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| Thread: The "World religions" |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
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JollyJoker
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posted February 12, 2022 09:46 PM |
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The "World religions"
are just man-made ideologies to justify men oppressing women, an ideology that allowed half of humanity to oppress the other half. They are a disgrace. And their tenants are unconstitutional, at least in the 1st world.
We need to expose them for what they really are.
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Salamandre
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Wog refugee
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posted February 12, 2022 10:23 PM |
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China is massively irreligious (7%), a perfect heaven for women and individual freedom overall, isn't it?
Looks like Gandalf hacked JJ's account, that's the level.
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CountBezuhoff
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Nihil sub sole novum
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posted February 12, 2022 10:33 PM |
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Could you expand on what exactly you mean? You claim that all religions are instruments of the patriarchy, or? If that's what you mean, then I'd have to disagree. Religion is a function of culture and society, but a function that behaves rather weirdly in time. Once it establishes itself as an institution it dislikes change and seeks to avoid it(as most institutions do). Society was, and still is, patriarchal. Therefore most religions themselves(though I write mostly in view of Christianity) are patriarchal. Patriarchal oppression is only one of the many oppressions through which the institution of religion denies change. I definitely do not disagree with you on the point that sexism is a large part of religion, but there is much more to religion than just that. Sexism is both a means, and a goal (one of religion's goals is to establish order in human life, in most religions that order happens to be patriarchal, among other, not in the slightest less important things) but it definetely isn't the sole purpose and method of religion.
What I mean by all that is that I think your view is quite extreme, but not unvalid, despite not taking into account any nuance. There's a lot more to religion than just (sexist) oppression. Overlooking all of that just doesn't do it justice.
The Count
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JollyJoker
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posted February 12, 2022 11:09 PM |
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See, that's the problem. "We are doing them injustice." But there ISN'T more to WORLD religion (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam).
Think clearly. An ideology that's oppressing half of the human population can't be redeemed. It just has to go.
Start with the basics. God is male. Screw that.
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CountBezuhoff
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Nihil sub sole novum
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posted February 13, 2022 12:50 AM |
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JollyJoker said:
See, that's the problem. "We are doing them injustice." But there ISN'T more to WORLD religion (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam).
Think clearly. An ideology that's oppressing half of the human population can't be redeemed. It just has to go.
Start with the basics. God is male. Screw that.
That's why, in my opinion, states should be secular and freedom of thought and religion should be guaranteed. And people should employ more critical thinking. As I see it, a lot of religious institutions are pretty rotten or have a lot of rotten people within them. But I don't think religious institutions entirely by themselves constitute religion. There is a lot more to religion - spiritually, philosophically, culturally, historically.
The Count
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JollyJoker
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posted February 13, 2022 11:13 AM |
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But that's exactly the problem - it's not really possible. I mean, if people really believe in something, if "religion" isn't just a lip service, then it becomes a problem. Example: abortion. Example: homosexuality. If you BELIEVE all this god nonsense, then you also believe that this is deeply wrong. If you believe that women are inferior, because, well, you know why, then laws going against that belief will be accepted only grudgingly - if at all.
Because, if you look at it from a non-religious perspective, a lot of the things that these religions teach, are simply against (secular) constitutional rights. They are UNconstitutional.
Now, if people are touting unconstitutional POLITICAL ideas (say, undemocratic left or right wing ideas) you cannot legally pursue them. However, if you claim there is a higher being that wants women to obey men you can? You allow that to be taught?
Sure, if you look at it with an enlightened eye, yup, these religions are mirroring a social situation in the time building to the point when they developed - but they have a lot of STAYING POWER for all the known and obviously all the wrong reasons. God DEMANDS obedience. And if you believe that and live in a society that's constantly disobeying Him as a whole, there is a problem.
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted February 13, 2022 04:37 PM |
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Edited by Baronus at 16:37, 13 Feb 2022.
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Baronus
Hahaha! You never was in Poland its good seing. Mary land.
In Poland woman opression is non known.
I donot negate woman opression in false religions. Its good known. But in true Church all is right.
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Ghost
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Therefore I am
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posted February 13, 2022 04:50 PM |
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What about Yoni goddess Shiva Shakti? Yes pussy matter!  Their god name is Jehovah, religion oriental is Tantra. Of course god Lingam too penis matter in Hindu. Those are Holy.
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JollyJoker
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posted February 13, 2022 05:03 PM |
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Baronus said:
In Poland woman opression is non known.
Lol.
No abortion (only in case of incest, rape and life-threatening pregnancy).
Poland ranks 24th within the EU in gender equality, which is obviously pretty bad.
That Poland has a strong Catholic Church is of course purely coincidental.
@ Ghost
This is about the so-called world religions.
What they have in common is that there is one god, He is male - and he sucks.
