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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: Whats Wrong with Heroes IV Graphics?
Thread: Whats Wrong with Heroes IV Graphics? This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT»
Darion
Darion


Promising
Famous Hero
posted May 11, 2002 08:59 PM

Quote:
Every heroes that came out had different creature designs and Heroes IV creatures and objects are no different except in style and colour.

The Graphics keep getting better and better.


Not according to my book. Looking at the graphics in Heroes IV. professionally, they don't look so great. The proportions are not life-like (and don't need to be) but they are not aesthetically pleasing either. The textures look very simple as in five-second-mixing-in-photoshop. The models themselves are spectacular only when they are not organic: champion, crusader, ballista, is where they really shine. They kind of suck with organic creatures (elves, beholders, phoenix, nagas to name a few)

I wouldn't care so much about the work put into each creature if they came out looking very pleasing aesthetically on the battle map- BUT the creatures instead look very inanimate standing on the battle map. On Heroes II or III they looked ready to fight, relaxed and actually standing on the ground. Now in IV they look as if they were just plopped down like chess pieces. The colors they picked for the creatures are just not right at all, and with little regard for what is good looking- i.e. unicorn with a rainbow mane? Sprite that is supposed to be brightly colored is very bland etc.

The issue mainly I am mad about here is that the creatures follow no theme at all. Whereas in Heroes II you had most of the creatures adopting a very rustic look, and in Heroes III you had artistic themes for each town, I think the designers in IV went on a crack dream with these concepts:
Asian design on the black dragon head, with a European bottom, messed up concept on Medusa, step back on the particle design on flames for the efreet etc.
Modern design on the vampire, yet middle-ages design for all the other necropolis creatures. (note in Heroes II, they were NOT modern design.. the cloaks were middle ages)
Preserve is all over the place: and whose idea was it to put elementals in preserve, much less summoning?
The only town I really like is Haven. I could go on and on about the graphics and how I don't like them, BUT we will be constructive and move on.

The town graphics are the absolute worst I have ever seen... these in my opinion show the least effort and are even worse than Heroes I. With absolute no regard for composition and no planning at all, it looks as if the artists just went into Bryce, spent 5 minutes rendering a main landscape and sky, then spent the rest of the year importing the poor and unimaginatively designed structures into the towns. I understand it was hard to do with the variable terrain and the interchangeable structures, BUT it is very possible that they could have done it. If they couldn't have, leaving it in the original terrain like in Heroes III would have been absolutely fine.

To me, I feel that the concept was left up to several people, who clashed over the designs and did not work together to produce one final product.. rather several unifinished products slapped together. I can see hints of talent and originality (waspwort, champion, nightmare) but overall I am very displeased with the original concept and design, as well as the detail and creation of the creature models and their textures.
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Grythandril
Grythandril


Famous Hero
who is a Chaotic Wizard
posted May 11, 2002 09:21 PM

Strange!

I see a different outlook to the graphics.

So it all boils down to taste.

Ah well.
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Grythandril
Grythandril


Famous Hero
who is a Chaotic Wizard
posted May 11, 2002 09:56 PM

No drugs are involved.

Look closely at the detialed for the terrain eg trees and mountians as well as other structures.  They are very impressive.

Try creating a forest with all those trees on the editor and then look closely at it.

Truly amazing
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noogabooga
noogabooga


Hired Hero
Servant of Dark Magic
posted May 11, 2002 10:13 PM

blah... the graphics are good for a strategy game but I can't say the same about most of the adventure animations... I just switch them off
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r2
r2


Hired Hero
posted May 12, 2002 05:32 AM

Some ugly graphics

Quote:
I prefer this type of 2dish graphics than using a 3d concept, because if they did use a 3D approach it might cause problems with some graphic cards.


Yeah, but they used 3D graphics, didn't they? Just look at the Haven (without castle built and when attacking), and you see some ugly boxes been sticking out from the windows, pretending to be some kind of a light!? And what about that pool in the middle, isn't the 'water' a little bit messy too?
           3D0's 3D-artists, shame on you!!



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r2
r2


Hired Hero
posted May 12, 2002 05:35 AM

Some ugly graphics

Quote:
I prefer this type of 2dish graphics than using a 3d concept, because if they did use a 3D approach it might cause problems with some graphic cards.


Yeah, but they used 3D graphics, didn't they? Just look at the Haven (without castle been built and when attacking), and you see some ugly boxes been sticking out from the windows, pretending to be some kind of a light!? And what about that pool in the middle, isn't the 'water' a little bit messy too?
           3D0's 3D-artists, shame on you!!



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DonGio
DonGio


Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
posted May 12, 2002 09:33 AM

Quote:
I could go on and on about the graphics and how I don't like them, BUT we will be constructive and move on.

The town graphics are the absolute worst I have ever seen...


Love the smooth transition here, Darion. Cracked me up!

And I totally agree with you. What's this 'look closely' business?!?! If a game has great graphics, you don't have to look closely to find out! It just pleases you automatically!

