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| Thread: Let's Design: Armageddon specialist |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted December 02, 2023 11:33 AM |
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Let's Design: Armageddon specialist
A continuation to a thread I did a month ago, this time we're thinking about a hero that would most definietly been someone players would identify. I'm actually a bit surprised the original game didn't feature this type of hero in any way.
The point of this thread is to imagine, design and have a discussion about what a hero with Armageddon specialty could have looked like. According to a classic NWC design, a hero that has a specialty to a certain spell always starts with that spell, too - but here you can also disagree with that.
If you wish, you can use the following questions to help you within the discussion:
1) What town and which class could have gotten Armageddon specialty?
2) Could this hero be put on a regular hero roster (available for every game) or should it be for campaign purposes only?
3) Would it be overpowered, good, average, or perhaps even a poor ability to be had? Where it would be at it's strongest/weakest?
4) Magic heroes tend to have Wisdom (or Necromancy) as their starting secondary skill, but what would been the other skill?
5) What hero should it replace, or is replacing necessary?
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heymlich
Famous Hero
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posted December 02, 2023 12:28 PM |
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Hourglass said:
... a hero that has a specialty to a certain spell always starts with that spell, too - but here you can also disagree with that.
If he doesn't start with Armageddon, I would not want him. Because the best Armageddon hero, by far, is Dessa 
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted December 02, 2023 12:41 PM |
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I have never liked Armageddon, it's a cheaters spell.
I would actually prefer if Armageddon and Fire Immunity did'nt exist.
So I would not want such a hero, but I suppose if there were to be one, it would belong to Inferno or Dungeon.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted December 02, 2023 02:20 PM |
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Adrienne the Witch has OP Inferno, but an easy beginning game, thus we change her spell due to very hard game.. I don't want call some spells are very good and easy..
It after two heroes have a Armageddon specialists are Xarfax the Heretic and Septienna the Necromancer.. When their bio  But I wanted Wisdom - Eagle Eye - Armaggedon.. I don't know who..
Facepalm, thus my tuning game at mapeditor, so pretty strong! But if HotA wants to change heroes, so think about Wisdom - Eagle Eye - Armageddon again..
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted December 02, 2023 09:21 PM |
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I made one on my mod who has a better specialty, Adelaide has Titans Thunder as starting spell. I say is better cause she also starts with basic Sorcery (the only thing that improves that spell) and the first time she appears in a tavern she also has the Orb of the Firmament.
So she doesn't requires an upgraded level 7 unit to be deadly and never runs out of spell points early game, cause her most deadly spell is free of charge.
The Armageddon specialty requires an upgraded dragon or a Phoenix to be always profitable. It can be a bit like finding Mutare on a Castle's tavern, since she doesn't come with any dragons, you may never find an use for their specialties.
It could be a normal hero from Rampart (Dungeon already has Dragons as a specialty) but for a cheesy campaign it could have Armageddon's Blade effect too.
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heymlich
Famous Hero
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posted December 02, 2023 09:33 PM |
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bloodsucker said:
she also starts with basic Sorcery (the only thing that improves that spell) and the first time she appears in a tavern she also has the Orb of the Firmament.
Since you know it doesn't work with Titans Thunder, why give her the Orb?
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted December 03, 2023 07:48 AM |
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heymlich said:
Since you know it doesn't work with Titans Thunder, why give her the Orb?
Sorry, I meant Air and Power do nothing but the orb works. You start doing already more then 900 damage and can only go up to 1045.
This is her only handicap, it's an amazing early game hero, that can take a level 8 dwelling day 1 (if they aren't immune to 5, damage or Air) but late game is as useful as if she still had Frost Ring specialty.
And I forgot to answer the questions on pole...
1) What town and which class could have gotten Armageddon specialty?
Rampart/Druid.
2) Could this hero be put on a regular hero roster (available for every game) or should it be for campaign purposes only?
Could be a normal hero, cause it has high requirements to be just slightly better then any warlock with Sorcery and Fire.
3) Would it be overpowered, good, average, or perhaps even a poor ability to be had? Where it would be at it's strongest/weakest?
It would be extremely overpowered if found/belonging to Conflux, for Rampart it's not. It's not an hero you would like to start with and when you finally get Dragons, you will need him to be developed or won't do much. By this time Dragageddon is not a main's strategy any more. And that's his major weakness, poor timing. If you happen to find him day 1 of week 1, in any of the appropriate towns, he would be a wonderful hero but personally I would choose Ivor, Mephala or Kyrre to start with.
4) Magic heroes tend to have Wisdom (or Necromancy) as their starting secondary skill, but what would been the other skill?
Fire or Sorcery.
