|
| Thread: Custom game tier List for Heroes 5 TotE | |
|
Stintet
Tavern Dweller
|
posted March 07, 2022 02:41 PM |
|
Edited by Stintet at 21:00, 15 Mar 2022.
|
Custom Multiplayer game tier List for Heroes 5 TotE
I created a category for HoMM5 custom game heroes on tiermaker.com.
Tiermaker link: https://tiermaker.com/create/heroes-of-might-and-magic-5-heroes-all-factions-1567593
To show what it can look like, here is my list. Comments regarding my placement of heroes would be greatly appreciated! I am currently thinking about making a video discussing each placement. 
Keep in mind, my list is strictly meant to discuss how good they are as starting+main army heroes.
____________
|
|
NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
|
|
posted March 08, 2022 01:45 AM |
|
|
Wasn'0t the +inititative demon guy completely busted? Since that gave extra turns to his troops + early gating
____________
Never changing = never improving
|
|
Stintet
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted March 08, 2022 11:06 AM |
|
|
NimoStar said:
Wasn'0t the +inititative demon guy completely busted? Since that gave extra turns to his troops + early gating
I don't know which hero you're talking about. Sure you're not thinking of Agrael from the campaign? He isn't available in most game modes.
I should maybe specify that I am talking about multiplayer maps in particular xd.
____________
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted March 08, 2022 05:15 PM |
|
|
...lol.
Deleb in same tier as Grawl.
Kaspar B.
Deleb/Telsek C.
Ingvar D.
Doesn't sound like multiplayer rankings.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
Rimgrabber
Promising
Famous Hero
Voice in Gelu's Head
|
|
posted March 08, 2022 06:13 PM |
|
|
Been a while since I played vanilla H5 but I'm pretty sure Deleb is widely regarded as the most broken hero in the entire game. Rutger's logistics specialization is also totally busted. I'd also put Kaspar in S tier, Laszlo probably in A or B because his vindicators with vampirism +fallen knight are extremely powerful late game.
____________
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted March 08, 2022 07:16 PM |
|
Edited by Elvin at 19:18, 08 Mar 2022.
|
Sure, ratings can change a lot whether you are looking at the meta from the perspective of early, mid or lategame. But here there doesn't seem to be a particular early or late bias. Heroes are just mostly out of place. PS, even on large maps warmachinists get such a massive momentum that it doesn't matter if ballista isn't that great by week 4-5. Logistics specialists are great but if you don't get 'creeping' skills early, a lot of their momentum will be wasted. I'd rather start with warmachines and get logistics later than the reverse.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted March 08, 2022 07:25 PM |
|
|
I should mention.. I'm not a big fan of Kaspar. Necro already has fantastic creeping and even on harder creeping maps, you'll normally just spend more time exploiting spirit link than have actual losses. He can make things even easier but.. I dunno, would prefer to have another skill in place of warmachines. It's different with say Vittorio or Telsek, these guys need a ballista for good creeping. Necro is fine with summoning/enlightenment/logistics. Fire warriors also a wonderful possibility for midgame if there are hard neutral stacks you want to tackle early, no need to upgrade your guild even.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
Stintet
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted March 08, 2022 10:53 PM |
|
|
Elvin said:
...lol.
Deleb in same tier as Grawl.
Kaspar B.
Deleb/Telsek C.
Ingvar D.
Doesn't sound like multiplayer rankings.
I could be wrong about Grawl. To be honest I have never played him because of his terrible abilities, but isn't his specialisation and starting units significantly better than for example Telsek's? His momentum should be stronger than some warmachine heroes' once hell hounds are upgraded.
Also, I don't see how Kaspar could be significantly higher or lower. The bonus early game he gains feels expedient, after thinking about it I guess he's more C tier worthy, but I don't see an argument for Deleb being significantly better than him. Deleb's speciality is total junk, all she has is a ballista+advanced warmachines start, which is easily accessible to Kaspar during the first days.
Do you think Ingvar deserves to be higher or lower?
