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| Thread: Zombies and Dendroid Soldiers |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 02, 2023 06:21 PM |
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Zombies and Dendroid Soldiers
Zombies and Dendroid Soldiers are the only upgraded creatures with a speed below 5, which makes them very slow in combat and on the adventure map. (Except if playing Straker or Ryland.)
My question is do you take these slow, but relatively tanky creatures with your main hero or do you leave them at home?
If you leave them at home, which creatures do you usually replace them with? (I guess it depends on if/how many creature banks there are.)
Some rangers start with Archery, so perhaps it would make sense to get another shooter stack instead of Dendroid Soldiers, if there is room in the army?
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted January 02, 2023 06:47 PM |
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They're a defender.. You can protect your shooter units, for example.. In chess your slow pawns protect your pieces, and you try pawns to goal and change queen or other pieces.. So teleport if you're busy.. and their abilities.. Ok Castle defenders are 1, 2, 4.. Medium speed 7 means both.. More speed is a attacker.. But you choose you give your defeat to slow, medium or fast.. If you don't want to use attackers.. Rampart 2, 5.. But you notice their stats..
Once I made a map, where are many Dendroids.. AIs destroy Dendroids, not Elves 
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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martingalindo
Hired Hero
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posted January 02, 2023 07:32 PM |
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Dendroid at least can set enemy in place to protect shooters better
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baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted January 02, 2023 07:40 PM |
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The same HI HII... These slow high HP small attack creatures are only to guard your city.
But rather Dvarwes than Ents! Ent with additional growth is 6lvl unit and give you real power. So often can be used to attack especially with haste.
Map speed dependent on slowest unit is very bad solution because we rather recruit faster creatures so they always staying in home.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 02, 2023 08:12 PM |
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So you guys are saying leave Zombies, but take Dendroid Soldiers along?
Yeah Dendroid Soldiers are quite strong, especially with extra growth, but they also slow you down a lot, so it's quite a dilemma...
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baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted January 02, 2023 08:49 PM |
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Use second hero only to transport! Main hero with super fast unit allow you fast travelling exploring powerups and to fast flag important objects. When you see battle second hero only give you rest army. Second hero especially for Dvarwes Ents Ogres etc. but for medium speed units too.
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phe
Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
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posted January 02, 2023 09:04 PM |
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Edited by phe at 22:05, 02 Jan 2023.
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maybe there should be wagons to buy or hire in towns, stables, garrissons etc...or new Logistics skill should provide them(instead of old one increasing movement points)...to carry slow troops and make minimal speed no less than 7,9,11 etc...
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted January 02, 2023 09:07 PM |
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If you don't like a defeat.. What all the game belonged in the defeat.. If you don't like.. I recommend you use a Diplomacy to replace 2 and 5.. Why you don't play sacrifice or special troops or AI destroys your troops without resurrection game, what many elite players play.. Only they use clone archangels.. And I always thinking Dendroids can't resurrect.. In ERA II you can enable Zombies gain the ability to devour enemy corpses restoring health and number if they attack or completely destroy a stack of living creatures..
Only weak spots / flaws are hero movement, enemy cast a berserk to Dendroids, so your shooters walk out from Dendroids or you cast a Teleport to berserk Dendroids.. Hit and Run..
Ok you must play with Eovacius.. Learning about defenders tasks.. When Dragons killer..
Can haste + anti-magic? You need to try everyone game like unskilled in English..
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 02, 2023 09:33 PM |
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Ghost the only thing I am really concerned with here is that Zombies and Dendroid Soldiers slow you down. It does'nt really matter how good the units are, they slow you down a lot on the adventure map.
So is the main hero just going to pretend these units does'nt exist or is he gonna drag them around...
@baronus A second hero that transports the slower troops is a good idea, however what if that hero gets attacked by an unseen enemy or you have to move over islands. Your secondary hero might not have Fly, Water Walk and Dimension Door and might not be able to keep up with the main hero, especially since he has the slow troops.
So that idea also has some issues.
I am actually considering setting minimum adventure speed to that of a speed 5 creature. That way you won't be punished for taking those super slow troops along.
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted January 02, 2023 10:15 PM |
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Phoenix4ever said:
I am actually considering setting minimum adventure speed to that of a speed 5 creature. That way you won't be punished for taking those super slow troops along.
It's a strategy game. You've got to make decisions, take risks....
What's wrong with that?
I'm glad HoMM's units are distinguishable by more than outer appearance.
So secondary heroes or leaving them in town which also can be attacked by a flying/ Dimension Dooring hero.
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baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted January 02, 2023 10:59 PM |
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Yes sometimes like with flying its imposibble but its very rare. Usually its simple ground walking. In the case of isles you are using a lot of boats. Ground algorithm not work. Only navigation is first.
Yes it should be Independent battle movement and map movement because it waste completly slow units. Two penalties. More interesting battles we have if speed is very diversificated. Slow units are better in H2 when is not option *wait. Enemy often is destroyed by slow units because we cant use wait! Often better is to have slow units!! And its very interesting. Wait i very destructive for slowers.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 02, 2023 11:35 PM |
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gatecrasher said:
It's a strategy game. You've got to make decisions, take risks....
