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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 30, 2025 12:32 PM |
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Penalty appeal
Hey guys. I'm not sure if we have a case of a rogue mod on the loose or something (/jk), but I just go penalized pretty much out of nowhere for what I reckon is quite a trivial thing? I don't exactly see where this treatment is coming from or why I deserve it, but I doubt it's from a place of fairness. I got no warnings, no messages, no complaints, nothing. All's well and then slammed. Anyway, the post in question is this one: Link
I'll leave a pic if you don't want to go there.
So here Galaad claims I'm breaking rule 1 and 6, but I fail to see what insult he's referring to. I'm also not trying to aggravate Mvass or anyone else for that matter, but rather agree with him and give my honest take related to what he's asking. I mean, I know some of my posts are rather critical and may feel unsympathetic especially in disagreements, but I trust that's not enough grounds for a straight up penalty? I think that's at least a little bit harsh, if not undue.
I'm not sure, maybe the controversy got the better of him for a moment there. I know he doesn't often agree with or like my opinions, but.. how is that an offense? It's funny timing also, because after seeing how he awards people he agrees with recently I stared thinking how being an active poster in the OE threads, promoting conversations and trying to give good analysis was enough of a thankless job as is, but now I have a penalty to show for all that time and effort?
Yea, so, not feeling that happy about it. I don't want this penalty to stick because that would be too much of a slap in the face. I invite others to throw in their two cents. Tell me what I'm missing here.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted August 30, 2025 03:20 PM |
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I think that pushes way too far the boundaries of correct posts and hope Galaad will realize how honorable he will look by stepping back on this.
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Era II mods and utilities
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted August 30, 2025 05:33 PM |
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Yep, fair is fair, all of us have written much harsher things than this. It’s not even aimed at a specific person.
I think, it would be clearer coming from me, since it’s no secret Stevie and I arent each other’s favorite buddy here. This really seems like a penalty out of the blue. I cant even pinpoint what part seemed offensive.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted August 30, 2025 06:51 PM |
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I don't like getting involved in drama and I do remember MM's penalty sprees with fondness, but I have to chime in on this as well.
Yes, Stevie's general tone can be a bit aggressive at times, but not enough to warrant a penalty. Especially not this specific post. It wasn't aimed at any person (member of HC or otherwise), but rather at the company developing the new Heroes game. And while it was speculative and critical, it was not offensive in any way.
I understand that with OSM being on life support, there isn't much to penalize around here, but this was a weird choice.
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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LordCameron
Famous Hero
Veteran of the Succession Wars
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posted August 31, 2025 02:16 AM |
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I did think it was a bit weird awarding Gnomes that QP recently. Like it wasn't a bad post, but there has been far better which haven't gotten the same treatment. Like didn't fHeroes not get recognized for months? I'm trying to remember the specific case.
It might just be Galaad having a bit of fun with mod power, but as is clear by Stevie here, those stars do matter to some people.
On the note of what happened, I think Galaad's point of contention is the line "It's not an honest attempt", which is a pretty harsh thing to say, but given all the language and cultural barriers here I tend to gloss over that kind of thing.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 31, 2025 12:30 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 14:02, 31 Aug 2025.
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Thank you everyone, I really appreciate each reply you made so far, I truly do. And dare I admit they come as somewhat of a pleasant surprise? A part of me had resigned to the idea that some opinions would be driven by popularity points, but I'm glad to see that's not the case. It's very reassuring and I'm grateful to you all.
Come to think of it, I'm not sure how many of you visit the OE side of the forum, but I assume some of the context might be lost here for those who don't. I should help with that. I know Geny does go there and posts sometimes, and LordCameron is a regular and I think he's up to speed with the state of things, so I hope there's at least someone who can confirm what I'm about to say. I'll use LordCameron's post to build on something he brought up:
LordCameron said:
I did think it was a bit weird awarding Gnomes that QP recently. Like it wasn't a bad post, but there has been far better which haven't gotten the same treatment. Like didn't fHeroes not get recognized for months? I'm trying to remember the specific case.
Simply put, quality posts are not getting awarded. There's a grand total of 3 posts on all OE boards that got an award, and before this week that number had been 1 for an entire year. While such scarcity indicates an issue all on its own, I can attest to the fact that it's not because no quality posts were made, but rather because they're not recognized. And I do realize the broader context of this old forum, but OE is on the more active side since it's about an up and coming Heroes game. There are many participants, a constant stream of updates, no shortage of controversy, and rewards are lackluster despite those vectors of activity, which is puzzling. It feels like there's no will to take advantage of this perfect storm and promote quality posting. So there's more to it than that.
