on it does not change that. You compare the class and magic systems with H3ís but H3 is 20 years old. The developersís attitude was akin to expert players while on stream we saw them rushing for capitol and not understanding hero chaining. I am bitter yes, because a lot could have been saved in truth.
I do agree with FP that the visuals -save some units- are ugly in general, and the original atmosphere of the former games was lost already with H5. You can like it, but when you come from the older games, you feel something is missing, or more precisely that something is not right. The key thing Ubisoft never understood is that if they want to sell, they need to consider a fandom expectations, especially for what once was such a huge license. They are still sitting on a gold mine that only waits to be exploited though, but one has to understand its core to coherently develop on it.
____________

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MoritzBradtke
MoritzBradtke


Known Hero
posted December 20, 2020 02:15 PM

personally, i think H7 is the best, ive also played older entries but these are just outdated, i dont think u'll find help here as the heroes "fanbase" is pretty negative about heroes 7, i also wonder how heroes 7 can be visually ugly while they are playing games like 3, 4 or 5 which are just a giant pixel mess... basically... but ok, tastes are different so i dont mind at all, im just wondering...

personally, i think heroes 7 has great visuells and it is one point why i prefer it...
if u want to mod the game but feel like u cant handle it, u can take a look at my mod, i still uptade it but this game is a big project and as im also very picky, this is a big time project and i dont know if it will ever be 100% finished, it still lacks english loca but if u want to help with loca or want to give some feedback, u can give it a look

http://www.hommdb.com/mods/heroes7/h7-improved/

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Rimgrabber
Rimgrabber


Famous Hero
It's a fixer-upper
posted December 20, 2020 02:25 PM

Thanks, Galaad, I appreciate it.

I suppose that my perspective on the series as a whole is somewhat warped by the fact that I was only 5 or 6 when H5 came out, and that was the entry that I grew up with. I have vague memories of my parents playing H3 since I liked to watch them play, but ultimately that was a game I revisited much later. So, to me, Ashan and the "warcrafty" atmosphere don't feel out of place in the series, in fact for me it was the original universe that took getting used to, although I love it now and acknowledge its superiority. I guess that's why H7's art style is so appealing to me, it's sort of comforting that it's essentially an improved version of H5's, although I absolutely cannot stand spideropolis. While the black dragon model has grown on me somewhat, it certainly took a very long time to get used to and I fully understand why so many people hate it.

It is absolutely valid to point out that H3 is a 20-year-old game, and really, I meant to bring it up but didn't really know where to mention it. It goes entirely without saying that given that context, H3 completely blows H7, and even H5, out of the water. I only compared the two because I remembered people on the Shadow Council pointing to H3 as the apex of the series even in gameplay mechanics, which as I'm sure you'll agree is a bit silly. H5 improved on that aspect in pretty much every measurable way.

As for the skill system, I may have been embellishing it a bit although I maintain that it gets more hate than it deserves, even if it's not ideal. I vastly prefer H5.5's system myself, as most people do. In all honesty, I'm not even sure what I'd do to improve on it other than maybe having the perks in the skill trees change a bit from class-to-class. As for the class system, though, which I consider being a bit of a separate issue from the skill system, I still think H7 did it best. Actually, I could argue H6 did it better with the class-specific passive skills and spells, although the tears/blood system sort of ruined what could have been a good thing.

I'll definitely try to play around with the map editor and see how usable it actually is since it really is the crux of my argument. Of course, I know saving this game is probably a pipe dream, but I still thought I'd share my thoughts just in case. I messaged Antalayn about it, maybe we'll do something but I don't know.

Thanks again for taking the time to read the post though, I know this is not your favorite subject

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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted December 20, 2020 02:42 PM

MoritzBradtke said:
personally, i think H7 is the best, ive also played older entries but these are just outdated, i dont think u'll find help here as the heroes "fanbase" is pretty negative about heroes 7, i also wonder how heroes 7 can be visually ugly while they are playing games like 3, 4 or 5 which are just a giant pixel mess... basically... but ok, tastes are different so i dont mind at all, im just wondering...

personally, i think heroes 7 has great visuells and it is one point why i prefer it...
if u want to mod the game but feel like u cant handle it, u can take a look at my mod, i still uptade it but this game is a big project and as im also very picky, this is a big time project and i dont know if it will ever be 100% finished, it still lacks english loca but if u want to help with loca or want to give some feedback, u can give it a look

http://www.hommdb.com/mods/heroes7/h7-improved/


I think it's the creature models that doesn't appeal much people.
I agree that H7 has the best 3D engine but the graphical tuning is not done well. It's too fuzzy, to begin with.

H7 had great potential, for sure. I really like how the battle system is implemented. Flanking sounds interesting but becomes boring almost immediately. Skills are fine overall but doesn't feel right without randomness at level ups. But the worst offender is the buggy nature of virtually every feature. The game was simply left incomplete, under-tested and under-developed. It saddens me.