Rimgrabber said:
Been a while since I played vanilla H5 but I'm pretty sure Deleb is widely regarded as the most broken hero in the entire game. Rutger's logistics specialization is also totally busted. I'd also put Kaspar in S tier, Laszlo probably in A or B because his vindicators with vampirism +fallen knight are extremely powerful late game.
Deleb was ridiculous but her specialisation has been nerfed. I believe the fireballs damage is '1' until level 8.
I think Rutger's specialization is bad in combination with his otherwise weak earlygame. The bonus is so underpowered in comparison to Grok's that it catches up by level 21, and Grok's specialization has the added teleport ability which can be useful against ranged or slow melee creatures.
Regarding Kaspar, I'm actually moving him to C tier after thinking things through. I think plague tent is a bait and ballista upgrades should always be prioritised over it. His abilities are great but less impactful from having access to raise dead.
Updated the list, moved Laszlo up.
____________
|
|
Zaio-Baio
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted March 09, 2022 01:55 AM |
bonus applied by Galaad on 09 Mar 2022. |
|
Here is my h5 main hero tier list
Barbarians: They have 4 heroes that are worth playing in multiplayer games:
Haggash - starts with 3 stacks of shooters and has a very nice specialty. She buffs the lvl 2 units of the orc town which are the backbone of the orc army for the majority of the game.
Telsek - starts with the best possible starting skill in the game - war machines. He is going to have a very easy early game and is very likely to learn logistics + warpath fast. A very strong hero that is often underestimated.
Kragh - His specialty is broken. On his 1st turn of the fight you can press wait and then he can immediately cast a spell. At lvl 30 he can cast +15 attack +1 speed battle cry and buff all his army before they act. It allows for a very powerful 1st turn charge that decimates the opposition.
Urgath - another hero with broken specialty - she receives + 1% movement speed for each level. On rich maps where she can reach lvl 25-30 by week 4 she can have huge advantage.
Demon lords: They have only 1 good hero for multiplayer games and it is:
Deleb - by far the best demon lord hero. Starts with war machines that provide a very needed support to the inferno creeping. Logistics + warpath are easy to get and so is dark magic. A top tier hero that has good chances to win vs every town.
Knights They have 2 heroes that are good in multiplayer games:
Vittorio - the king on large and rich maps. Has a very good early game with war machines, also logistics + warpath are easy to get. Can creep the map very fast and accumulate an enormous amounts of gold that can be used to amass huge quantities of paladins. His creeping speed, consistency and late game power are very hard to match.
Dougal - has even higher potential then Vittorio, but is not as consistent as him. He needs to get war machines and logistics + warpath fast in order to outperform Vito and often times this is not the case. That being said, Dougal has a better starting army and also a better specialty.
Necromancers There is one hero that is a lot stronger than all others and it is:
Kaspar - by far the best necromancer in the game. Starts with war machines, also logs + warpath and dark magic are easy to get. He has the fastest early game from all necromancers and can amass a lot of gold and also break the zone guards faster than all others. On small maps he is the fastest necro rusher, on large maps he can make the best use of shrine of the netherworld.
Rangers There are 2 heroes that are a lot stronger than the rest and they are:
Ossir - the best ranger hero overall. He starts with 3 stacks of shooters that provide a very needed boost to sylvan creeping. His lategame is also great, arcane archers under his command can one shot most of the tier 7 units before they get a chance to act.
Wyngaal - Has the best specialty in the game. His late game army is very swift, but the problem is that his early game is too slow to compete against war machine starters. Its best to choose Ossir as starting hero and switch to Wyngaal if you find him in the tavern.
Runemages Most of the heroes are good, as they can get war machines fast, however the best are:
Karli - the fastest dwarven hero - starts with 3 stacks of shooters and his luck starting skill works very well with war machines. Upgrading his shooters to harpooners asap is highly recommended.
Ingvar - a very strong lategame hero on maps with multiple tier 1 dwellings. However, he has a slower start compared to Karli.
