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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Amish COVID -- Full Measure
Thread: Amish COVID -- Full Measure This thread is 16 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 · «PREV / NEXT»
JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 27, 2022 07:10 PM

antipaladin said:
JollyJoker said:




And then there are those who CANNOT be vaccinated (for health reasons - because they have a condition that makes it impossible). Every person not vaccinated increases THEIR risk.

Then there are reasons in connection with immunology and the workings of virusses and their mutations that makes a high basic protection within a population desirable.





I disagree.
because like I said, I had an allergic reaction to the vaccination. everyone knew I was going to have, since I stated I'm allergic to ethylenediamine. though the vaccine have ethylene glycol and it is slightly different substance none the less, a reaction would be likely, so I had to get the ministry of health permission to do so.
I didn't want it because i wanted it, but because many places i had work in closed they're gates infront of me without a "green passport" a certificate that I had 2 shots.
The ministry of health couldn't answer me, since they are not doctors, shockingly they are clerks, and they sent me to my doctor again. he sent me to an immunologist professor who stated it was preferable for me to suffer a reaction rather then get covid, so i got the first shot, and I had a mild reaction and i was hospitalized for one day for it.
the second shot that i got 1 month later , the reaction was even more violent, and life threatening, and it took me 3 days to recover from it.

point is if i can avoid doing the booster jab, ill probably will.
I stand with my previous statement that its personal issue and shouldn't be enforced.


I don't see the disagreement - with what do you disagree and why? I just said there are good reasons for mandatory vaccinations, and, as I said, people who can be expected to have strong adverse reactions wouldn't be forced anyway - you were not forced either.
You can always sue or threaten to sue in case there is reason to expect trouble.

That said and

@Ohfor

They made it pretty clear in Germany that it's all about (more or less) the 3 million people who are 60 and above. We might get a mandatory vaccination for people above 55 or something like that, which I'd think would be fine. If 30% of those 3 million end up in hospital we have a problem (long before that, actually).
Younger people? Not so much, especially with a new covid med being introduced today.

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antipaladin
antipaladin


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of Ooohs and Aaahs
posted January 27, 2022 10:29 PM

you shouldn't legally force vaccinations.
you should be 100% truthful to whatever facts you have regarding the cons and pros of having it, and let the person do the choice.
you can't force parents to vaccinate baby's either, even if it 98% efficient.  
my kids are vaccinated, but because I choose that way.
We are grown ups.
If I will let or not let anyone entry based on that choice, the discriminations shouldn't end there. we can also do the same regarding skin color , religion, music taste and if they wear button shirts with short sleeves (those should be banned )
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted January 27, 2022 10:44 PM

Of course you should.

And its been done for a long time and with great success.

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antipaladin
antipaladin


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of Ooohs and Aaahs
posted January 27, 2022 10:55 PM

from israel ministery of health
Quote:
Routine vaccines provided for babies and children

The vaccines currently provided for babies and children at Tipat Halav family care centers as part of the routine vaccination program are:

Vaccine against Diphtheria-Tetanus-Whooping cough + Haemophilus influenzae type B + Polio [DTaP-Hib-IPV] (Hebrew)
Vaccine against Measles-Mumps-Rubella (German measles) + Varicella (chicken pox) [MMRV]

Vaccine against pneumococcus bacteria [PCV]

Vaccine against Hepatitis B

Vaccine against Hepatitis A

Vaccine against Rotavirus


The vaccines given at school are:

In 1st grade: Vaccine against Measles-Mumps-Rubella (German measles) - Varicella (chicken pox) [MMRV]
In 2nd grade: Vaccine against Diphtheria-Tetanus-Whooping cough + Polio [Tdap-IPV]
In 3rd grade: Vaccine against influenza
In 4th grade: Vaccine against influenza
In 8th grade: Vaccine against Diphtheria-Tetanus-Whooping cough [Tdap]
In 8th grade: Vaccine against Human Papilloma Virus [HPV]
Influenza vaccine
The Ministry of Health recommends vaccinating the entire population against Influenza annually, starting six months of age. The vaccination is administer at the MHO and in the 2nd and 3rd grade at school.

