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Heroes Community > Volcanic Wastelands > Thread: The Transgender Matrix: It’s Time to Choose the Red Pill
Thread: The Transgender Matrix: It’s Time to Choose the Red Pill This thread is 27 pages long: 1 ... 8 9 10 11 12 ... 20 27 · «PREV / NEXT»
artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted June 14, 2021 09:55 AM
Edited by artu at 09:55, 14 Jun 2021.

@Sal

The point that just willingly mutilating your body isnt enough to call you nuts and that for something to be called a mental delusion, you should be unable to grasp external reality.

@fred

I have the facts on my side. The scientific community isnt paid to fake conclusions.

@blob

Because it is his tongue.
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted June 14, 2021 10:16 AM

Instead of filling every one of your posts with empty, conspirical and generic non-sense, why dont you answer his simple question, is that the scenario you claim? It certainly seems so, by your own words.

And of course, I dont have what it takes to fully comprehend your lunacy, freddy. I’m sane, remember. I have to abide to logic, reason, proportion. I cant believe whatever I wish to.
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fred79
fred79


Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 14, 2021 10:28 AM
Edited by fred79 at 12:50, 14 Jun 2021.

@ artu: you already dropped out; why are you continuing?

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blob2
blob2


Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted June 14, 2021 10:35 AM

artu said:
@blob

Because it is his tongue.


I was asking what makes you think he is mentally ill.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted June 14, 2021 10:40 AM

artu said:
The point that just willingly mutilating your body isnt enough to call you nuts and that for something to be called a mental delusion, you should be unable to grasp external reality.


Of course, when you compare removing genitalia and breasts to circumcision, which is absurd.

Sex-reassignment isn't comparable to that, not only it removes your reproductive organs and leaves terrible and unaesthetic scars at the exact place you usually want to look optimal, but also requires  taking hormone supplements for the rest of your life. You will never be yourself anymore, you will be in a permanent transformation, you will lose the ability of being desirable - based on normal standards, the ability of having an orgasm, the ability of procreating, the ability of having an intimate contact without inhibition, and such things are not peanuts.

Where are the studies warning that you may never be considered as desirable, that loneliness may push you even more to suicide, that this surgery may put an end to what objectively still was normal social interaction, that the subjective unhappiness you felt may turn into real despair without comeback?

Harsh reality yet necessary before taking decision. Where is it?

This is why I think those people don't grasp external reality, acting immature and bad advised, to start with the "sex-reassignment" concept itself, which is a lie. You will not get another sex, you will have yours removed, that's all.


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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted June 14, 2021 10:45 AM
Edited by artu at 10:50, 14 Jun 2021.

@blob
Because he believes he is a lizard although he is not.

But if you’re asking this to draw a parallel and say, “see, same with trans people,” as I already said, it is not comparable because in this case the guy dont have biological brainwiring to feel like a lizard. Trans people know they are not exactly the same as a regular woman (or man), it’s not a mental fantasy, it’s a real condition of their body.

@sal

Well the problem is that, they dont feel desirable in the body they are born in to begin with. And what do you think is being discussed during the psychiatric evaluation that is mandatory before the operation. You seriously think such things arent explained and they just hop on the operation table…
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blob2
blob2


Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted June 14, 2021 12:14 PM
Edited by blob2 at 12:15, 14 Jun 2021.

artu said:
@blob
Because he believes he is a lizard although he is not.

But if you’re asking this to draw a parallel and say, “see, same with trans people,” as I already said, it is not comparable because in this case the guy dont have biological brainwiring to feel like a lizard. Trans people know they are not exactly the same as a regular woman (or man), it’s not a mental fantasy, it’s a real condition of their body.


No, I won't do parallels because science does "not allow" me to anymore. So let's agree we don't get to name gender dysphoria as "illness" anymore because that was proven (I don't want to agree fully because I don't trust scientists blindly, as simple as that, I mentioned my standing before). But what I'm wondering is what exactly makes people say some "deviations" are "ok" and some are described as mental illnesses, ofc until a scientific proof is found to green-lit it as something perfectly fine.

Your a man who leans heavily to science and what was "proven", you probably know about the "reptilian brain" of humans https://www.interaction-design.org/literature/article/our-three-brains-the-reptilian-brain. Now are you absolutely sure there is no not-yet-discovered correlation between human and reptilian "drives", if we can call it that, maybe some behavioral patterns which can explain behavior such as the aforementioned "lizard man"? This is a serious question.

Plus again: most of us are not discussing the scientific backing behind gender dysphoria anymore, but how it is promoted as something completely normal and encouraged even.

