| Do you approve of abortion? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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phe
Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
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posted January 08, 2026 10:01 PM |
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artu said:
JollyJoker said:
Quote:
fetus, baby, child, man feel pain and death the same way...
Animals feel pain and dying as well.
His claim is wrong. A fetus in a legal abortion phase doesnt feel any pain or has any awareness of death. Their neural system isnt that developed yet. A comparison to animals with sentience is therefore flawed. They are more like microorganisms regarding this.
awareness doesn't matter...pain comes as any nerve occures...being dies aware or not...what is an awareness of a baby?
a man killed in sleep or when being frozen doesn't have awareness too...
a newborn mouse smaller than 1 cm size nad feels pain and death the same like you...similar fells man of bean/mouse size...
awareness is artificial concept created for purpose of justifing practices same as babykilling...
ohhh you can talk, you can think, but failing in basic honesty and manners...
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phe
Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
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posted January 08, 2026 10:19 PM |
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Edited by phe at 22:26, 08 Jan 2026.
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JollyJoker said:
That's quasi-religious nonsense.
About fetusses and them feeling pain - yeah, nervous system isn't developed enough before the 24th week or so for that - that seems to be the current understanding.
a quasi-religious populist nonsense is giving bad people equal rights and treating them as something worthy(making them slaves indeed)... and implementation of some of their habits hurting others...
how bad people can be we can everywhere...
mouse size fetus feels the same like a baby...
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted January 09, 2026 12:46 AM |
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I think you’re confused. Pain is a form of awareness. Your nerves percieve an input and signal that to your brain. That is what pain is, a signal that something is happening. Of course, babies are aware of pain, if you stick a needle to them, they will cry. If you stick a needle to a sleeping person hard enough, they will wake up. Abortion stage fetuses dont have a nervous system and brain yet, developed enough to process such signals. They are like plants or bacteria. When you carve a tree, does it hurt? If I chop your head off and then stick a needle in your arm, will your arm hurt? A fetus is not a sentient being yet. That is what determines the deadline for legal abortions: sentience. That’s why you cant abort a 7 month old baby but you can abort a 3 week one.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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phe
Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
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posted January 09, 2026 05:53 AM |
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Edited by phe at 08:05, 09 Jan 2026.
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artu said:
I think you’re confused. Pain is a form of awareness. Your nerves percieve an input and signal that to your brain. That is what pain is, a signal that something is happening. Of course, babies are aware of pain, if you stick a needle to them, they will cry. If you stick a needle to a sleeping person hard enough, they will wake up. Abortion stage fetuses dont have a nervous system and brain yet, developed enough to process such signals. They are like plants or bacteria. When you carve a tree, does it hurt? If I chop your head off and then stick a needle in your arm, will your arm hurt? A fetus is not a sentient being yet. That is what determines the deadline for legal abortions: sentience. That’s why you cant abort a 7 month old baby but you can abort a 3 week one.
Fetus has nerves and central nerve system in protobrain spine combination...so feel pain...even if still not... it's new human being, having mother, father, determined sex and many other features...developes rapidly...it will start feel in couple of days...
Results of researches saying that fetus doesn't feel are corrupted and made by bad people...
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 09, 2026 09:19 AM |
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If that was the case, it was really a pity because
Quote:
It is widely accepted that natural human embryo mortality is high, particularly during the first weeks after fertilisation, with total prenatal losses of 70%.
That's from the US National Institues of Health in 2017.
Which means, nature itself has an abortion quota of 70%. Which would in turn mean that nature itself - and that's probably God for you - was pretty corrupted and bad.
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phe
Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
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posted January 09, 2026 10:34 AM |
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JollyJoker said:
If that was the case, it was really a pity because
Quote:
It is widely accepted that natural human embryo mortality is high, particularly during the first weeks after fertilisation, with total prenatal losses of 70%.
That's from the US National Institues of Health in 2017.
Which means, nature itself has an abortion quota of 70%. Which would in turn mean that nature itself - and that's probably God for you - was pretty corrupted and bad.
Until 100-150 years ago half of the children died before adult age because of not developed medicine...
Now we can minimize prenatal losses if proper technologies are introduced...
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 09, 2026 12:33 PM |
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I'm afraid you don't understand the "problem" here. It means that 70% of fertilized eggs simply don't make it. They are flushed out. It's like sperm on their way to the egg. all except one die - and often all die. Awomen has, what, 300 ovaries, on average. Maybe 10 are fertilized , randomly or willingly, but out of those 10 seven are flushed out after a couple of weeks, 4 or so, and then they are left wift 3 pregnancies. If you abort one of those because you are 41, thought that things was over, and then prefer an abortion, because you already have 2 pretty grown children - what's wrong with that?