Vaccination Guidelines
The vaccination guidelines of the Epidemiology Division is intended to aid in the implementation of the vaccination plan in Israel, and serves as a guide regarding the practicalities of vaccination, aimed at the medical staff.
*Vaccination is recommended once a year before influenza season, starting at six months of age.
All sectors of the population can be vaccinated at HMO's (Kupot Cholim), 2nd, 3rd and 4th graders are vaccinated at
school.
vaccines provided for babies and children at Tipat Halav (family health centers)
and in schools from birth until 8th grade.





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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted January 28, 2022 07:43 AM

No, it's 3 million UNVACCINATED people over 60 years (at this point).

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fred79
fred79


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posted January 28, 2022 11:41 AM

JollyJoker said:
No, it's 3 million UNVACCINATED people over 60 years (at this point).


that's 3 million smart germans. they were probably told by their parents to beware the actions of certain people, and to be on the lookout for behaviors that give them away; making them easier to identify. you know, to avoid those kinds of people, and anything they promote.

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antipaladin
antipaladin


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of Ooohs and Aaahs
posted January 28, 2022 01:25 PM
Edited by antipaladin at 13:27, 28 Jan 2022.

OhforfSake said:



I'm actually quite surprised only about 3% of the 100 million German population is 60+ years old. So does that mean people born in Germany 60+ years ago only had 3% chance to reach their current age, if the population total has been unchanged since then?

you forgot what state Germany was 60 years ago...
post WW2. divided, indebted and much under foreign influences.
many left it for numerous reasons, others ware killed.


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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted January 28, 2022 01:44 PM

Umm, WHAT?

It gets a bit surreal now.

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Pol
Pol


Known Hero
.^.
posted January 28, 2022 04:49 PM

JollyJoker said:
It's not that simple, though.

I don't have any problem with people making bad/wrong decisions for themselves, but in many cases a bad decision of one individual has consequences for others as well.
In this case, it's pretty obvious that vaccines are reducing the number of serious cases among vaccinated by a hefty percentage.
To illustrate the point that is coming, keep the following in mind: Land mines are designed not to be deadly, but instead to maim. Why, because an advancing army has a lot more problems with a severely wounded soldier than with a dead one.
The same is true here. The less people there are who are vaccinated, the more will go to the hospital and take up hospital beds that are needed by those with regular problems. If enough people decide, no, thanks, it may get ugly.

And then there are those who CANNOT be vaccinated (for health reasons - because they have a condition that makes it impossible). Every person not vaccinated increases THEIR risk.

Then there are reasons in connection with immunology and the workings of virusses and their mutations that makes a high basic protection within a population desirable.

And then think about the situation for friends and relatives. Say, your 70 year old dad or granddad has diabetes - but doesn't want to be vaccinated because he's afraid. So what do you do now? Refuse to visit, because you don't want to risk infecting him? Visit him and risk infecting him, so he might die, saying, his choice?

It's not that simple.


Wow I like like you are thoroughtful. But, it's actually even more complicated.

"I don't have any problem with people making bad/wrong decisions for themselves, but in many cases a bad decision of one individual has consequences for others as well."

Unfortunatelly this is more common, than you would though. Only in case of COVID you stay "informed" and in others you are not. So you are left with accepting them or revolt later. But in the given moment you can't change them. Such is a life, honestly.

Informed is in parenthesis. Because, as of COVID, qualified people what can say the most about it are certainly not the same doing decisions, neither speaking. So, information to you are already coming quite simplified.

This is hard to judge, ideally the outcome is still perfectly valid. But you can't verify it. That's also normal.


As for your last example, it's easy. As the only right reply lies in mere combinatorics and won't help you a bit without additional information, which you don't have.

So, that's all mostly a rhetorical excercise. As you can get different solution for different people. And you can't just say, that if solution X would be accepted, all would be saved.


