|
| Thread: Assuming Galthran is your main hero... |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
|
Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
|
posted May 20, 2022 07:29 PM |
|
|
Poll Question:
Assuming Galthran is your main hero...
...what will you do if Galthran acquires Cloak of the Undead King?
|
|
Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
|
posted May 20, 2022 11:40 PM |
|
|
Maybe I should have named the poll "Which Necro hero has the most potential with Cloak of the Undead King" instead.
The cloak actually kinda ruins Galthran's specialty, but I guess the cloak is so OP that Galthran's specialty becoming useless is a fair trade to a legion of liches... 
|
|
NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
|
|
posted May 21, 2022 12:37 AM |
|
|
none because cape should be banned 
____________
Never changing = never improving
|
|
Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
|
|
posted May 21, 2022 05:53 AM |
|
|
You forgot giving it to Quests. Poll winner is Isra/Vidomina, of course, but Galthran with legion Skeletons and Liches or you give to another hero in WoG/ERA, if you are using 10 skills permit legion Skeletons, Ghosts and Liches and more Dracoliches than usual, if you also enabled 8lvl dwellings. What I've seen very stupid AM and XP, when coercive measure can't found in a map than Walkthrough where are Quests or maybe SoD campaign, if I remember right. However Walkthrough can collect legion after Quests, but it takes time, and computer AI becomes strongest. If you like cheat players, so your map then. What about Moandor? Single or Walkthrough you can use a lich bonuses are higher than normal specialty, so in WoG, you have over 100% HP, etc but lich is better than skeleton, and we can't say poor hero in the last battle before Isra/Vidomina gives Liches him. Remember Primary and Secondary Skills must be decent. PRO players can play less experienced Moandor. But the best heroes are Galthran, Isra, Vidomina and Thant by obsession.
____________
Fight MWMs - stand teach
|
|
Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
|
|
posted May 21, 2022 07:35 AM |
|
|
You know what, I actually understood most of your post Ghost. 
The WoG stuff I don't really know or care about though.
I guess the most optimal route would be to let Isra or Vidomina farm liches en masse and then perhaps give them to Moandor before a big battle. (Assuming Isra/Vidomina is not 25 levels above Moandor.)
@NimoStar When you say banned, do you mean you should'nt be able to assemble the 3 components or how? (But yeah I agree CotUK is one of the very most OP things in H3.)
|
|
phe
Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
|
|
posted May 21, 2022 09:19 AM |
|
Edited by phe at 12:03, 21 May 2022.
|
whoever hero has Cloak it should revive equal total number of HPs in skeletons or liches(so 5 skellies is 1 lich), so after every fight you dismiss 4/5 of new liches to make it fair... 
|
|
Zaio-Baio
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted May 21, 2022 03:07 PM |
|
|
Phoenix4ever said:
I guess the most optimal route would be to let Isra or Vidomina farm liches en masse and then perhaps give them to Moandor before a big battle. (Assuming Isra/Vidomina is not 25 levels above Moandor.)
The most optimal way is to use your big skeleton stack to break the guards to the rich zone faster then your opponent. Then to grab all the good stuff there and to rush your opponent while you have a big level/stats/artifact advantage. Splitting your army between 5 necro heroes will give your opponent the chance to catch you off guard with dimension door and shackles and beat your main hero.
|
|
Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
|
|
posted May 21, 2022 03:28 PM |
|
|
Nobody was talking about having 5 heroes.
Isra/Vidomina and maybe Moandor, that's 1 or 2.
But you do have a point, splitting your army is not always a good idea. You need to be careful about ambushes at least.
|
|
NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
|
|
posted May 21, 2022 04:45 PM |
|
|
Phoenix4ever said:
I guess the most optimal route would be to let Isra or Vidomina farm liches en masse and then perhaps give them to Moandor before a big battle. (Assuming Isra/Vidomina is not 25 levels above Moandor.)
@NimoStar When you say banned, do you mean you should'nt be able to assemble the 3 components or how? (But yeah I agree CotUK is one of the very most OP things in H3.)
I guess the way would be to either ban one of the components, or have an informal rule that you cannot assemble them.-
Since just disabling it appearing pre-assembled doesn'0t really preclude its use (some oversight IMO, there should be an option to disable assembly artifacts selectively)
____________
Never changing = never improving
|
|
phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
|
|
posted May 23, 2022 08:31 PM |
|
|
Just got a weird idea:
What if Galthran instead of giving insane bonusses to skeletons + making more through necromancy, instead was able to upgrade Skeletons to Skeleton Warriors?
Would this be a more fair specialty? Good, bad, average?
Or you think Galthran is fine to use the way he is?
|
|
NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
|
|
posted May 23, 2022 09:53 PM |
|
Edited by NimoStar at 22:32, 23 May 2022.
|
Seems like a useless specialty to do the same as a building...
IMO the way to make gathran not OP is to tier Necromancy into giving you different things, as in H4
So Necromancy can give Skeletons, Zombies, or Wights/Liches without the Cowl, but only in AI value 5/10/15% proportional to destroyed creatures.
Similarly Skeleton Transformer could be Undead Transformer to creatures in the same level, but only up to a % of the value of sacrificed creatures (lets say 50% of the AI value). For example, let's say 10 dwarves become 5 zombies. This is of higher value for your zombie stack.