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fred79
fred79


Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 14, 2021 12:26 PM
Edited by fred79 at 12:53, 14 Jun 2021.

edit: moved my globalist talk to this thread.

jj, if you could remove your posts here on that subject, that'd be awesome. i already moved it all over there.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted June 14, 2021 01:03 PM
Edited by artu at 13:05, 14 Jun 2021.

@ blob2

Okay, this is getting really annoying because for the forth frigging time: Gender dysphoria is a type of distress, not a mental delusion. Distress is NOT delusion. People have the surgery to fix the distress. Read the definitons of the terms you are using. When they’re born with genetic and hormonal irregularities, there is an incompatibility with their anatomical features and their neurological wiring, which causes stress, this is not a mental illness in the sense the word has been used here. If you burn your face in a fire and have horrible scars, you can feel distress, you can feel depressed etc. But we wouldnt say “having a burnt face is a mental illness” would we? And if you decide to have a risky surgery to change the way your face looks although it will never be exactly the same as a regular face, this is not a delusion either.

And it’s non-sense to say something like “science doesnt allow you to draw parallels anymore.” It’s not about being allowed or not, it’s just that such a parallel would be ridiculously absurd. Reptilians go way back in the evolutionary tree than primates, we share common ancestors, so yes, there are parts of reptilian brain that share features with yours. It’s not called “the lizard-brain” anymore as far as I remember, but the part in your brain that is responsible for territorial behavior goes back to the times of reptilian evolution. We ALL still have that. This has nothing to do with feeling like you are a lizard though. Where as hormones have directly to do with how you feel about which gender you belong to. You share genetic ancestry with lizards, having a genetic irregularity regarding your gender is totally something else.

It’s as if, because of the social norms you guys are used to, you desire it to be a mental delusion.
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fred79
fred79


Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 14, 2021 01:17 PM

yeah, artu, and they have a medication that works specifically for that "stress". no mutilation or suicide involved.

you lose. again.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted June 14, 2021 01:25 PM

Yeah fred, I’m sure they want surgery because they cant reach the pills in the top drawer. Medicine is not a permanent solution for them, it’s just a pain killer.

I’m sure “I lose again” in fredland, I mean after reading your “theory” of the great global conflict, nothing you say can surprise me about what goes on in that head of yours.
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fred79
fred79


Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 14, 2021 01:50 PM

it's not a theory though, babycakes. theories need facts, don't they? facts, on the other hand, speak for themselves. all you have to do is add all the facts up, and you get the complete puzzle.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted June 14, 2021 01:53 PM

Lol, when facts dont fit, you simply claim “they are paid to say so” which you can extrapolate forever.
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fred79
fred79


Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 14, 2021 02:00 PM

argue all you want babycakes, it's still facts. going to sleep now. take care, babycakes.

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blob2
blob2


Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted June 14, 2021 03:18 PM
Edited by blob2 at 16:01, 14 Jun 2021.

artu said:
@ blob2
Okay, this is getting really annoying because for the forth frigging time: Gender dysphoria is a type of distress, not a mental delusion. Distress is NOT delusion. People have the surgery to fix the distress. Read the definitons of the terms you are using.


Ok, so you are referencing to something that was redefined two years ago https://www.bbc.com/news/health-48448804. Distress is defined as mental or physical suffering or anguish (medical dictionary), and the classification of transgender as "mental disorder" was changed. On a side note body modifications can also cause distress. See a pattern here or must I spell it for you? Nvm though. Laws, definitions and regulations evolve all the time, hopefully to enable some groups of people to better their social situation. The core reason is probably this: "while also ensuring access to necessary health interventions" which is fair (access to medical treatment is of importance here, because as we all know "the system" likes to leave people to their own devices, unless strictly specified in the guidelines, and hopefully it's nothing as hazardous as medical companies profiting from it), but imo you use this definition in too much of a "argument-against-all" assumption. But fact is, people now cling to it because it gives them leverage in discussions. Again, this works both ways, there are good and bad sides. If it was only as pure as helping the people who really need it to find help with their "distress". Unfortunately, there is also this whole caravan of "specialists", influencers, opportunists and left-leaning media pushing the subject on everyone else, in most cases either to promote themselves or gain "points". It turns to aggression against anyone who disagrees, because he has different values.