Helmar - His specialty is very strong in the lategame, but his starting army is average and doesn't allow him to have a fast early game unless he gets war machines quickly. In some match-ups its best to start with Karli for the 3 stacks of shooters and then switch to Helmar.
Warlocks Best warlock hero is:
Yrvanna - starts with 3 stacks of furies that once upgraded are very good at creeping slow walking units. Also has enlightenment + intelligence that help with the warlock's early game mana issues. Not starting with destructive or dark magic is actually a plus, because your opponent will not know what magic school you have.
Wizards Best hero by far is:
Havez - the king on small and medium maps. He is the only hero in the game that starts with 3 stacks of shooters and war machines. His early game is crazy good but his low chance of learning logistics keeps him somewhat balanced on larger maps.
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted March 09, 2022 10:33 AM |
|
|
I used to main Haggash/Kragh/Telsek, fun times.
In haven I also liked Maeve, takes a while to get rolling but solid skills and more or less guaranteed mass haste.
Necro I was fond of Naadir. More interesting than most and I liked the dual magic gameplay. Vlad was useful but eh.
I never played Wyngaal, I found him broken xD My love was Ylthin ^^
Fortress I mostly liked Karli, easy soldier's luck and less annoying creeping than the rest ^^ Inga was fun too but yeah, those three best.
Dungeon I was mostly an Yrwanna player. Starting intelligence yum. Simitar is good but he never captured me, felt one dimensional.
Academy I avoided Havez, too cheesy heh. I liked Jhora, easy to shape however you like.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
Zaio-Baio
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted March 11, 2022 10:43 PM |
|
|
Stintet said:
I could be wrong about Grawl. To be honest I have never played him because of his terrible abilities, but isn't his specialisation and starting units significantly better than for example Telsek's? His momentum should be stronger than some warmachine heroes' once hell hounds are upgraded.
War machine starters are a lot stronger than Grawl, however they have to be played right. It is very important to get 3x ballista and tent as fast as possible and to not pick any new skills except logistics until you do that. Ballista + tent will improve your early game a lot and will allow you to take fights that are impossible for other heroes during the first few weeks. As a result you will get a lot more gold, resources, arts and experience compared to an average hero.
And because war machines are very self sufficient and consistent you can safely pick logistics + warpath afterwards, without having creeping difficulties. Expert logs provides + 30% movement and warpath +10% more movement for each fight on the map. If you have 5 fights every day its +80% extra movement. Most heroes in the game can not match this crazy pace.
Stintet said:
Also, I don't see how Kaspar could be significantly higher or lower. The bonus early game he gains feels expedient, after thinking about it I guess he's more C tier worthy
Kaspar is the best necro hero because he is the only one that can have war machines + logistics combo at start. Other heroes will have to invest in summoning + enlightenment or dark + enlightenment to have a decent creeping and this means delaying logistics and warpath. And the more you delay logistics the more your level ups will flood with random skills and the harder it is going to be to get warpath.
Stintet said:
Deleb's speciality is total junk, all she has is a ballista+advanced warmachines start, which is easily accessible to Kaspar during the first days.
It is not about the specialty, it is about the staring skill. Deleb can get war machines + logs and warpath quickly, she is by far the best demon lord.
Stintet said:
Do you think Ingvar deserves to be higher or lower?
Ingvar is a very strong lategame hero on maps with multiple level one dwellings. To make him even stronger you should pick attack + battle frenzy and put necklace of bloody claw to further increase the damage of the shieldguards. All the extra durability of his level one units will provide you with more time to cast divine vengeance on the opponents stacks, the extra hp will also increase the chance to proc thunderclap rune.
Rimgrabber said:
Been a while since I played vanilla H5 but I'm pretty sure Deleb is widely regarded as the most broken hero in the entire game.
Not the most broken but pretty OP.
Rimgrabber said:
Rutger's logistics specialization is also totally busted.
The way Rutger specs works is that it increases his total movement by 1% for each 2 levels. At lvl 20, assuming he has expert logistics his movement speed will be 130% + 13% = 143%. At level 30 - 130% + 19,5% =149,5%. The bonus is small unless the map allows you to get to high levels quickly.