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MoritzBradtke
MoritzBradtke


Known Hero
posted December 20, 2020 06:39 PM

the game is what it is, still i love it for what it is (-:
the game is my first mod project and also i'm learning more about the unreal engine, it is interesting... how the game works...
however, i think the game would have deserved more LOVE as well but it just didnt work out, on one side u have a greedy publisher(im still glad we got the game, same as duel of champions but still they are rather greedy i guess but well, thats life i guess) on the other side gamer expections keep rising and people nickpicking about everything...

to be honest im glad there are still some good games being made as it is really a ton of work, and it continues... so if people love their old games that is fine but i really dont get what all that praise for these old games is for... i mean they rly arent that great at all, and then u have new games that lack some elements or have bugs, of course they do because they are new and games get more complex every day, they also take longer to develop, so even in "unfinished" state i prefer H7 over H3 or H5 anyday as it is very mod friendly, can be improved and is current gen, it is sad that ubi and limbic droped the support for the game

but i dont think the heroes fanebase deserves another entry, people tend to take such games as a given, it is not, so we wont see hereos 8 and this series will stay a thing of the past and i think people didnt support heroes 7 enough, if u really like a series u should support it, but oh well im bubbling too much i guess :<
however, for me, i'll try to put some more hours in my mod for the game, eventually do an english loca for it, when i feel like it, i would like to do a good scenario map as well but after that ill move on as well as this series future is very uncertain and sometimes u have to move on

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Rimgrabber
Rimgrabber


Famous Hero
It's a fixer-upper
posted December 20, 2020 07:01 PM

The fanbase isn't the problem. The problem is that Ubisoft is the worst of the worst when it comes to game developers and they don't care about anything that they can't farm for cash without spending enough money to actually finish the game. Heroes unfortunately isn't popular enough for that. As I said in the OP, Heroes 7 has some very good mechanics at its core, and while it would never be as popular as heroes 3 or 5, it would have gotten more love if Ubi had given a damn.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted December 20, 2020 07:10 PM

Galaad said:
It is precisely because they were great games that they got mods. People mod games they enjoy, itís not the other way around.


Exactly. Consequently, WoG simplified access to game files by providing  the needed tools, and from there people started working on templates generator. As result, you have today ~50(more?) possible configurations, what more to ask for a viable multiplayer.

MoritzBradtke said:
i also wonder how heroes 7 can be visually ugly while they are playing games like 3, 4 or 5 which are just a giant pixel mess


Actually is the opposite, I remember I posted once a comparative battle screen from H3 and H7. The difference was thrilling, at generic zoom level you could see sh!t in H7, battle stacks were pixels. Is once you start to zoom and rotate that you get a better quality, but then will negatively impact the overall perspective.

Visually, artistically and atmospherically H3 has no match, because all game features can gorgeously coexist in one screen, while in further game you have to focus on one feature, and that will be detrimental to other features. Easy to access interface is the first key, in my opinion, to successful games.
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Era II mods and utilities

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Sherekhaan
Sherekhaan


Adventuring Hero
posted December 21, 2020 11:32 AM

I have a dirty, shameful secret...

I pre-ordered H7, but I was so disappointed with the release I never installed it and never played it, probably how a bunch of people feel about cyberpunk now.

I have been revisting H3, H5 and even MoM while I eagerly await for the next generation. Your thread has maybe motivated me to try it if the next generation is delayed

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sirironfist
sirironfist


Known Hero
King of the ogres
posted December 21, 2020 12:59 PM

Sherekhaan said:
I have a dirty, shameful secret...

I pre-ordered H7, but I was so disappointed with the release I never installed it and never played it, probably how a bunch of people feel about cyberpunk now.



I even pre-ordered the super-duper-special-box for 100 bucks and then barely played it. I promised myself back then that I would never buy an Ubi product again.
Some pretty graphics are the best thing about H7, but even those looked better on the initial concept arts.

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zydar
zydar


Hired Hero
posted December 21, 2020 01:39 PM
Edited by zydar at 13:41, 21 Dec 2020.

The original HOMM art by NWC sit betwen medieval, high fantasy, steam punk, gothic,scifi with right dosage,
simply and clear there is no over dosage betwen themes style, very harmonius
its give feel M&M universe distinct style, at same still can compete with D&D, Baldur gate, Diablo, Elder scroll art
The art direction very earthly even for fantasy creatures,
its for all age preferences, for all tastes

But Since Under Ubisof, they  pull more on  childish high fantasy dream, to appeal warcraft, warhammer, final fantasy, east asian mmo-games player, where was that times so popular game
the New HOMM art direction for old NWC HOMM player feel lack of originality, lack of common taste, feel ugly, lost their spirit
They feel the art its not made for them, but for another game fans
But for Ubisoft HOMM generation player, its ok

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The_Gootch
The_Gootch


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
posted December 21, 2020 09:02 PM

I left Heroes after V because I was done with turn-based strategy games that refused to implement fulltime simultaneous turns for multi-player.  I left my beloved for Civilization and never regretted the decision.


____________

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
Undorcover modder
posted December 21, 2020 09:05 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 21:07, 21 Dec 2020.