First, while admitting in advance that it is hard to describe what quality is and what a standard for it should look like, if those 3 posts set the bar, then just by comparison there should have been dozens, if not hundreds of other posts awarded by now. I'd still think that would be fair to say even if the bar made more sense (though not for hundreds of posts), yet the reality of things stands different even from that. We are very far off the mark. And yes, I could argue that some of my posts were good candidates and could have made the cut, but this is not just about me, it's about everyone posting quality and receiving no encouragement for it. To give an example, look at the thread for the Sylvan faction, which given how controversial it turned out to be it spawned a variety of very, very good posts on all sides, but nevertheless got no award in 14 pages. To me this clearly suggests that there's an issue here, one of complacency which hangs like a cloud all over the OE board.
Second, it happens that 2 of the 3 posts that got an award were made just recently and as a direct reply to me. Then shortly after, I myself got penalized. I suppose we could chalk it up to mere coincidence, but the timing and flippant nature of it could also indicate a trend forming that is not quite about rewarding quality, but rather about picking sides and playing favorites. Granted, it has always been that way to some extent, just as much as it has always had some boundaries I'd argue, spoken or unspoken. And while this could have had only a positive spin with none of the negative - albeit a very amusing one at my expense, because imagine simply being quoted bringing people awards  - it's gone further than that when came the penalty. I still somehow hope that's not the case, but it makes sense and if it is, then this is all very concerning and sets a very bad example. If awards and penalties become tools for picking winners and losers in arguments, then not only is that by itself unfair, it would also lead to people not on the "right" side feeling disenfranchised and prevented from posting their genuine opinions. Thus slowly but surely this place would devolve into an echo chamber. I don't believe anyone wants that to happen and we're not in any immediate danger of getting there, but we should still flag cases where things start toeing or crossing the line when we see them. It's a healthy exercise for the forum in the long run.
As for me personally, well... Right now I'm feeling a bit marginalized and that saps away at my desire to post. But you guys gave me some hope that things could turn around. I'm sure it will all go away and I will feel much better once the penalty is lifted, so for now I'm in wait and see mode. Please do continue commenting however until that call is made.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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Lub4os4
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 31, 2025 01:47 PM |
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That penalty really seemed a bit weird, altho i am quite new to the forum, so i might be wrong on that. Imo nothing there was really offensive or hostile to anyone and was quite frankly flabbergasted seeing the penalty.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 31, 2025 02:11 PM |
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Here's an idea: if I were to plug this thread over there where I got the penalty for more people to see the appeal on this side of the forum (which they might not know of) just so that anyone there can come here and give their thoughts, would that be considered escalation? I suggest it could add more transparency, both to us here and to them there.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted August 31, 2025 02:20 PM |
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As the issuing moderator, I’m recusing from this appeal; it’s been forwarded to the admin/modsquad for review.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 01, 2025 08:58 AM |
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Since I have not been advised one way or the other with regards to my suggestion above, I have made a reply in that thread inviting people here, taking a non-escalatory and neutral stance. I explained the reasons above. I believe people have the right to know, and should they decide to come here and contribute, things would only stand to benefit from the added clarity. I also believe I have a right of reply in the same thread where the events have transpired. It is also to alleviate any concerns that too many people on the outside of that space have currently replied, and not that many people directly involved there. In other words, what I am pursuing with this is transparency and fairness.
But if anyone feels there is anything to object to, please do so.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted September 01, 2025 10:23 AM |
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You're escalating things. An error obviously occurred, you will be credited with one star, why not be patient instead of bringing the mob.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 01, 2025 03:13 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 15:18, 01 Sep 2025.
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MurlocAggroB
Known Hero
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posted September 01, 2025 07:45 PM |
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I think the problem is this part:
Quote:
Many people feel something's amiss, but want this to be their new favorite Heroes so desperately that they're willingly turning a blind eye and cheering them on.
You're dismissing arguments by ascribing an ulterior motive to your opponent, creating a false narrative and arguing against that instead of engaging with what's actually being said. That's fallacious rhetoric. You've basically created a scenario where everyone actually secretly agrees with you but they only say they don't because of an unrelated reason, which you don't have any proof for. That's not cool. I got reprimanded for doing the same thing in the Sylvan thread.
Now, I still don't think you deserved a star loss for that. I didn't get one. In in the interest of fairness, it should be restored. It's also important however to note what the actual problem was.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted September 02, 2025 04:26 AM |
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Aha.. I don't understand in strong English or hearing style language speaks outrageous something.. LoL
At least G aka Galaad understood Stevie isn't irresponsible..