What's wrong with that?
I'm glad HoMM's units are distinguishable by more than outer appearance.
So secondary heroes or leaving them in town which also can be attacked by a flying/ Dimension Dooring hero.
Yes it's a strategy game, but is'nt it a shame if you decide speed 3 or speed 4 units are only suitable for towns? Maybe even speed 5 or speed 6 units as well?
In theory you should actually ONLY carry speed 11+ units around, which would make a lot of creatures useless. It's just kind of a shame.
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ArdentWyrm
Famous Hero
King of the Elder Dragons
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posted January 03, 2023 01:34 AM |
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I don't take zombies along, they're too slow, besides slowing down your hero, they barely make it to the action in time, I do take dendroids along, though as they can root your enemies.
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Torment is blinding. It lies. Its pollution steals my sense. It promises: destroy everything and the pain will cease.
- Kralkatorrik
https://dragcave.net/user/ArdentWyrm
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heymlich
Famous Hero
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posted January 03, 2023 05:00 PM |
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Zombies are horrible. If I have the spare money to buy them, I rather invest in a second town.
Dendroids are good only in theory. Rampart relies on speed. Hit the enemy fast and hit them hard. Dendroids (and dwarves) are too slow, in most fights they never see action. I leave them at home for most of the game, but bring the dendroids along if there is a decisive battle against an enemy main hero.
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Hourglass
Famous Hero
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posted January 03, 2023 05:31 PM |
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In general, main hero should have another hero nearby who can take the slower troops for the end of turn. This way the slower troops will not bite you nearly as much. This doesn't mean you should play carelessly, and if there is a danger of the hero getting attack, then obviously it's better to leave all troops on main hero between the turns. However, there shouldn't be that many turns where you're slow, as in the early game you can easily abuse the trick, and in the later stages of the game you have access to control spells, and you can use the town boost trick on most of the turns anyway.
When it comes to Walking dead/Zombies, I feel they don't really have a good purpose, and the best way to gain benefit out of them is simply sacrificing them through Skeleton transformer, as it's usually best to build that building on turn one anyway.
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martingalindo
Hired Hero
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posted January 04, 2023 12:44 AM |
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heymlich said:
Zombies are horrible.
I believe thats a common thing in all the Heroes i have play, they are bad in H3, H5, H2 and also in H4
The mayor problem they have is that while they are somehow tanky in HP they dont have neither good damage or defence and there is always a better tanky unit in tier 2 or 3.
So in comparison they are trash vs the dwarf in H2 and H3
And in H5 they are bad compared to the Gargoile or even compared with the tier 1 dwarf unit (defender/Shieldguard) they cant fullfill the tanky archer protector role because they do nothing beside having some HP.
I guess the Might and Magic aproach to zombies is to make them like punching bag of HP
I did somehow like that concept instead of some modern view of zombies being super fast runners.
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heymlich
Famous Hero
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posted January 04, 2023 05:17 AM |
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Edited by heymlich at 05:19, 04 Jan 2023.
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Hourglass said:
In general, main hero should have another hero nearby who can take the slower troops for the end of turn.
Well, yes - or maybe not. 
I play without unit chaining. It makes the game easier and I generally don't look for ways to reduce the difficulty. Ofcourse that doesn't apply to everyone.
However, my other point remains. Dendroids rarely see action and therefore contribute little.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted March 03, 2023 09:04 AM |
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I'm using Dendroids.. I don't use Zombies due to price and Dwarves are magical creature, when I don't take Fire  Why I read that Rampart needed Tactics*, Air*, Logistics, Pathfinding and Resistance due to cultural strategy makes OP to Rampart.. I tried many times, requirement skills are hard getting.. Easier if you hire Necromancers and Death Knights, you play with slow skeletons..
*main strategy..
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted March 03, 2023 10:13 AM |
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I just take Zombies along until they can be replaced with better troops. Then they go back to Garrison.
Dendroids and Dwarves too I leave in the Town to defend against a siege. And I take them on main hero only in case of emergencies.
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted March 03, 2023 01:20 PM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 13:27, 03 Mar 2023.
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heymlich said:
Well, yes - or maybe not.
I play without unit chaining. It makes the game easier and I generally don't look for ways to reduce the difficulty. Ofcourse that doesn't apply to everyone.
However, my other point remains. Dendroids rarely see action and therefore contribute little.
I wouldn't say dendroids" rarely" see action.
Speed is more than enough for creature banks, for example.
Also, enemy fast fliers will reach your army in turn 1, and neutral AI tends to do these kinds of suicide attacks.
So, there are lots of situations for dendroid guards to fight, from dragon utopias to assaulting phoenix stacks.
Also, even though Dendroid Soldier speed is nominally 4, they are native to grass, so they get +1 in grass terrain in combat - by far the most common terrain since its shared with castle and conflux in unmodded game.
Much more common than Dirt for zombies. Also zombies are not only slow but also expensive for their power level. All in all, only thing useful for zombies is Disease - and that rarely triggers (also, should have a different anim than Implosion...)
Furthermore, due to being the only might hero with Diplomacy, Ryland is the supreme hero : )
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Never changing = never improving
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