Let me to point out something else. People like action, decision, clear outlines. But it's mostly lazy human brain who needs them and it's in direct contrary to how it mostly works in nature. You have many solutions, and the winner in the given time and place might be an easy looser anywhere else.

Now Omicron is not filling up the hospitals (at least not here), ppl who were severely ill with Delta are still mostly here slowly recovering. And if this variant will prove to have additional mutations, current vaccine effectivness could come near to useless.

That to say, there are not only people with broken immunity, there are also people with very good immunity and they have high resistance to COVID naturally. As probably they met with similar Corona virus before. So you should calculate that in, but how if you don't know how many or even who they are? Nobody knows. Nobody cared and thus nobody can draw any numbers from here.


It's like a puzzle, even last missing piece can prove to be the crucial one. And you just don't know, until you set your eyes there.

Furthermore in past that was Delta, now it's Omicron. Different case. Don't fight last wars. Winning them may cause you to loose the current ones.

As of COVID, we are likely to see lot of people, having long time troubles (long post covid syndrome) after they undergo this illness. Like in years. And many of them even haven't any chance to take up vaccine, as it become availabe too late.

And.. so on. We could continue almost to eternity, pilling arguments to every side.

Back to start.

So does this vaccine reduce severe cases in hefty numbers for Omicron? No. Even if it did that for previous mutations. Because Omicron doesn't cause hefty numbers of severe cases. It still helpfull though, just not "in hefty".

Does this vaccine reduce possibility of long convid? Not enough data now. But myself I would assume, that when rightly dosed and absorbed, that yes.

Does this vaccine have any side-effects? Sure, it does. However there were worse in past, even if they were for quite different illness.

Is this vaccine suitable for everyone? No and it never meant to be. But at the current level no one can tell you for sure. It can be only recommended or not. Immunity is still a vastly unexplored land. Similarly as COVID vaccines till now, nobody really invested in.

Hopefully this will change and we could beat covid, flu, cancer and such soon. And maybe even live with some sense.


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Gandalf196
Gandalf196


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Supreme Hero
posted February 19, 2022 03:10 PM


____________

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gnomes2169
gnomes2169


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Duke of the Glade
posted February 19, 2022 04:40 PM
Edited by gnomes2169 at 16:42, 19 Feb 2022.

Translation: "Sadly, a massive number of people chose to take a risk and got sick with a highly infectious and volatile virus rather than getting protection from a vaccination."

The Gates foundation did make it functionally impossible for a number of countries to get their hands on the vaccine formula, production and supplies, so they're hardly innocent and their hands are not clean when it comes to the pandemic... but Bill here isn't bemoaning some kind of foiled plot or lost revenue. He's saying it's a shame that people are choosing to get sick with a serious virus rather than taking a proven vaccine.
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Titanfall2020
Titanfall2020


Known Hero
posted February 20, 2022 12:58 AM
Edited by Titanfall2020 at 01:00, 20 Feb 2022.

gnomes2169 said:
Translation: "Sadly, a massive number of people chose to take a risk and got sick with a highly infectious and volatile virus rather than getting protection from a vaccination."



Did you ever, you know, examine the volumes of study and research done by world renown doctors detailing the ineffectiveness of the vaccines, and the corruption with which the entire industry has been choked by regarding treatment?

Peter McCullough, for example; the most published cardiologist in America. Or a leading immunologist of Israel Ehud Qimron? Or looking into the claims of the 100's of 1000's of doctors and nurses worldwide who've sacrificed their careers to denounce the vaccine mandates/covid protocols? Many countries have all but denounced these vaccines as worthless now.

My take is the vaccine is useful for the severely obese or those with comorbidities, but the risk of side effects for healthy individuals outweighs the potential benefit of the vaccines in combatting a virus with a 99.85% survival rate. (Even higher, as omicron is universally considered less deadly)

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artu
artu


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Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted February 20, 2022 10:15 AM
Edited by artu at 10:17, 20 Feb 2022.