Ok guys, I think that if HC doesn't use a QP (thus meaningless or what) for wusses can send a hundreds of forbidden pics or outrageous posts after wusses leave the HC.. So much better is only penalty, HC uses 3 warnings, if member doesn't listen, and HC gives entry ban.. And then a new QP means member knows about Heroes things like mod, fact, etc, so it never removed, only disregard member gets entry ban, but his/her knowings will stayed in here, (thus some read his/her avatar and profile).. A good thought, but realization is impossible, if you are brainy to ask someone sends hundreds of pics or virus links from another country, for example.. And member is still here..
We are body (human), no one cool, sincerity, etc But we try be better..
In the future innocent people go to the jail.. An example of Finland planned outrageous drug crime, etc goes to the jail in only some tell, etc And then hearing (inquisition) can see liar or not, and if liar, he/she goes to the jail.. Thus they have a proof from some.. SCI-FI like movie can see Stevie (innocent or not), but today the world goes to strict.. When war, murder, rape, violent, steal, etc causes the world is tired..
Ok maybe I'm a crazy, thus I drank beers, spirits in 3 days.. And I wake up in 3 hours ago, ok.. I've a funny to write this thread..
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted September 02, 2025 04:46 AM |
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At Galaad’s request I reviewed the penalty and we discussed this particular incident as well as the larger context around it. I also noted the reasoned opinions and the degree of self-restraint shown in this thread.
This penalty will be reversed and converted to a warning and a request.
Going forward we ask that you refrain from posting statements that attribute or imply negative motives or character to game developers. This is distinct from posting valid criticism of or personal opinion on game development decisions.
For example something like: I don’t like that despite homage to NWC’s lore the creature lineup is very different from the previous games. I would prefer a closer match to the original creature line-ups because I see the most value in this game being more of a refined remake rather than a completely new chapter. The innovation could then be focused on improving the gameplay elements and multiplayer which would make the game more successful. In my opinion this would be a better direction. Do you guys agree?
This example expresses a personal opinion about specific game design choices without suggesting that devs are dishonest. It also makes it clear that this is a personal opinion and asks others about their opinions instead of speaking for them or implying what they think but are not saying.
The larger context is that we have a forum that is actively visited by the developers of the upcoming game. This is an asset to HC because our members and visitors can get fresh news directly from the source, have their suggestions and opinions read and considered by the devs and can even engage in some direct Q&A with the team that is making the game. If our forum starts developing a negative tone towards the devs (this is distinct from critiquing specific development choices, explaining why, proposing reasoned alternatives) then devs will not want to visit and may even stop doing so. We don’t want HC to be a place where devs come to defend themselves or see what the next negative accusation is. This is a request about the general trend in some of your posting - we ask that you phrase your feedback mindfully and avoid contributing to creating this kind of environment at HC. If ever in doubt, you can always run something past Gal first and ask for input on a most constructive way to get a challenging piece of feedback across. We want to have your input and contributions, just without creating a negative atmosphere for the devs.
To sum it up, let’s make HC a place where the game development is discussed constructively - opinions expressed on specific design choices, criticism well reasoned, better alternatives proposed, other members invited to speak for themselves.
Galaad will follow up as the acting moderator.
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You can wait for others to do it, but if they don't know how, you'll wait forever.
Be an example of what you want to see on HC and in the world.
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted September 02, 2025 08:25 AM |
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Edited by Galaad at 08:28, 02 Sep 2025.
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Apologies Stevie, I went too strong by issuing a penalty here. Per the MSHQ review it’s now a formal warning, which I agree is the right outcome. That one’s on me.
Expectation going forward is clear: critique the work (gameplay, units, sources/lore, art...), not motives or honesty. Thanks to everyone for keeping it constructive.
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purerogue3
Famous Hero
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posted September 02, 2025 04:54 PM |
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There's a an obvious loophole to the "questioning motives" or anti-bad faith callout rule which is that it immunizes trolling or dishonest behaviour - something I noticed in off-topic discussions.
I am not asking for a ban on off-topic.
I am also sure I will regret opening my mouth on this issue. 
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 02, 2025 06:16 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 18:21, 02 Sep 2025.
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Apology accepted, and thank you for reverting the penalty. I appreciate how this was solved rather quickly.
With regards to the statement going forward, I do have some thoughts, but I reckon that should be the topic of another thread. This one was for the appeal and in that it has served its purpose.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted September 03, 2025 12:31 AM |
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Edited by Corribus at 00:33, 03 Sep 2025.
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Only thing I'll add publicly is that I appreciate the way you handled getting a penalty you didn't feel you deserved, Stevie.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted September 06, 2025 12:19 AM |
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Edited by Valeriy at 00:19, 06 Sep 2025.
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This matter is resolved - closing thread. The other discussion continues in another thread.
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