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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: New
Thread: New This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted July 06, 2021 02:39 PM
Edited by MattII at 14:40, 06 Jul 2021.

New Adventure Map Spells

Okay, I've recently been wondering about adventure map spells, and have noticed that, apart from the basic three of Dimension Door (until Heroes III, reappears in Heroes V), Summon Boat and Town Gate, the number of spells per game can vary wildly. F.E. Heroes I has 10 adventure spells, while Heroes II has 17. Heroes III drops back to 10, though this is less of a loss than you'd think, as four of the spells lost are 'View X' spells, which are folded into View Air/Earth. Heroes IV however, drops it 4 just 5, while Heroes V drops it to just 4, and Heroes VII only raises it to 6.

I wonder in anyone else has any ideas for new (ie, not appearing in any previous heroes game) adventure spells. I'll try a few first:
Farsight - Extends the hero's sight radius by 2/3/5/7 tiles, depending on the proficiency in the chosen school.
Quagmire - Creates a 2x2 space that impedes (space takes three times the regular movement points to cross) the progress of enemy heroes for the next 1/1/2/3 turns.
False Force - Neutral creatures will react as though your force is 20/25/50/100% bigger.

Edit: Can a mod please change the title of this to 'New Adventure Map Spells'?

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Alon
Alon


Known Hero
posted July 07, 2021 04:55 PM

These all look cool!

But at the same time, they don't look like spells in the sense of being the powers I expect of a wizard. For example, the increased scouting range is what I expect of a might hero with a highly mobile army. Perhaps, in the same way the speed of an army on the adventure map is determined by the slowest unit, the scouting radius should be determined by the fastest, since the role of real-life cavalry includes scouting ahead and reporting on the battlefield, to the point that modern armies sometimes call helicopters cavalry if they perform the same role.

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted July 07, 2021 11:38 PM

Alon said:
These all look cool!

But at the same time, they don't look like spells in the sense of being the powers I expect of a wizard. For example, the increased scouting range is what I expect of a might hero with a highly mobile army. Perhaps, in the same way the speed of an army on the adventure map is determined by the slowest unit, the scouting radius should be determined by the fastest, since the role of real-life cavalry includes scouting ahead and reporting on the battlefield, to the point that modern armies sometimes call helicopters cavalry if they perform the same role.
Yeah, but you could say the same about Visions.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted July 07, 2021 11:49 PM

MattII said:
Edit: Can a mod please change the title of this to 'New Adventure Map Spells'?


Eh, haven't seen Maurice in ages
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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted July 08, 2021 12:00 AM
Edited by MattII at 00:01, 08 Jul 2021.

I actually IMed Alcibiades (according to this he's one of the Moderators for The Altar), but so far he hasn't gotten back to me.

But, um, hey, since you're here, could you possibly change it for me?

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted July 08, 2021 08:36 AM

Alcibiades is not a moderator anymore. Assigned moderators are visible at the right of the homepage. Only a moderator that is assigned to a specific section can rename a thread, so sadly I can't.
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NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted July 08, 2021 09:05 AM

Not completely bad idea, but there is a danger of making magic "everything that might can do, but better". If magic has these powers, might has to be improved too.
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Never changing = never improving

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted July 08, 2021 10:22 AM
Edited by MattII at 10:53, 08 Jul 2021.

Galaad said:
Alcibiades is not a moderator anymore. Assigned moderators are visible at the right of the homepage. Only a moderator that is assigned to a specific section can rename a thread, so sadly I can't.
So who is the moderator for The Altar?

NimoStar said:
Not completely bad idea, but there is a danger of making magic "everything that might can do, but better". If magic has these powers, might has to be improved too.
Fair. OTOH, making the spell costs sufficiently high should balance them out, at least in the early game.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted July 08, 2021 11:37 AM

MattII said:
Galaad said:
Alcibiades is not a moderator anymore. Assigned moderators are visible at the right of the homepage. Only a moderator that is assigned to a specific section can rename a thread, so sadly I can't.
So who is the moderator for The Altar?


Like it shows, Maurice.