I know at this point you treat me like an imbecile, cus I do not agree with your "people who make the calls (WHO) have spoken, it is written right here" and I stubbornly "refuse" to accept scientific facts. Ofc anyone who tries to have his own opinion can now have his mouth shut with "science says so". Maybe that's me being too stubborn in not accepting the new "norms"... but I simply think humanity is too complex to take everything at point value and likes to twist everything for its gain, plus science is evolving and can be harmful in ways that are hard to predict (but don't want to expand on this point, don't have the time). Gender dysphoria treatment promotion, on the backing of that it is now "legit" is in my opinion one such instance. Like some people here say: we still don't know the full extent of how much such changes influence the society, in how many instances this will help, or actually harm the people in question. Their condition might not be as serious, but they might make it so due to outside influence. People (especially young people) shouldn't be taught that "meds" or therapies is the only way to solve their mental problems. It's not like each and every one of them will receive proper treatment, in many cases this might be "half-assed" help, because there are many half-assed doctors or psychiatrist (or maybe their in for the money? A long and extended therapy is veeeery profitable, just sayin) and parents who "know better" and encourage their children because their 5-year old son likes to play with dolls. Don't be naive here, not many will receive extended help.

artu said:
It’s as if, because of the social norms you guys are used to, you desire it to NOT be a mental delusion.


Fixed it for you.

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Gandalf196
Gandalf196


Disgraceful
Supreme Hero
posted June 14, 2021 03:36 PM

Artu, take a look at this dude:



THREE MONTHS after Mengelian indoctrination and poisoning of human beings gender therapy and hormone treament, he had his testicles removed. Let that sink in. The West has come to accept that medical doctors can castrate people so that they can live their twisted perception of reality. That could be your son. I fear the day normal people will have to take up arms against doctors, judges, the establishment actors that want to destroy you and your family.

Source of the picture: https://youtu.be/1qNCvKwG3Iw
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted June 14, 2021 04:19 PM
Edited by artu at 16:44, 14 Jun 2021.

@blob2

How is that a fix, there is not a society where transexuality is traditionally a common norm.

If you want to take the Gandalf road and explain scientific consensus by conspiracy, well, that is an imbecile thing to do, although I didnt treat you like one and playing the victim is a cheap trick. Once again, I dont only link definitions and say “that’s that” I give you the courtesy of explaining why I agree and why I also wouldnt call such a distress, a mental delusion. Meanwhile, you guys have no solid argument against why it should be defined as a delusion although these people are aware of the condition they are in, but sustain this empty rhetoric of “so, we should shut up because experts say so.” It’s dull. And no, no parent would put their kid through surgery just because they play with dolls. These are unrealistic hyperboles. We are talking about a genetic, hormonal hardwired condition and you are not in a position to deny them the right to do what they see fit because of some conservative “oh, what is the society coming to” whim. People also said such things when abortion was legalized, when segregation was removed, when women earned the right to vote etc etc.
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blob2
blob2


Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted June 14, 2021 05:06 PM
Edited by blob2 at 17:39, 14 Jun 2021.

It’s as if, because of the social norms you guys are used to, you desire it to NOT be a mental delusion.

artu said:
How is that a fix, there is not a society where transexuality is traditionally a common norm.


That's generalisation, the same tactic you used.

Your following answer in post shows you completly miss my point. I'm actually disappointed. You turn a blind eye to societies inner workings, even though you live in one, and proceed to depict everything in black and white colors. That's absurd. "There are no" bad parents or scientists pushing hazardous, unchecked treatments or the like. All unrealistic hyperboles, of course.

artu said:
If you want to take the Gandalf road and explain scientific consensus by conspiracy


Where did I mention it's a conspiracy? In short my general thought can be summerized as "people, even scientists, are not always right". The only "conspiracy" piece here is that there are always people who will profit from sth so it might be pushed or "graciously accepted".

artu said:
Meanwhile, you guys have no solid argument against why it should be defined as a delusion although these people are aware of the condition they are in, but sustain this empty rhetoric of “so, we should shut up because experts say so.” It’s dull.


It's exactly what they want us to do it seems. "Shut up, you don't have right to speak". We are past civil discussion, that is my impression. What defines if an argument is solid, if each and every one against this is repulsed? Some of these people don't even give you a chance to speak without twisting your narrative, the so called "activists" for example.

artu said:
I give you the courtesy of explaining why I agree and why I also wouldnt call such a distress as a mental delusion


"I woudn't call"? I got a completly different impression from you, you are patronizing others becasue of an ordinance of an influential organization. The same organization that is accused of mishandling the pandemic, just saying (not symmoning "Trump", I'm actually talking about cases like this https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/11/who-accused-conspiring-italy-remove-damning-covid-report). Suddenly you play nice in yout next post? What gives?

When someone is trying to have a civil discussion, you actually turn to the same tactic you point out in others: ridiculing and diminishing. And ofc you will respond in something like "I discuss only when I deem a discussion worth my time". A very nice thing to say...

artu said:
you are not in a position to deny them the right to do what they see fit because of some conservative “oh, what is the society coming to” whim.


