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| Thread: 20 years later and I just learned how Hypnotise works |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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LordCameron
Famous Hero
Veteran of the Succession Wars
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posted December 22, 2023 09:13 PM |
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20 years later and I just learned how Hypnotise works
It is so rarely cast, and usually has so little impact I always assumed it worked like Homm2.
So I buffed it a bunch to make it actually useful, and was surprised to learn it lasts for as long as you have spellpower.
Who made that crazy decision? Somehow the spell was designed to both be overpowered and useless. You can never cast it, but if you do, it is way too strong.
Obvious solution is to only make it last until the unit is hit or they themselves attack, again like Homm2 or blind, or only make it last for 1/2/3 rounds.
The only reason I can imagine that they didn't fix this obvious oversight is because the spell is never able to be cast in the first place! 
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What are Homm Songs based on?
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Dowl_Dove
Tavern Dweller
Tower Dweller
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posted December 25, 2023 09:54 AM |
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If the current hypnotize spell lasted only for one round, it would never be cast (not that its used a lot in its current state). I don't think its possible to make it a balanced spell without significantly overhauling it.
Off topic, but how can you make changes (such as damage, round duration and mana cost) to existing spells?
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thecastrated
Famous Hero
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posted December 25, 2023 04:42 PM |
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You can't cure or dispel hypnotise? furthermore if you have exp. dispelling one shot dispel your 5 hypnosis
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LordCameron
Famous Hero
Veteran of the Succession Wars
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posted December 25, 2023 05:32 PM |
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Dowl_Dove said:
Off topic, but how can you make changes (such as damage, round duration and mana cost) to existing spells?
There is a number of ways. I used MMArchive to extract the SPTRAITS.txt from h3bitmap.lod and then used TextEdit to edit the values. Then you just drag the edited file back into the h3bitmap.lod using MMArchive
This method is fairly limited in the changes you can make, but it's pretty quick and easy.
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What are Homm Songs based on?
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 25, 2023 06:12 PM |
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Use WoG and modify any spell in seconds. Vanilla hypnotise sucks.
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thecastrated
Famous Hero
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posted December 28, 2023 11:36 AM |
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Maybe it is intended as it is. I mean when other side has been whittled down. Then use hypnotise to take out a unit plus take out a retaliation from a level 7. Or just control a shooter. Ain't too strong
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HeymlicH
Famous Hero
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posted December 28, 2023 11:55 AM |
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Edited by HeymlicH at 12:30, 28 Dec 2023.
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In the early game you don't have the spellpower to use Hypnosis. Even if you do, the spell is quite expensive. A few magic arrows will probably be a better choice. In later stages of the game you simply have better options.
For these reasons, Hypnosis is almost useless. I think in 25 years of H3 I have used it twice. That is no problem at all, a few useless spells don't ruin a great game. The existence of a few OP spells however is a problem, and it can not be solved by changing spells like Hypnosis.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted December 28, 2023 12:38 PM |
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I don't know what to think, I almost never found a helpful way to use it but the last fights I did in HotA were screwed by it. The f...ing Fangarms, of course.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted December 28, 2023 12:49 PM |
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I mostly use Hypnotize to cast on enchanters. It's nice when they cast mass spells for you and they are perfect, because they usually come in low numbers and with few hp.
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted December 28, 2023 07:14 PM |
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Dowl_Dove said:
If the current hypnotize spell lasted only for one round, it would never be cast (not that its used a lot in its current state). I don't think its possible to make it a balanced spell without significantly overhauling it.
Off topic, but how can you make changes (such as damage, round duration and mana cost) to existing spells?
Of course, the point is, Hypnotize should last only 1 round, but be WAY more powerful in regard to which creatures it can target.
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HeymlicH
Famous Hero
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posted December 28, 2023 08:36 PM |
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Edited by HeymlicH at 20:37, 28 Dec 2023.
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NimoStar said:
Of course, the point is, Hypnotize should last only 1 round, but be WAY more powerful in regard to which creatures it can target.
You could also go the other way: Make it strong but it only works on a certain group of units. Humanoids come to mind.
Or maybe make it less efficient against high tier units, similar to the way creature specials work.