5) What hero should it replace, or is replacing necessary?
Maybe Pegassi but that's cause they deserve their own might specialist. More heroes seams a good thing to me but sometime ago only HotA had managed to do it. I make what I've described in two minutes in Era... Thought it was what we were talking about.
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LordCameron
Known Hero
Veteran of the Succession Wars
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posted December 03, 2023 05:01 PM |
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A silly thought that came to the top of my mind is give it to a Heretic. And their special makes it do Water Damage instead and act as a water spell instead.
Even then I think it would still be over powered to some extent. Not for inferno, but if Conflux or Tower managed to buy the hero they could load them up with Magic elementals or Iron golems and take huge advantage of it.
So in order to account for that I think the spell would need to start at 25% or so power and gain 5% per level or something like that. Maybe 10% per level but capped at 150% damage.
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heymlich
Famous Hero
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posted December 03, 2023 06:37 PM |
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Nah, give it to Ignissa. I mean, she got the looks, right? Of course, her secondaries need to be switched, too.
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Macron1
Supreme Hero
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posted December 03, 2023 07:57 PM |
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100% it must be speciality for Inferno.
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thecastrated
Famous Hero
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posted December 03, 2023 08:43 PM |
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It can be for conflux too. Fitting because three units are immune to it
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thecastrated
Famous Hero
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posted December 03, 2023 09:56 PM |
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Also what’s the name which gave rise to conflux?
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted December 03, 2023 11:11 PM |
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thecastrated said:
It can be for conflux too. Fitting because three units are immune to it
Four.
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thecastrated
Famous Hero
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posted December 03, 2023 11:46 PM |
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https://heroes.thelazy.net/index.php/Earth_Elemental_and_Magma_Elemental
Does not seem to be immune
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thecastrated
Famous Hero
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posted December 03, 2023 11:49 PM |
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted December 04, 2023 08:43 AM |
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I would like to point out that while Armageddon apparently fits Conflux theme pretty well, it was banned from that town. I assume, precisely because it can be messy when you can Dragageddon with any of your creatures above level 4. (in my first map, The Red Tent, they frequently try to attack just with level 4 and 5, precisely because of that).
I agree that this hero (still a magic one) fits Inferno better then Rampart, yet Inferno is a low HP town and if you try to Dragageddon with full army, your Efreets will go on a second and after that good luck trying to beat Castle or Tower's much greater HP. This wont be the savior of Inferno, while I think it needs one.
So, for me, Rampart is the town to have it. The druids class being so weak only reinforces that idea to me.
P.S. Thinking about a savior for Inferno... How about an hero that gives plus two to all attributes of Inferno creatures? Plus 2 HP wont do much for Efreets and Devils but will be amazing for Imps and Gogs, plus two of speed makes Archdevils faster then Archangels and Efreet Sultans able to reach most targets first round, plus 2 Damage is significative even for Efreets. So, it would be as good for Inferno (town that needs it) as Crag or Tazar but wouldn't do much for any other town, avoiding becoming too OP.
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heymlich
Famous Hero
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posted December 04, 2023 08:40 PM |
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bloodsucker said:
This wont be the savior of Inferno, while I think it needs one.
Of course it will be the savior for Inferno. They can do the neutrals faster with little losses and will be much stronger in the direct confrontation.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted December 04, 2023 10:21 PM |
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heymlich said:
Of course it will be the savior for Inferno. They can do the neutrals faster with little losses and will be much stronger in the direct confrontation.
Sorry, are you still talking about the Armageddon specialist?
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted December 04, 2023 11:46 PM |
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Bloodsucker your "Inferno savior" is too strong, +2 speed + more, is even more powerful than Sir Mullich, which is already banned in HotA, so yeah...
Besides Inferno is not even that weak in HotA.
Their Castle Gates (why are they called that?) are too expensive and too weak, when a spell like Town Portal exists though.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted December 05, 2023 12:25 AM |
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It only works for Inferno creatures, that are almost all weak for some reason. It's way more powerful then Devil's specialty? Yes. Is it more powerful then Crag or Tazar? You wish.
P.S. The fact that you only play one map in HotA is once again skewing your PoV, I was talking of an hero for ERA, an hero I can create in minutes instead wishful think it and hope someone else does it.
Now, in SoD Inferno is almost unplayable on even map. Just compare the cost and requirements for Inferno level 7 with the ones for Stronghold, Fortress or even Castle and compare the creatures you can then produce. Do you really think an Archdevil is worth 1.5 Ancient Behemoths? Less 10% then an Archangel?
This town needs a super buff, an hero that is amazing with those creatures and no others seems to me one way to get it.
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