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted July 08, 2021 02:02 PM

Ah, okay. Thanks.

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Alon
Alon


Known Hero
posted July 10, 2021 09:47 PM

MattII said:
Alon said:
These all look cool!

But at the same time, they don't look like spells in the sense of being the powers I expect of a wizard. For example, the increased scouting range is what I expect of a might hero with a highly mobile army. Perhaps, in the same way the speed of an army on the adventure map is determined by the slowest unit, the scouting radius should be determined by the fastest, since the role of real-life cavalry includes scouting ahead and reporting on the battlefield, to the point that modern armies sometimes call helicopters cavalry if they perform the same role.
Yeah, but you could say the same about Visions.


The difference is that scrying is a common mythological trope about magic.

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted July 11, 2021 11:20 AM
Edited by MattII at 14:00, 11 Jul 2021.

Thematically, both are scrying in one form or another.

Also, you are allowed to suggest your own spells, that's why I started this thread, to discuss ideas for adventure magic spells.

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Alon
Alon


Known Hero
posted July 12, 2021 12:58 AM

Hmmm.

So, I think of adventure map magic as either scrying, or motion.

Motion means flying, water walking, and teleportation. I kinda like the idea of heroes as leaders and not just personal fighters and so, in the same way might heroes enhance the troops' attack and defense rates, magic heroes should be able to lead caster units and make it easier for them to mass-cast such motion spells, while a larger (non-magical) army should be inherently harder to enhance.

So if your unit comp is mostly pikemen and archers plus a few casters, it's going to be really difficult to cast a flying spell - it may not be possible at all, or maybe the range of the spell will be very short. But if the comp includes more casters, like monks or the court wizards I put in my castle proposal that everyone hated, then it should be easier, i.e. with more range, less mana cost, etc. This should naturally be easier with a more magical army - an academy army that's half fliers should be easier to lift or teleport somewhere.

Scrying is like when Saruman spies on the protags with birds. So this could be scrying on enemy heroes and towns, or on key resource nodes and chokepoints. As with motion, this should really turn the hero into a leader of casters and not just a personal caster, so having more caster units makes it easier.

So what's the difficulty with scrying? Well, the other side doesn't want to be scried on! So, each army should have some kind of scrying resistance rating. A magic hero is better at this than a might hero, but the secondary skill for this is different (maybe it's resistance?). Likewise, having caster units is useful, but there might be units that are best at avoiding magical detection, like rogues, or maybe golems.

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted July 12, 2021 11:04 AM

Scrying and motion describe nearly all adventure magic. However, there are a few spells (Haunt, Set Air/Earth/Fire/Water Guardian in Heroes 2, Summon Creatures in Heroes 5, and Instant Reinforcements, Sylanna's Bounty, and Malassa's Temptation in Heroes 7) that don't fit into either category.

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gorman
gorman


Promising
Legendary Hero
Been around since before 2003
posted July 19, 2021 03:20 AM

Galaad said:
MattII said:
Galaad said:
Alcibiades is not a moderator anymore. Assigned moderators are visible at the right of the homepage. Only a moderator that is assigned to a specific section can rename a thread, so sadly I can't.
So who is the moderator for The Altar?


Like it shows, Maurice.



Perhaps ask the big guy Val if he might be able to fix it?
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When all else fails... Take notes.... ALL the time... ESPECIALLY when playing D&D.... or Pokemon in my case

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fred79
fred79


Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 19, 2021 05:49 AM

it's highly probable they're both equally difficult to reach/respond.

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ArdentWyrm
ArdentWyrm


Famous Hero
King of the Elder Dragons
posted November 15, 2022 12:09 AM

This thread is going off-topic.

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted November 15, 2022 10:04 AM
Edited by MattII at 10:20, 15 Nov 2022.