And I hate that they have turned the forests into single trees. I don't know any forest where all the trees are lined up in rows and columns. And the forests were so beautiful in III too! As were the rest of the adventure screen. Now, it looks terribly lame, doesn't even remind me of the things it's supposed to portray.

And the town screen. If not directly ugly, they sure are unimaginative and generic. All the equivalent buildings in the same place for each town? Did anyone really have problems finding stuff in HOMMIII? I sure didn't. Uniqueness and "personality" was really present.

And again: Don't tell me the graphics are better just because now they're 3D and they have more pixels. In HOMMIII and II in particular, it seemed like a lot of effort and consideration had been put into the appearance of each creature. They had wanted to create a mood, a personality, for each creature. I loved this, but this is completely absent in HOMMIV. The creatures have no personal touch, no something to make them a bit special, they don't strike me as living creatures, just moving pieces on a board. I don't 'buy' them anymore.

Look well
DonGio
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Jenova
Jenova


Famous Hero
posted May 12, 2002 12:50 PM

The terrain does look a bit crappy, but if you take your time to appreciate the detail on the mountains, the shrines, the lava, the teaching schools, the colorful mushroom gardens, and other decorations.. Well at least I was impressed by them.

The units, I agree don't have enough personality (with some exceptions, such as the chaos sorcerors and order mages). The bone dragon looks great.
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Dispyre
Dispyre

Tavern Dweller
posted May 12, 2002 01:50 PM

I prefer 2D graphics instead of 3D or 3D pre-rendered graphics. Especially for a fantasy based game.
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Sir_Stiven
Sir_Stiven


Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
posted May 12, 2002 02:09 PM

they just dont stink, they stink bad!
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Xenophanes
Xenophanes


Promising
Famous Hero
Chief Consul to Queen Mutare
posted May 12, 2002 04:37 PM

Like I said, different lead designer, different outcome...

Somehow, though, I don't think the graphics are as bad as some of you are making them out to be. Sure, compared to some awful shoot-'em-up game, maybe, but compared to other turn based strategy games--I have no idea what your problem is, apart from some jerky animations, a slight amount of creatures that completely missed the target, and a few messups in composition.
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Grythandril
Grythandril


Famous Hero
who is a Chaotic Wizard
posted May 12, 2002 06:57 PM

The graphics are much more detailed than Heroes I, II and III ever was.

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Darion
Darion


Promising
Famous Hero
posted May 12, 2002 08:04 PM
Edited By: Darion on 12 May 2002

Again, wrong. The level of detail is far lacking in Heroes IV than it was in Heroes III. For my example, I will use the Sprite. I understand that some creatures may be more "detailed" in a sense, but this is what I think using one example. Here is the Heroes IV sprite:


And here is the Heroes III sprite


Note the lack of detail in IV's version. With the wings on the 4 version, they look very unrealistic (note, only two) and have very simple, sloppy looking textures (they did not even have a good combination of colors in my opinion) In the 3 version, the butterfly wings look very classy and beautiful- they don't look like the paintwater of an artist, but are carefully drawn out and have a very nice color scheme.
In 4's costume, it is sadly lacking. Only two colors are used: green, and sickly green. The construction of the costume is also sadly lacking- if you look carefully at the left thigh, you can see the costume cutting and clipping into the leg. The dress is simply a modified bikini halter top- they didn't even bother to do something creative with the straps... in 3's costume, it is a little bit simple for my tastes, but they did put in a headdress of flowers, and a garter/belt of flowers that adds a nice flowery touch. The belt alone shows more detail than the whole costume of the 4 version.
In 4's hair, it is absolutely horrible and shows how lazy the artists were. They just took a polygon, applied a texture and contour to it, and mashed it into the shape of the head.. there is not even a real hairstyle here. In 3's hair, it is not too much better, but at least they did well for the composition: They applied a texture, but managed to sculpt the main polygon into a tangible shape instead of a mass of little polygons like in 4.
In terms of 4's actual body, it is also showing a surprising lack of detail and attractiveness. Whereas the 3 version was hot the 4 is really really really not. The forehead has been mashed flat, and the face been pulled so it no longer retains any feminity, the hips and thighs have made her look dumpy, her breasts are about 3 times too big to fit on her body, and she does not look very fairyish. In the 3 version, they also used unrealistic proportions, but it was very photogenic.

The attractiveness for IV is... less than I! Yes, I say less because in HommI, the sprites were cute, though they were wearing a banana-coloroed bikini... but it looked good! Heroes IV makes me wanna barf. Heroes II is also far superior to IV in attractiveness and detail.

So you see: there we have it. Again, the detail is amazing in the inorganic haven units, but is lacking elsewhere. I would also like to add in at this point, that the magic effects also suck. For instance, the Titan's lightning bolt is now a little white thingie that wiggles its way across the field... definitely not the huge thunderclap I was used to. It's worse than Heroes II. Same goes for mage spells and such.