Just checked the first name and you’re spreading disinformation taken out of context as usual. And the thing is, I was fairly sure it would turn out so. Didnt bother with the rest:

In April 2020, McCullough led a study of the medication hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for COVID-19 for the Baylor Scott & White Medical Center. McCullough told The Wall Street Journal that the urgency of the public health crisis justified compromises on best practices in medical research.[28][29] In July, after major studies found hydroxychloroquine was ineffective against COVID-19 and the Food and Drug Administration revoked its emergency use authorization (EUA), McCullough supported a second EUA.[23]

McCullough, Harvey Risch of the Yale School of Public Health, and co-authors published an observational study proposing an early outpatient treatment regimen for COVID-19 in August 2020 in the American Journal of Medicine.[30] Based on previous evidence, the article made recommendations for treating ambulatory COVID-19 patients, but presented no new evidence. The article was shared on social media, mainly by groups which had previously published COVID-19 misinformation, in posts falsely interpreting the publication as an endorsement of hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for COVID-19.[31][32][33] The Ministry of Health of Brazil endorsed the article on its website, contributing to a severe COVID-19 misinformation problem in Brazil.[31][34][35] The article was criticized in letters to the editors;[36][37][38][39][40] the editors responded that the article included some "hopeful speculations...What seemed reasonable last summer based on laboratory experiments has subsequently been shown to be untrue."[32][35]

McCullough and Risch were two of three witnesses called by committee chair Senator Ron Johnson to testify before a United States Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs hearing on COVID-19 treatments held in November 2020. McCullough testified in support of social distancing, vaccination, and treatments, including hydroxychloroquine. Ashish Jha, dean of the Brown University School of Public Health, called to testify by the ranking member, said the "clear consensus in the medical and scientific community, based on overwhelming evidence" is that hydroxychloroquine is ineffective as a treatment for COVID-19. McCullough said Jha was promoting misinformation and Jha's opposition to the drug was "reckless and dangerous for the nation."[24][41][42][43] Jha responded on The New York Times opinion page, "By elevating witnesses who sound smart but endorse unfounded therapies, we risk jeopardizing a century's work of medical progress."

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Titanfall2020
Titanfall2020


Known Hero
posted February 20, 2022 04:43 PM

I'd thank you for quoting an opinion by another doctor, but we all already knew where the npcs would stand. Anyways, he's continued his research for two more years, and learned and spoken about a lot.

And naturally, you didn't look into the claims of the Israeli immunologist who recently put to death the notion of the fascistic corporate/government response to this cold bug.


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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted February 20, 2022 09:56 PM

The "letter" is bullcrap. The "Barrington Declaration"? "60.000 scientists?"
Lol. Fake news.

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Titanfall2020
Titanfall2020


Known Hero
posted February 21, 2022 06:38 AM
Edited by Titanfall2020 at 06:52, 21 Feb 2022.

JollyJoker said:
The "letter" is bullcrap. The "Barrington Declaration"? "60.000 scientists?"
Lol. Fake news.


You want to talk fake news? These are some of the hoaxes spread by the corporate media and politicians that useful idiots for totalitarianism believed with rabidity