Okay, to make this bit easier to understand, I'll list the spells from the various games:
Heroes 1
Level 1
* View Mines - Shows the location of all mines and their owners on the World View.
* View Resources - Shows the location of all remaining resources on the map in World View.
Level 2
* Summon Boat - Summons nearest friendly, empty boat to caster's location.
* View Artifacts - Shows the location of all remaining artifacts on the World View.
Level 3
* Identify Hero - Allows you to view an enemy hero's statistics and army size.
* View Heroes - Shows the location and color of all heroes on the World View.
* View Towns - Shows the location and color of all towns on the World View.
Level 4
* Dimension Door - Teleports the caster to an unoccupied visible location.
* Town Gate - Teleports the caster to the nearest friendly town.
* View All - Combines all the previous View spells, and shows the entire map in the World View.
Heroes 2
Level 1
* View Mines - Shows the location of all mines, and their controllers, on World View.
* View Resources - Shows the location of all remaining resources on the map in World View.
Level 2
* Haunt - Deflags a mine and sets 4x Power ghosts to guard it.
* Summon Boat - Summons nearest friendly, empty boat to caster's location.
* View Artifacts - Shows the location of all remaining artifacts on the World View.
* Visions - Gives relative strength of an army camp, and whether that camp will offer to join the hero.
Level 3
* Identify Hero - Allows you to view an enemy hero's statistics and army size.
* View Heroes - Shows the location and color of all heroes in the World View.
* View Towns - Shows the location and color of all towns in the World View.
Level 4
* Set Air Guardian - Sets 4x Power in Air Elementals to guard the mine.
* Set Earth Guardian - Sets 4x Power in Earth Elementals to guard the mine.
* Set Fire Guardian - Sets 4x Power in Fire Elementals to guard the mine.
* Set Water Guardian - Sets 4x Power in Water Elementals to guard the mine.
* Town Gate - Teleports hero to nearest friendly town.
* View All - Combines all the previous View spells, and shows the entire map in the World View.
Level 5
* Dimension Door - Teleports the hero to an unoccupied, visible location.
* Town portal - Teleports the hero to any friendly town.
Heroes 3
Level 1
* Summon Boat - Summons an existing, friendly, unoccupied boat from anywhere in the world to your location.
* View Air - Reveals the location of all unclaimed artifacts(/heroes/towns) to the caster.
* View Earth - Reveals the location of all resources(/mines/terrain) to the caster.
Level 2
* Disguise - Gives false information to an enemy attempting to view your hero.
* Scuttle Boat - Destroys a boat you own. Use with caution, the effects are permanent.
* Visions - Displays number of monsters in a wandering monster troop and whether or not the troop will offer to join the casting hero’s army.
Level 3
Level 4
* Town Portal - Teleports your hero to the nearest friendly town. The town must be unoccupied.
* Water Walk - Allows your army to use part of its movement to walk across bodies of water. You must end your movement on dry land.
Level 5
* Dimension Door - Once per day, you may teleport your hero to a visible, unoccupied location on the adventure map.
* Fly - Allows your army to use part of its movement to fly over obstacles. You must land at the end of the turn.
Heroes 4
Level 1
* Pathfinding - Pathfinding grants an army no movement penalty on the Adventure Map.
* Summon Ship - Summon Ship causes a single ship to appear at the caster's present location.
* Visions - Visions shows you the exact number of troops in an army and reveals the skills of enemy hero.
Level 2
* Mire - Mire causes the target to move at half speed on Adventure Map during its next turn.
Heroes 5
Level 2
* Vessel of Shalassa - Summons a sea ship. Hero must stand on a shore and there must be an unoccupied boat nearby for the spell to be successful.
Level 3
* Summon Creatures - Summons creatures from nearest town. Takes 75% of heroes starting movement points.
Level 4
* Instant Travel - Teleports the hero and his entire army to another location on adventure map.
Level 5
* Town Portal - Transports hero to the nearest friendly town - all the movement points will be lost.
Heroes 6
Heroes 7
Tier 1
* Blessing of Arkath - Deals fire damage to random enemy target(s) at the beginning of the next combat.
* Elrath's conviction - Increases the hero's Defence and Leadership for the next combat.
* Instant recall - Teleports the hero and his army to the nearest friendly town with a Town Portal, instantly. Does not work between surface and underground.
* Instant reinforcements - Teleports selected creatures from the nearest friendly town with a Town Portal to the hero, instantly. The mana cost is based on the number of creatures to be teleported. Does not work between surface and underground.
* Malassa's temptation - Increases the chances that neutral armies offer to join the hero, until the end of the day.
* Sylanna's bounty - Doubles the production rate of the target Sawmill or Ore Pit in the same area of control for the next days.
* Vessel of Shalassa - Summons a ship on nearby water, instantly.
* Ylath's clairvoyance - Reveals a circular area around the target spot instantly.