HoMM3 HD+ mod go brrrrrrrrrr!!!!

Edit: Even H5 has sim turns now.
____________
"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 21, 2020 10:12 PM

Rimgrabber said:


The core game mechanics of Heroes 7 are actually, in my opinion, very very good.

Well ... they are NOT, that's the real problem here. MMH7 is the 7th game in the series. There were 6 games before that and the game was advertised as a "best-of", which means, that in theory the best features of all games would be taken and stitched together to a new "Frankenstein".
This alone was a fateful decision, because you cannot do that in my opinion, because not everything works with everything.
And in practise it wasn't true either, because I think if everyone agreed upon one thing than the fact that the H5 skill system was a pinnacle and that the free-pick system of H6 was crap.
Still, what we got was a mutilated H5 system combined with free-picks at first release, which shows that they had no idea what the "best" features were.
They also didn't realize that the thing that H6 - in its own way - and H4 had been solving, was the biggest problem of them alL: to balance might and magic.
This didn't happen at all.

I won't go into detail here, because it's too much, but think about how the game started out.
In the beginning you had passive skills (PRIMARY skill, the sheer stats) and ACTIVE skills (spells).
Then came SECONDARY skills which were a different kind or additonal passive skils.
H5 rearranged the secondary skills and also introduced relevant secondary MAGIC skills (that is, secondary skills that support active combat abilities instead just "Sorcery".

Now, there is a cap of possible PASSIVE skills as opposed to active ones, because the active ones are actually the ones that are fun. It kills the game, when you already start the battle with a plethora of passive bonusses, that are all displayed when you mouse-over a unit.

In H5 you had 3 skill levels and a lot more abilities - but you could just pick THREE. In H7 you can - and actually should - pick all SEVEN, which is lame and boring.
Spells, on the other hand, were REDUCED, which doesn't make any sense, because it's the balance of active and passive abilities are doing the trick.

In short, they had all those games before and they showed that they simply didn't understand the problems and pitfalls.

And what about this monumental creature balance screw-up? And creature numbers inflation? I mean, in week 2 you'll have such a crapload of Elves on any "usual" map, it's not even funny anymore.

The simply truth is, it's completely misdesigned, and when it became obvious it was, it was too late to change anything, although I still think they didn't get the actual problems.

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Rimgrabber
Rimgrabber


Famous Hero
It's a fixer-upper
posted December 21, 2020 10:52 PM

I think the crux of our disagreement here is that we aren't going by the same definition of "core" mechanics. Aside from the skill system, all of the things you mentioned are balance issues that can easily be fixed.

As for the skill system, while I agree that it's a downgrade from H5 and especially 5.5, I think you're mischaracterizing it a bit. Going for all 7 perks in a skill tree would be a terrible idea simply because of how many levels that costs, but on top of that, some of the different perks are geared towards different playstyles, some of them towards secondary heroes only, etc. Doing so greatly hurts your ability to develop your hero in other areas, it's a question of how specialized you want your build to be and what's more valuable at the current stage of the game. I think the lack of secondary magic skills besides the magic schools themselves is definitely a big problem, as is the balancing of the perks, but I'm pretty sure that's also fixable, although I'm still trying to learn the modding tools.
____________
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=46284&pagenumber=1
^ Part 2 of my proposal for Heroes 8 (Part 3 coming soon)

you lost your internet privileges

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 21, 2020 11:31 PM

"Balancing" is something that can be changed by simply changing some variables. If that is enough to improve the state of the game then you talk about having to change core or base mechanics.

As I said, for me the game is misdesigned and a lost cause.

But if you want to try and mod it to something great, maybe you can prove me wrong. So go ahead.

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Rimgrabber
Rimgrabber


Famous Hero
It's a fixer-upper
posted December 22, 2020 01:20 AM

Iím certainly going to try. Iíll have to learn how to mod first, but Iíll try.
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http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=46284&pagenumber=1
^ Part 2 of my proposal for Heroes 8 (Part 3 coming soon)

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MoritzBradtke
MoritzBradtke


Known Hero
posted December 23, 2020 03:51 PM

good luck if u are going to do, but many have said/tried so and they didnt release anything worthwile, the only 3 mods im aware of are mine, ucp and the new one from lord gra and we are modding the game since the day it came out...

there are certainly  easy things u can do like changing some creature stats but even there it is easy to snow something up because there are so many variables you have to watch, also if u want to create something new or special u're gonna have to do quite some trial and error and it takes time, same as bug fixing, polish, testing and similiar problems, while modding the game isnt so difficult, it is a process that eats a lot of time still and u still need to learn the way the game is scripted if u want to change anything to the better, if u dont know how the game works in the background, it doesnt mean much changing it (talking about AI here), also the editor for the game files and the map editor are 2 very seperate things, u can be good on one and bad on the other, learning the way the archetypes work, so creature abilities,spell etc. do what u want can be more difficult than u first think and even if u take the game or mods as template to practice things, it will take u a a lot of time to create a decent mod and dont exspect anyone will do it for you at this point, even the people from the the other mods stoped working together, so i heard at last

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