I mean, there are other cases, where women that age thought it was a miracle and went with it, readily.
Just leave it to THEM, it's none of your business, not the embryo, not the fetus. You could make a born baby that isn't wanted, your issue, but I guess that's where the care for life stops.
So just stop calling these people bad and corrupted - it's you (and not only you) who is utterly misguided.
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phe
Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
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posted January 09, 2026 12:57 PM |
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It's natural process like death of born one...it's not abortion... death because of disease or poor medicine of newborn is not babykilling...if half of fetuses dies natural doesnt mean you can abort thise living...if half if babies dies natural it doesn't mean you can kill living one..
Because of medicine 99% of newborn surive nowadays...with modern or future medicine 99% of fetuses will survive...and it should be implemented in no time...
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted January 09, 2026 03:01 PM |
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You (phe) talk too little, you talk the same thing over and over.. We are waiting for more discussion in fact, experienced in life, opinion, and so etc.. SNOW English, I rarely use a translator.. Ok just 300 ovaries, when I read that is only one mature egg.. So it will broken, and "blood" comes, you call menstrual.. Immature egg can pregnant, but not potent.. Yeah I also don't used in translator, but I hit only one mature egg often.. If you think about twins, so egg splitted or egg has shell, it protects from polyspermy (too many sperm to fertilization), so sperms have succeeded to pass the protective layer.. But rarely event, and today evolution seems twins, etc are increased comparison earlier dozens years, they called evolution..
@phe it's an example.. Ok no problem, practice makes master..
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JollyJoker
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Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 09, 2026 05:35 PM |
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@ phe
Nonsense. Not the same thing. 70% embryos going down the drain (mostly even without hoticing it specifically as that), means, that this is pretty much a natural occurance. More embryos die than are growing to become a born baby. Infants dying isn't natural, in most cases not even unfortunate. It's mostly the result of factors like malnutrition, premature birth, male favoritism (India) and so on. In Japan 22 of 10000 Infants die. However, it would be 7000 of 10.000 Emybryos, and that has nothing to do with medicine.
Losingan embryo is natural and just happens, even without people realizing. Losing a baby isn't natural at all.
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Pol
Known Hero
.^.
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posted January 09, 2026 06:43 PM |
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phe said:
It's natural process like death of born one...it's not abortion... death because of disease or poor medicine of newborn is not babykilling...if half of fetuses dies natural doesnt mean you can abort thise living...if half if babies dies natural it doesn't mean you can kill living one..
Because of medicine 99% of newborn surive nowadays...with modern or future medicine 99% of fetuses will survive...and it should be implemented in no time...
That sounds surreal. Like if someone is wanna play life of others on the God's mode?
Death is always equal and fair. For these who died doesn't matter when, if on illness or being shot. It's final.
You can't just drag the fetus out of the woman womb. People are neither gods nor mere machines. There are many reasons why normal delivery is the best for everyone and you seemingly didn't consider any. As well there are reasons for abortion, many of them life saving.
In your eyes the world would be full of dead girls (perhaps formally alive) and unhappy fetuses. It's probably better to not to imagine such a nightmare.
The rate is wrong, 99% fetuses won't survive, it's much lower. And you want people to live not the fetuses to survive. To hint you this depends on the week. Additionally some newborns might die later, within first two months. This rate is fortunately very low.
Implemented in no time is merely a figure of speech. From God's perspective it's ok, because what is one second for a God? But it might also means one thousand years for humanity. We are not here, evidently neither mentally.
Also it would be good to note, that your "stats" is getting partially relevant only for the West states, which is not majority of the world.
You are juggling with images and lacking the idea what these really are.
Living in the world full of sterile people, it's current most likely end of this your vision.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted January 09, 2026 07:12 PM |
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I don't see where Phe is wrong, all he says is modern medicine ensures the overwhelming majority of babies/fetuses survive now and go to full 9 months then deliver. I didn't see anything else there and he is right, on the data level.
For me what is surreal is JJ's argument, that mother nature anyway kills them at 70% (which is wrong data btw, he didn't read the article till the end) so abortion should not matter. By that logic, people over 70 yo have low chance to survive under natural conditions, so let's get rid of them instead of having family going through the uncomfortable period of taking care and losing precious time.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 09, 2026 07:41 PM |
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He's wrong because even with the reduced ESTIMATION of 10-25% (and I doubt you fully read the article), he's a "embryo suffers pain from dying" type, and 10-25% NATURALLY being aborted is still WAY too high if that is the case. It's certainly A LOT more than those that are lost to abortions. And medicine doesn't help here, because that loss occurs mostly before the realization that something like an embryo has been "occured".