- The virus isn't airborne
- The virus doesn't spread via human to human contact
- Everyone should go hug in the streets! We're not afraid of a novel pathogen! (Feb/March 2020) "Come on down to Chinatown" - Nancy Pelosi
- Shutting travel to China (Wuhan Institute of Virology) to stop the spread was racist
- The virus came from bat soup. And thinking that it leaked from a lab was racist.
- Masks don't work. Likely to cause more harm; only to flip 2 weeks later to make them mandatory and those who don't want to wear them social pariahs and liable for beatdowns. You lunatics..
- Lockdowns work. It will only be 2 weeks to slow the spread
- The hospitals are overwhelmed. (Meanwhile a hundred videos went viral of empty hospitals and tik tok nurses doing choreography)
- Trump supporters protesting to go back to work are sUpEr SpReAdErS!
- BLM/Antifa protesters and terrorists weren't super spreaders, in fact they may have even slowed the spread. - New York Times
- Trump told people to drink fish tank cleaner and bleach
- Just another 1 month. The lockdowns are how we get our freedom back
- Trumps rushing the vaccine! We'll NEVER take a vaccine he pushes out!!1
- The vaccines are safe and effective. If you take them you will not catch the virus
- If you get the vaccines, you may catch the virus, but you will not spread it
- If you get the vaccines, you may catch the virus, you may spread the virus, but you will not be hospitalized
- If you get the vaccines, you may catch the virus, you may spread the virus, you may be hospitalized, but you will not die from covid.
- If you get the vaccines, you may catch the virus, you may spread the virus, you may be hospitalized, you may die of covid; but your symptoms will be much less than the unvaccinated.
- The unvaccinated are all dumb, science denying, racist, Trump supporters. (Plot twist: The least vaccinated demographic is African Americans)
- The unvaccinated should be locked in their homes, taxed, and even refused medical service. (Not fake news, just the language of genocide)
- Okay, the virus may have come from the Wuhan Institute of Virology, but we didn't say it because Trump said it - Washington Post

Talk about fake news. Queue the rabid useful idiots pretending they didn't get blown about like a ship lost at sea by most of the hoaxes given by the bought and paid for media.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted February 21, 2022 08:33 AM

More bull.
Get a life.

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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
posted February 21, 2022 12:27 PM

Titanfall2020 said:


You want to talk fake news? These are some of the hoaxes spread by the corporate media and politicians that useful idiots for totalitarianism believed with rabidity

- The virus isn't airborne
- The virus doesn't spread via human to human contact
- Everyone should go hug in the streets! We're not afraid of a novel pathogen! (Feb/March 2020) "Come on down to Chinatown" - Nancy Pelosi
- Shutting travel to China (Wuhan Institute of Virology) to stop the spread was racist
- The virus came from bat soup. And thinking that it leaked from a lab was racist.
- Masks don't work. Likely to cause more harm; only to flip 2 weeks later to make them mandatory and those who don't want to wear them social pariahs and liable for beatdowns. You lunatics..
- Lockdowns work. It will only be 2 weeks to slow the spread
- The hospitals are overwhelmed. (Meanwhile a hundred videos went viral of empty hospitals and tik tok nurses doing choreography)
- Trump supporters protesting to go back to work are sUpEr SpReAdErS!
- BLM/Antifa protesters and terrorists weren't super spreaders, in fact they may have even slowed the spread. - New York Times
- Trump told people to drink fish tank cleaner and bleach
- Just another 1 month. The lockdowns are how we get our freedom back
- Trumps rushing the vaccine! We'll NEVER take a vaccine he pushes out!!1
- The vaccines are safe and effective. If you take them you will not catch the virus
- If you get the vaccines, you may catch the virus, but you will not spread it
- If you get the vaccines, you may catch the virus, you may spread the virus, but you will not be hospitalized
- If you get the vaccines, you may catch the virus, you may spread the virus, you may be hospitalized, but you will not die from covid.
- If you get the vaccines, you may catch the virus, you may spread the virus, you may be hospitalized, you may die of covid; but your symptoms will be much less than the unvaccinated.
- The unvaccinated are all dumb, science denying, racist, Trump supporters. (Plot twist: The least vaccinated demographic is African Americans)
- The unvaccinated should be locked in their homes, taxed, and even refused medical service. (Not fake news, just the language of genocide)
- Okay, the virus may have come from the Wuhan Institute of Virology, but we didn't say it because Trump said it - Washington Post



Exactly. And after two years of this, some still expect people to trust what the politicians and media say on the matter? That is hilarious.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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Undefeatable Hero
posted February 21, 2022 01:26 PM

No. Instead they trust idiotic nonsense spread over the internet and believe in religion. And Trump. And that's not hilarious, but really sad.

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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
posted February 21, 2022 01:32 PM

You seem to have developed an obsession over Donald Trump. You do know he's been out of office for a while, right? And his successor is doing great, and he's so much more popular. Ah-huh.
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