So we get 10 spells in Heroes 1, 17 in Heroes 2 (7 new), 10 in Heroes 3 (4 new, and many conflations of previous spells), 4 in Heroes 4 (2 new), 4 in Heroes 5 (1 new), nothing in Heroes 6, and 8 in Heroes 7 (5 new)

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Jiriki9
Jiriki9


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
posted November 15, 2022 04:19 PM
Edited by Jiriki9 at 16:21, 15 Nov 2022.

What about spells changing the terrain?

Like
Spring Rain: Turns Earth to Grass, Desert&Badlands to Earth
Summer Sun: Turns Snow to Earth, Earth&Grass to Desert
Winter Chills: Turns most Terrain to Snow, but Volcanic to Badlands
Autumn Winds: Turns Desert& Volcanic to Badlands

For such to be of any importance, terrain would need more importance though, otherwise they'd mostly be indirect  movement spells.

Generally, I think categorizing the (potential) AM spells isn't a bad idea.
Asides scrying and movement, I think we already have summoning.
And what I wrote could be seen as "Altering", "Transforming" or something like that.

Other Transformation spells could include things like:
changing ressources on the map before they are collected.
Changing mines (would need to be Lvl 5 and costly, probably, else it'd be too powerful).
Changing other AM buildings within a category. (so mayhaps a treasure building can turn into another, but of the same strength)
Changing what AM buildings offer. (Like the skill given in a witch hut in H3, f.e., or the spell gained from a shrine.)
All these hold the potential to get incredibly op, though...maybe changes could not be done infintely?!

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted November 16, 2022 03:00 AM
Edited by MattII at 22:19, 16 Nov 2022.

So here's an idea I've come up with for my own (probably never to be published) proposal:
Level 1
* Summon Ship - Summons a boat to the nearest piece of water.
* View Air - See the position of resources/artifacts/heroes on the map.
* View Earth - See the position of mines/towns/terrain on the map.
Level 2
* Disguise - Gives false information to an enemy attempting to view your hero.
* Farsight - The hero can see further.
* False Force - Random creatures act like your army is larger thasn it is.
* Temptation - Increases the chances that neutral armies offer to join the hero, until the end of the day.
* Visions - Displays number of monsters in a wandering monster troop and whether or not the troop will offer to join the casting hero’s army.
Level 3
* Dispel - Negative spell effects are dispelled.
* Haunt - Deflags a mine and sets a number of ghosts to guard it.
* Pathfinding - Grants an army reduced movement penalty on the Adventure Map.
* Quagmire - Creates a 2x2 space that impedes (space takes three times the regular movement points to cross) the progress of enemy heroes.
* Summon Creatures - Summons creatures from nearest town.
Level 4
* Gods' Blessing - The hero has increased morale in the next combat.
* Gods' Curse - The selected enemy hero have reduced morale in the next combat.
* Mire - Causes The selected enemy her to move slower on Adventure Map during its next turn.
* Set Guards - Sets a number of guards on a friendly mine.
* Town Portal - Teleports your hero to the nearest friendly town. The town must be unoccupied.
* Water Walk - Allows your army to use part of its movement to walk across bodies of water. You must end your movement on dry land.
Level 5
* Bounty - Doubles the production rate of the target mine in the same area of control for a period.
* Dimension Door - Teleports the hero to an unoccupied, visible location.
* Fly - Allows your army to use part of its movement to fly over obstacles. You must land at the end of the turn.
* Set Ambush - Sets an ambush on a 1x1 tile, triggered by the next hero to walk over it.
* Time Turn - Selected one-use AM buildings are 'renewed'.

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