Seems you only pretend to read what I write or are jumping to conclusions immidiately becasue you don't agree with my opinion and tag me as "you people". Where did I ever state I deny transgender people the right to change sex? Whatever I may think I will never deny someones rights, becasue frankly, I don't give a rats ass what other people do with their lives as long as it's not something that influences my life or I find destructive in some aspects. I don't want to play the "ignorant" card each time when important social discussion with consequences that can reach me, for example in my job where I already feel its influence. My concern is with promotion, diminishment and common acceptance of things that are not quite ethically sound due to the very nature of humanity and how it exploits every damn thing.

I'm done here, no point in going with this further. Jokes on me for trying to have a "serious" discussion...

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted June 14, 2021 05:38 PM

First things first, I wont apologize for ridiculing some of Gandalf’s and fred’s posts because they are absolutely ridiculous. You can notice I dont do that to everyone I disagree with but please, let us not pretend that all things posted here is just some level-headed difference of opinion. Most people simply dont even bother to reply to them and it’s starting to seem like a better idea to me, too. Bat-snow crazy global conspiracies about population control or meme spamming in the worst sense is not that.

1- My generalisation had a logic to it: It is very clear why something is categorized as a mental delusion and again, very clear why a condition that is not a mental delusion but a biochemical/neurological condition isnt categorized as one. Since this has been repeatedly explained and it has also been explained (with scientific definitions) that gender dysphoria is not classified as a delusion, it seems like the only reason to keep denying this very simple and comprehendable fact has some other psychological motive behihd it. When you reverse it and play “I’m rubber and you’re glue” the logic doesnt apply.

2- Yes, scientists can make mistakes but we’re not talking about one scientist with a new hypothesis. Thousands of people had these operations and kept on functioning in life, so I have no reason to doubt that not defining it as a delusion is a mistake. Unless you do have a conspiracy about some serious pressure on the scientific community, there is no explanation to why the consensus would be different. Also return to number 1.

3- A solid argument would be to give a rational argument to why it should be defined as a delusion. “Being repulsed” is not that, actually it is the opposite of that and that was exactly what I meant above, you want it to be a delusion because you are repulsed. Trans people dont have to act according to your repulsion though.

4- Yes, there are bad parents but having your kid a sex change operation is huge and almost nobody would be bad enough to take such a decision lightly. Hence, your old rhetoric of “okay, let them do it but dont promote it” is moot. Nobody advertises such surgery like some holiday in a resort hotel. They just fight against the hate and humiliation and if you especially take a look at Gandalfs posts and memes, you can see how real that is.

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blob2
blob2


Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted June 14, 2021 05:59 PM
Edited by blob2 at 18:01, 14 Jun 2021.

artu said:
1- My generalisation had a logic to it: It is very clear why something is categorized as a mental delusion and again, very clear why a condition that is not a mental delusion but a biochemical/neurological condition isnt categorized as one. Since this has been repeatedly explained and it has also been explained (with scientific definitions) that gender dysphoria is not classified as a delusion, it seems like the only reason to keep denying this very simple and comprehendable fact has some other psychological motive behihd it. When you reverse it and play “I’m rubber and you’re glue” the logic doesnt apply.


Fair point. Again not denying it, while calling it mental delusion I have something else in mind (that not all cases can be defined as distress), but let's use scientific terms. Unless someone decides to change it yet again in a couple of years...

artu said:
2- Yes, scientists can make mistakes but we’re not talking about one scientist with a new hypothesis. Thousands of people had these operations and kept on functioning in life, so I have no reason to doubt that not defining it as a delusion is a mistake. Unless you do have a conspiracy about some serious pressure on the scientific community, there is no explanation to why the consensus would be different. Also return to number 1.


As long as those people can vouch for it and are happy (not taking cases like Page seriously, that's a celebrity so most of it might be for show). I didn't see the exact numbers nor research, can I take you're word for it? Also, again, what about those "unlucky" ones who now see it as a mistake? How does WHO respond to such cases? Will someone take amenability for them?

artu said:
3- A solid argument would be to give a rational argument to why it should be defined as a delusion. “Being repulsed” is not that, actually it is the opposite of that and that was exactly what I meant above, you want it to be a delusion because you are repulsed. Trans people dont have to act according to your repulsion though.


I've seen more qualified people then me who were denied their opinion.

artu said:
4- Yes, there are bad parents but having your kid a sex change operation is huge and almost nobody would be bad enough to take such a decision lightly. Hence, your old rhetoric of “okay, let them do it but dont promote it” is moot. Nobody advertises such surgery like some holiday in a resort hotel. They just fight against the hate and humiliation and if you especially take a look at Gandalfs posts and memes, you can see how real that is.



It is advertised actually. Maybe not that extreme like resort yeah But every medical service or legal advice needs to be advertised no? For example a law firm that cooperates with a school: https://www.law.berkeley.edu/experiential/pro-bono-program/slps/current-slps-projects/name-gender-change-workshop/. It's how this world rolls.

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