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted December 28, 2023 09:18 PM |
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Well, there is also the fact that there is basically no expertise scaling (just 25 hp, like a single medusa ) see here
"Humanoids" is not a real H3 category of creatures, and it would be contentious anyways (are nagas humanoids? Are harpies? What about troglodytes?).
But your idea about creature level is good. It may be, instead of 10 HP per spell power point, make it 50 (100 with expert magic, 75 with advanced), but divide it by creature level (so, it would be divided by 7 with highest level creatures, making it similar to current power)
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LordCameron
Famous Hero
Veteran of the Succession Wars
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posted December 28, 2023 10:02 PM |
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NimoStar said:
Dowl_Dove said:
If the current hypnotize spell lasted only for one round, it would never be cast (not that its used a lot in its current state). I don't think its possible to make it a balanced spell without significantly overhauling it.
Off topic, but how can you make changes (such as damage, round duration and mana cost) to existing spells?
Of course, the point is, Hypnotize should last only 1 round, but be WAY more powerful in regard to which creatures it can target.
Exactly. Make it a riskier, costlier, edge case blind, instead of a twice in 20 years type spell. (Although against Genies or Enchanters is an interesting idea as Phoenix said.)
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What are Homm Songs based on?
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BrandochDaha
Hired Hero
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posted December 29, 2023 02:58 PM |
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Maybe Hypnotize is not that rarely used. I've seen quite a few 1 hero final fights that involved hypno, usually for getting speed priority or just for blocking the castle gates.
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thecastrated
Famous Hero
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posted December 29, 2023 06:05 PM |
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Oh ya mean you control other genie they can cast beneficial health spells on yourself? When you click yourself it won’t attack?
Also if you control his the faster unit you can use spells during that turn? No idea precisely because it is seldom used.
Or, say, can you hypnosis his pit lords, which usually isn’t too many, then raise his dead units as your demons?
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thecastrated
Famous Hero
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posted December 29, 2023 06:21 PM |
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Also hypnotise AA then resurrect your own is it possible. How about Orge Magi to cast blood lust on your self. Or does Hydra attack own side too? Dang so wish I have my comp to test
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thecastrated
Famous Hero
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posted December 29, 2023 06:53 PM |
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HeymlicH said:
NimoStar said:
Of course, the point is, Hypnotize should last only 1 round, but be WAY more powerful in regard to which creatures it can target.
You could also go the other way: Make it strong but it only works on a certain group of units. Humanoids come to mind.
Or maybe make it less efficient against high tier units, similar to the way creature specials work.
Creature specials are less efficient against higher tier? True?
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BrandochDaha
Hired Hero
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posted December 29, 2023 07:09 PM |
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I guess the most often seen example would be to hypno the fastest creature of opp if it is faster than you own (e.g., you have Archangels and opp has Phoenixex), thus you get first move in a turn and thus first cast in a turn.
Here is a somewhat different example I found:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KltUYZmVhOU
The final fight starts at ~25 minute mark.
No idea about the other questions, though.
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Barbuta
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 30, 2023 03:06 PM |
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Edited by Barbuta at 15:25, 30 Dec 2023.
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thecastrated said:
Oh ya mean you control other genie they can cast beneficial health spells on yourself? When you click yourself it won’t attack?
Yes you can.
thecastrated said:
Also if you control his the faster unit you can use spells during that turn? No idea precisely because it is seldom used.won’t attack?
Yes you can.
thecastrated said:
Or, say, can you hypnosis his pit lords, which usually isn’t too many, then raise his dead units as your demons?
This does not work as you can only use the creature ability on yourself so you can't raise his dead stacks as your own demons but you can raise your dead stacks as demon with his hypnotized pit lords
thecastrated said:
Also hypnotise AA then resurrect your own is it possible.
Yes you can, here is an example - link
thecastrated said:
How about Orge Magi to cast blood lust on your self.
Yes
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Author of The Barbutilion Part 1 - War of the 7 Realms and The Barbutilion Part 2 - Leon's Redemption and The Barbutilion Part 3 - To be announced soon 
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thecastrated
Famous Hero
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posted December 30, 2023 03:17 PM |
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Why the AA just stood still for so long before final hypnosis? It was hypnotists before? And if this is not final battle why not resurrect three Pegasus instead of only one
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