I repeat that fetusses and embryos are basically none of your business. It's like you'd demand to have a say in how people sspend their money.
If you have a consience problem, adopt a child, period.
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phe
Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
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posted January 09, 2026 08:21 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
And medicine doesn't help here, because that loss occurs mostly before the realization that something like an embryo has been "occured".
imagine body monitoring device as a part of permanent periodic examinations of the child....
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 09, 2026 08:43 PM |
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Yes, let's women put under permanent medical observation, because you can't let natural processes happen, you just have to go back to women bearing 20 children.
You can bet your ass that under these circumstances no sane woman would agree to have sex with a man UNLESS they wanted a child NOW.
Of course, rape numbers would skyrocket then - also we'd probaby see a lot of operations to make it impossible for men and women to have children at all.
mean - are you out of your mind? Back to 18th century or so?
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted January 09, 2026 08:44 PM |
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JJ is right, I read already.. Thus pregnancy has 8 or 9 different types, it after deeper topic.. An example of lupus [and] pregnancy.. The next matter is sperm faults, etc But you don't know that is egg prevents imcomplete sperm, etc but yes in event, imcomplete sperm passed egg's protective layers, etc But result is pregnancy.. In many pregnant risks have found in the world, when I said handicapped religion, and other etc Read first page again.. And women choose a life and death matter, women know well, pregnancy is a very dangerous too.. But we can imagine JJ says it compare tobacco.. Right?! Yes we trust in medicine, obstetrics, etc
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phe
Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
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posted January 09, 2026 09:13 PM |
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Edited by phe at 21:33, 09 Jan 2026.
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JollyJoker said:
Yes, let's women put under permanent medical observation, because you can't let natural processes happen, you just have to go back to women bearing 20 children.
You can bet your ass that under these circumstances no sane woman would agree to have sex with a man UNLESS they wanted a child NOW.
Of course, rape numbers would skyrocket then - also we'd probaby see a lot of operations to make it impossible for men and women to have children at all.
mean - are you out of your mind? Back to 18th century or so?
natural process without oversee allows to kill each other by clubs in the cave and eat each oter...
modern medicine technology allows to:
-resque embryos
-to block sperm on the way to egg
-select proper sperm to reach target
many good women had born many children and were happy about it...
today rasing children should be easier...
getting rid of these stupid schools, hordes of politician, non-productive red-tape personel and military, all of unnecessary state spendings...
introducing free education from computers and ai(without taxes and state's spendings on it)...
introducing cheap housing by allowing to transform tax-donated farm fields into camping parks....
introducing antigravity to housing purpose to live in hovering houses just above forests and fields...
introducing cheap factory produced houses to be easily transported by antigravity and teleportation way to the place of destination...
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 09, 2026 10:10 PM |
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Someonw, give me strength, please ...
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted January 09, 2026 11:48 PM |
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Why? I like the antigravity houses hovering over the fields. My generation was promised flying cars by 2015 in Back to the Future 2. The least they can do is a hovering house.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted January 10, 2026 01:13 AM |
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Edited by Ghost at 04:48, 10 Jan 2026.
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Yeah! I gave example for lupus [and] pregnancy, phe doesn't listen. Utopia?
EDIT
You are definitely sleeping.. So the brain is preparing the abortion matter, thus you dream about phe, artu, Ghost, sal, pol, when who are here the most? Ok I tried to talk, so I built your move, but no one wants to trap.. 8 or 9 pregnancy types include
A high-risk pregnancy means increased chances of health problems for the parent or baby, caused by factors like pre-existing conditions (diabetes, high blood pressure), pregnancy-related issues (preeclampsia, multiples), lifestyle choices (smoking, drugs), older or very young maternal age, or fetal complications. - Google AI
And then..
Pregnancy types vary by location, number of babies, and maternal health, with the most common being a Normal (Intrauterine) Pregnancy (fetus in the uterus). Other types include Ectopic Pregnancy (outside the uterus, often fallopian tube), Multiple Pregnancy (twins, triplets), High-Risk Pregnancy (due to age, health conditions), and rare forms like Molar Pregnancy (abnormal tissue growth) or Intra-abdominal Pregnancy (fetus in the abdomen). - Google AI
I've lexes them.. And we haven't a artifical womb, so realism in the present.. My ex-GF told me about lupus pregnancy, so she says to put in the dictiönäry, but I forgot the whole thing, and I hit a word, now I remember that is important word.. And lupus pregnancy also talked in my ex-school..
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