Lastly, I would like to complain about the sieges. As jenova said, the water looks like paint- a simple texture, and it does not even look real because it is a straight line- it looks like a ditch rather than a real moat. The castles themselves are pitiful... take a look at today's picture on Celestial Heavens. The really ugly looking quicksand just goes to show you that this product is extremely unfinished, unpolished, undetailed, and ugly, and does not deserve the worshipful praise it is getting because it is a step BACK rather than a step forward. I am angry at NWC simply because they have done better in the past, and I know what they can do... Homm 3 took my breath away, and I would expect the same for IV.
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DElyMyth
DElyMyth

Tavern Dweller
posted May 12, 2002 08:20 PM

About graphics...

Personally, I don't look so much at the graphics in a game.
My machine is a poor laptop and has some problems with 3d rendering (I see some strange things in Dungeon Siege, and it slows down a lot during combats...)
This is the main reason why I loved HoMM3, on my machine I had no problems running it
Now I have to be careful, NO windowed game, only full-screen mode.
I don't know if it's because of the graphics, but I'd prefer good 2d graphics than "medium" 3d ones, and my laptop agrees
I don't see that much need of 3d graphics in HoMM.

Btw, nagas were better in 3 and satyrs walk in a very funny way (and the same is when they die...)

[And I'm complaining mainly because I had to buy the game twice because of the patch]
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Gerdash
Gerdash


Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
posted May 12, 2002 08:48 PM
Edited By: Gerdash on 12 May 2002

jenova:
Quote:
The units, I agree don't have enough personality (with some exceptions, such as the chaos sorcerors and order mages). The bone dragon looks great.


hmm.. could anyone tell if they have corrected the position of forelegs of the bone dragon in the final game?

darion:
Quote:
The town graphics are the absolute worst I have ever seen...
etc.. considering the exceptions you pointed out in the unit graphics, are you saying that you don't like preserve town screen? i would be surprised..

btw about the female 3d model: what disturbs me most is the place where the arm connects to the body. there is a muscle omitted there, but it would make the model look a lot more natural if it was included. on the other hand, it's a common problem almost everywhere. in games with 3d models, i mean.

========
personally, i don't mind the homm4 sprite, especially if it was in a bit different context.
if you take the sprite and the satyr and design other creatures to suit their style, maybe it can be said that the design is primitive, but i don't think it can be said that there's no theme or style.
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Jenova
Jenova


Famous Hero
posted May 13, 2002 07:34 AM

Doh! The HOMM3 sprite pic didn't show up (404 error).. Could you post another URL to it?

And you should also keep in mind that the game's units aren't shown up close so you don't see anywhere near the level of detail that you compare them with.. From a distance, they're just small pixies with wings. You can't really compare them that extensively.
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DonGio
DonGio


Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
posted May 13, 2002 12:22 PM

Quote:
The graphics are much more detailed than Heroes I, II and III ever was.



Listen: It's not the amount of detail, the amount of pixels or how large each pic is. IT'S ONLY ABOUT IF IT LOOKS GOOD!

AND IT SURE AS **** DOESN'T!!!!
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Xenophanes
Xenophanes


Promising
Famous Hero
Chief Consul to Queen Mutare
posted May 13, 2002 04:30 PM

I agree with Don Gio that people are overanalyzing. However, the Sprite, though not as good as it could be, is certaily not horrible. There is not, in fact, any original, mythological source that says that sprites are supposed to look beautiful. In some texts, it even refers to them as evil, ugly creatures of darkness, etc. etc.

Back to harping on the Designers, while JVC probably would have(and will, in Heroes V) wanted to make the Sprites more like they were in Heroes III, Gus Smedtad must have had a different idea.
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Grythandril
Grythandril


Famous Hero
who is a Chaotic Wizard
posted May 13, 2002 08:14 PM

Wrong again on all sides.

The sprite in Heroes iv look different from heroes III because the heroes III is a flat version where as the Heeroes IV sprite has a 3dish look about it.  

And a 3dish look will not have as much detailed as flat 2d look.

The detail and the look of the graphics are far more rounded than the flatness of heroes III.

If Heroes IV had the flat look for the combat then the look, design and detail would have been far more impressive in the 2D aspect.

But this game has a 3D look so the emphasis should be more 3D.  This would again be used in the different angles for the animation.

I have no complaints about the new graphics.
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Darion
Darion


Promising
Famous Hero
posted May 13, 2002 10:18 PM

Quote:
Wrong again on all sides.

The sprite in Heroes iv look different from heroes III because the heroes III is a flat version where as the Heeroes IV sprite has a 3dish look about it.  

And a 3dish look will not have as much detailed as flat 2d look.

The detail and the look of the graphics are far more rounded than the flatness of heroes III.

If Heroes IV had the flat look for the combat then the look, design and detail would have been far more impressive in the 2D aspect.

But this game has a 3D look so the emphasis should be more 3D.  This would again be used in the different angles for the animation.

I have no complaints about the new graphics.


Still doesn't account for lack of detail, poor choice of colors, or bad anatomy. 3d, schmeedee However I guess I was wrong to compare the two pictures since they are different sizes.
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