Rimgrabber said:
Laszlo probably in A or B because his vindicators with vampirism +fallen knight are extremely powerful late game.
Vindicators are cool but weak. Cleave is pretty weak on 4 speed 8 ini unit with low attack. Vampirism is instead best cast on the quadruple stack of paladins.
Laszlo's potential lies elsewhere, he can be easily mentored to a goblin knight 
|
|
Stintet
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted March 15, 2022 08:56 PM |
|
|
Zaio-Baio said:
War machine starters are a lot stronger than Grawl, however they have to be played right. It is very important to get 3x ballista and tent as fast as possible and to not pick any new skills except logistics until you do that. Ballista + tent will improve your early game a lot and will allow you to take fights that are impossible for other heroes during the first few weeks. As a result you will get a lot more gold, resources, arts and experience compared to an average hero.
And because war machines are very self sufficient and consistent you can safely pick logistics + warpath afterwards, without having creeping difficulties. Expert logs provides + 30% movement and warpath +10% more movement for each fight on the map. If you have 5 fights every day its +80% extra movement. Most heroes in the game can not match this crazy pace.
Thanks first of all for explaining things in the reply. I had never rushed first aid tent on warmachine heroes, and after limit testing with different heroes today I agree with you as it does seem pretty broken.
How do you reach level 25-30 by week 4? Even after clearing every environmental combat I can get on large maps I rarely make it past level 25, even after winning against AI/Players, and most games seem to be decided before you reach level 22 on most maps.
You mentioned Urgath gaining 1% movement speed, but the skill wheel says that she gains 1% every three levels, and 2% less rough terrain penalty for every level?
____________
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted March 15, 2022 11:59 PM |
|
|
Try let's fight. Good map to stress test creeping and you can get above lvl 15 week 2, esp with a warlock or a warmachinist.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
Zaio-Baio
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted March 16, 2022 10:17 PM |
|
|
Stintet said:
How do you reach level 25-30 by week 4? Even after clearing every environmental combat I can get on large maps I rarely make it past level 25, even after winning against AI/Players, and most games seem to be decided before you reach level 22 on most maps.
It depends on the map. Only very rich maps allow to reach lvl 30 in week 4.
Stintet said:
You mentioned Urgath gaining 1% movement speed, but the skill wheel says that she gains 1% every three levels, and 2% less rough terrain penalty for every level?
The description in the skill wheel is wrong.
|
|
ArdentWyrm
Famous Hero
King of the Elder Dragons
|
|
posted November 30, 2022 05:58 PM |
|
|
Why is Ossir in top tier?
____________
Torment is blinding. It lies. Its pollution steals my sense. It promises: destroy everything and the pain will cease.
- Kralkatorrik
https://dragcave.net/user/ArdentWyrm
|
|
Zaio-Baio
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted December 03, 2022 09:05 PM |
|
|
ArdentWyrm said:
Why is Ossir in top tier?
Ossir is S tier only on maps with 2x tier 3 dwellings and easy access to regeneration/ressurection.
|
|
ArdentWyrm
Famous Hero
King of the Elder Dragons
|
|
posted December 12, 2022 09:04 PM |
|
|
Here are my rankings for best H5 heroes in general:
Dungeon
Sinitar - catalyst lets him cast empowered spells at original cost by level 20, which is really powerful for a warlock.
Academy
Jhora - windspeaker is very useful, especially coupled with sorcery and arcane training.
Inferno
Nebiros - chosen of chaos with +1 luck and tactics negate is quite useful, coupled with his own tactics and gating+attack.
Sylvan
Ylthin - starting with a specialized unicorn is quite good, while master of blessing makes all your units empowered.
Haven
Kiar - paladin specialty makes thes charging powerhouses even more effective, as for the skills, they are good too.
won't be doing anymore factions.
____________
Torment is blinding. It lies. Its pollution steals my sense. It promises: destroy everything and the pain will cease.
- Kralkatorrik
https://dragcave.net/user/ArdentWyrm
|
|
|
|