To turn 100 peasants into 100 skeletons is busted and this makes Galthran busted. Skeleton specialty in itself is nothing to write home about. It's just that there is too many efficient ways of making more skeletons.
____________
Never changing = never improving
|
|
Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
|
|
posted May 23, 2022 11:16 PM |
|
|
Not sure it would be useless, it could have it's uses and definitely not as useless as specialising in Eagle Eye, First Aid, Slayer or Fortune when you already have Luck or Bloodlust when half the army is immune to it.
But yeah would have been interesting if Necromancy was also able to create other necro creatures, just have to be careful as that could also easily become OP.
Galthran could also just receive a static +3 attack and defense and +1 speed, but that seems a bit boring. (Never found out where to apply the speed bonus on static creature bonus either.)
|
|
NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
|
|
posted May 24, 2022 12:45 AM |
|
Edited by NimoStar at 00:46, 24 May 2022.
|
+3 atk and def and + speed would still be very strong, tho. I know my proposal is beyond the powers of amateur modding since it requires logic changes in skills and buildings.
How about you let him upgrade for a price Skeletons into Zombies? Or another, perhaps neutral undead creature (even a third skeleton upgrade)
This would be more in line with the converter heroes we already have (elves into Sharpshooters, Magi into Enchanters)
Zombies are very slow and the other creature can be custom-made, so it would not be such an OP specialty (not more than it already is, in any case; since Galthran skeletons already become much stronger than zombies for free) and it would be a "unique", "fun" specialty.
Third upgrade for skeletons is probably the most flavorful but that requires making/adding a new creature.
____________
Never changing = never improving
|
|
Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
|
|
posted May 24, 2022 08:23 AM |
|
|
+3 is nothing compared to what he will eventually get. In level 27 he gets +9, more than any other creature specialist.
It's weird how original developers thought it was a good idea to give skeletons so high attack and defense values and having Galthran specialise in them + necromancy + Skeleton Transformer.
Hmm a second skeleton upgrade is beyond my skill level and upgrading skeletons to zombies seems a little weird imo.
|
|
NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
|
|
posted May 24, 2022 06:12 PM |
|
Edited by NimoStar at 21:07, 24 May 2022.
|
+3 is superior to wat he gets before lvel 11, tho
https://heroes.thelazy.net/index.php/Galthran
Considering the first weeks are so crucial in heroes...
No regular, enabled static creature specialist gives so high bonus, let alone to level 1 creatures.
Fire: +1 tk + 2 def + 2 dmg
Water: +2 atk
Earth: +2 atk, +1 def, +5 dmg
Psychic: +3 atk and def (but no speed)
The other thing is, Galthran starts with too many skeletons... (even doubly so if enabled in HotA)
***
Well, if upgrading skeletons to something doesn't work, ow about upgrading things TO skeletons?
Say, can upgrade any level 1 creature into skeletons, making him a walking skeleton transformer (but has to pay gold difference). This feels a bit more special than upgrading to skeleton warriors, and doesn't unbalance the game more givn that you have a better version at town (making the Galthran skill not obsolete the building, unlike with Warrior upgrades).
The other advantage is since this is still skeletons, you can keep the specialty image.
____________
Never changing = never improving
|
|
phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
|
|
posted May 24, 2022 06:55 PM |
|
|
Water, Fire and Earth Elemental specialists does'nt give bonus to speed either. (I don't like the Planeswalkers static creature specialties, I changed them to standard creature specialties.)
The walking Skeleton Transformer idea is not bad, I'm not sure it's possible to assign different types of creatures for conversion though. (Well it probably is, but I don't know how.)
|
|
NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
|
|
posted May 24, 2022 07:54 PM |
|
Edited by NimoStar at 19:55, 24 May 2022.
|
I know they don't give speed. I was comparin it to your proposal of both static stat boost and speed upgrade. Both of which are more important in skeleton. And showing the best static specialist is still worse than the proposal (not even counting limitless skeleton hordes)
Well, it certanly is possible to use various base creatures for conversion
Default heroes do it
Elves -> Sharpshooters
Gran Elves -> Sharpshooters
Archers -> Sharpshooters
Marksmen -> Sharpshooters
____________
Never changing = never improving
|
|
Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
|
|
posted May 24, 2022 08:53 PM |
|
|
You just put (but no speed) at Phychic Elementals, so it sounded like you thought only they did'nt get speed bonus.
Oh right, but that's only 4 creature id's, sound like you wanted to convert all level 1 creatures, so that is like 20 creature id's, but I suppose it is possible.
Should Galthran convert to Skeletons or Skeletons Warriors in your opinion?
|
|
NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
|
|
posted May 24, 2022 11:29 PM |
|
|
Well, as long there is a list, it sould be theoretically possible to somehow extend those lists indefinitely.
I don't think skeleton warriors are warranted because in that case you do risk to obsolete the other building as I said (plus it's significantly more powerful than your own previous idea), but if it's your personal preference for your private mod, of course, you can do whatever you want.
____________
Never changing = never improving
|
|
Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
|
|
posted May 24, 2022 11:43 PM |
|
|
Yeah, I don't know, I was just looking for ways to bring Galthran back to the game, but none of the ideas seems 100% ideal.
Since he starts with Armorer, I suppose he could also become an Armorer specialist, but that does'nt have much to do with skeletons and we have 3 Armorer specialists already, so that does'nt seem like a good idea either.
|
|
|
|