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Geny
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted February 13, 2022 05:44 PM |
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I happen to know religious people who respect women, who have no problem with homosexuals and who generally understand that society has evolved and religion should evolve with it. So it is possible. It's just not being done on a large scale. And that does indeed suck.
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artu
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posted February 13, 2022 05:46 PM |
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Why do you only consider the Abrahamic tradition as world religions? There are more than a billion hindus, around 500 million Buddhists and yet only 15 million jews. And somehow judaism is a world religion and hinduism isnt?
I basically agree with the Count on how religions are shaped by the culture they are born in. Problem is, they are more resistant to change than other aspects of cultrue since dogma and tradition is their bloodline.
You can not “let them go” by force unless you go full totalitarian but you can stop state support of religion, make education secular, which is pretty much what modern states do anyway.
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JollyJoker
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posted February 13, 2022 06:14 PM |
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Hinduism has no prophets, no binding joly book and no ecclesiarchy. You can also have as many gods as you want, zero to, well, many.
I don't know much about Buddhism. My bad.
But the Dalai Lama IS a man, so...
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Gandalf196
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posted February 13, 2022 06:21 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
are just man-made ideologies to justify men oppressing women, an ideology that allowed half of humanity to oppress the other half. They are a disgrace. And their tenants are unconstitutional, at least in the 1st world.
We need to expose them for what they really are.
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JollyJoker
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posted February 13, 2022 07:32 PM |
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So that's your alternatives? You believe either your polemically phrased preliminary conclusions from incomplete information available or in religions that oppress half the population and come with a god that sucks and commands total obedience?
Really?
EDIT:
artu said:
You can not “let them go” by force unless you go full totalitarian but you can stop state support of religion, make education secular, which is pretty much what modern states do anyway.
Education isn't secular, though.
There are private schools that are confessional.
Education is done by parents and relatives as well.
Religion is taught in public schools as well.
Religious organisations have a number of legal advantages.
The list is endless.
Secular isn't actually really secular.
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artu
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posted February 13, 2022 08:33 PM |
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Things you listed dont exclude Hinduism from being a world religion, it just makes it a world religion that doesnt fit your monotheistic definition.
I agree that the world should be more secular, but you can only interfere with private schools if what they teach is hate speech..
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JollyJoker
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posted February 13, 2022 08:44 PM |
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Yeah, wrong thread title. 
Anyway, I'm not sure the hate speech thing is true. You can obviously forbid teachings in contradiction to the basic human rights. Just as an example.
Religion (still) just has special rights. You could start by changing that. But then - how many of those who have an influence are biassed?
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artu
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 13, 2022 09:24 PM |
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Edited by artu at 21:29, 13 Feb 2022.
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Well, patriarchal tendencies are not exclusively Abrahamic, Indians used to burn brides with their husbands’ body. (And as can be expected in most agricultural societies, the brides were sometimes much younger than the husband.) So rather than the title, your reply to Ghost was wrong. 
I think rather then banning religion (except when its radicalized), one should just focus on educating people properly. Religions already lost their intellectual power, nobody in their right mind buys their stories anymore, at least not literally. The reason they dont go extinct is because they are cultural identities people stick to, not intellectual explanations.
So trying to force people out of it will backfire. In theory, even the notion that non-believers deserve to burn in hell in endless torment can be seen as hate speech. But nobody sane actually acts on that anymore, they dont treat non-believers as hellish creatures, at least in developed countries anyway. I’m guessing small towns are relatively worse everywhere.
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JollyJoker
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posted February 13, 2022 10:26 PM |
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I don't want to BAN religion - that's not it.
I just think it's high time to remove PRIVILEGES. Because the reality isn't so peachy as you say.
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artu
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posted February 14, 2022 01:58 AM |
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What exactly are those priviliges regarding Europe? I’m not saying everything is peachy, I’m saying with individual freedoms, there is a limit to what you can do.
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JollyJoker
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posted February 14, 2022 08:33 AM |
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They are of course different from country to country and from religion to religion.
I mean, it may surprise you that all Scandinavian countries - which we would consider pretty enlightened - have state churches (yup, check it up), constitutionally grounded, with the exception of Sweden who had one as well, but abolished it in 2000.
In Germany people who are member of a catholic or protestant church (which you are as a child if your parents are), THE STATE is deducting an automatic tax it gives to the churches, which is 10% of your income tax IN ADDITION to your regular tax. In Germany, and that knows basically no one, the state pays both of these churches currently half a billion each year (20 billion all in all until now) since Napoleonic times for compensation of lands reassigned, although each constitution since 100 years said to stop this. We still do.
And do you really need me to tell you the special place religion and churches have? They are not investigated as they should, when there is something wrong; they get all kinds of special financial benefits and rights; they are protected legally; they can do unconstitutional things claiming "reasons of belief" and so on and so forth. You, living in Turkey, should know this pretty well. And Turkey isn't that bad compared with what else is around on your neighborhood.
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