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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: Good tricks to use
Thread: Good tricks to use This thread is 10 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 · «PREV / NEXT»
Delfontes
Delfontes


Known Hero
Sorcerer Extraordinaire
posted November 05, 2003 04:53 PM

I have a tip for fighting a fairly powerful stack of ranged units with a mid level hero, and no army.

This can be very useful against neutral guard stacks.

For this strategy you need 1st level nature magic, which isn't that hard to get at all.  Second level is better, but not a requirement.

What you do is simply attack them, and summon sprites.  75% of the time the sprites will be right in front of you, so the bad arse range unit will need to shoot it to get to you.

That wastes a shot, next turn repeat.  The reason you are summoning sprites is because they are fairly fast, and you can move them if they don't appear right in front of you.

If you're feeling really lucky, you can summon Leprachans, and have them cast luck on you before they get shot (depends on speed of the range stack), Satyr's are a great way to get yourself mirth as well.

Using this tactic the stack will eventually run out of ammo (forget this tactic on area of effect Cyclopse or Medusa unlimited ammo).

At this point you can start shooting, or use quicksand etc. to do a lot of damage before it gets to you. If any satyr/leprachan survives, use them to absorb retaliation, and finish it off in melee where most range units do half damage.



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dushan
dushan


Hired Hero
posted November 05, 2003 05:15 PM

a little addition to previous post...

raise skeletons even better spell for that purpose
(ranged defense 24)
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Delfontes
Delfontes


Known Hero
Sorcerer Extraordinaire
posted November 05, 2003 05:28 PM

The difficulty with raising skeletons, is that something has to be dead... and in this scenario exposing your hero to their range attack long enough to kill a few of them would be suicide.

Also, there is a slim to none chance that even skeletons will survive a shot from say, 50 ballista, 25 monks, 20 venom spawn etc. that is about the size I'm talking about here.  

The limit becomes how much damage your hero can do before they get to you, and in melee... eliminating their range attack, like a ghetto forgetfulness.  It also works on water elementals, though their slow can still be annoying if they choose to do that instead of killing your fodder.

Your fodder surviving the attack is definately not needed, or even likely, with the above tactic.
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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted November 05, 2003 09:11 PM

Great idea, I also used it. It works most of the time. But you have to be a bit lucky, cause if enemy gets morale just once, you are in trouble.

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Delfontes
Delfontes


Known Hero
Sorcerer Extraordinaire
posted November 05, 2003 10:05 PM

Definately true about the moral thing there.  That is where the Saytr's come in handy... if you have second level nature magic.

Naturally the danger in summoning them and leprachans is their slow speed, so if they land in the wrong spot you could get shot...
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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
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posted November 06, 2003 09:05 PM
Edited By: csarmi on 12 Nov 2003

Getting off guards

A little trick, but it can save you a game.
If you play with stationary guards, at certain conditions, your stack can get stucked right near a neutral stack, unable to move away - though they do not attack you. All you can do then is to attack that stack. It usually happens when you fight something, but there is another one close.

Now, there is still a way to free your precious army without fighting. Move another stack right near them and click on your army with them. You get the exchange creatures menu and you drag all your creatures to the first stack. Problem solved.

Resurrection
Angels can resurrect once per battle, for 40% of their HP. This means that "n" angel can resurrect up to 92*n HP. It's always the rule, not affected by spells or damage.

1,Now everyone knows that it can greatly help you to survive battles without losses.

2, Most people also know that you can even resurrect heroes this way - 1 angel is enough it resurrect a hero.

3, Maybe not everyone knows that you can resurrect your hero even if you have no angels (or they have lost their spellpoints). Not talking about divine intervention. Talking about Animate Dead. Just animate an angel (you need dead angel for that) and resurrect with him.

Beware though! Once your animated stack gets out of spell points, you have to make a brand new stack (so gotta make 1st stack killed) to be able to cast resurrection again.

4, Resurrection can be prevented in some ways though. First, you can place a stack on the corpse. A stack of summoned sprites for example. Second, you can drop a vial of acid on the corpse, destroying it. Third, you can cast necromancy ward, stopping all animate spells for the duration of combat. The fifth one is the funniest. It actually happened to me. I have cast Animate Dead on the angels and the animated stack appeared right on my hero which I wanted to resurrect :-)


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Delfontes
Delfontes


Known Hero
Sorcerer Extraordinaire
posted November 12, 2003 04:36 PM

Quote:
Beware though! Once your animated stack gets out of spell points, you have to make a brand new stack (so gotta make 1st stack killed) to be able to cast resurrection again.


I haven't tried it with angels... but when you summon water elementals, you can refill their spellpoints just by summoning more.  

So summon skills work differently than animate spells?


Here is a nasty trick that people probably have already done playing undead.  

A hero with 3rd level death magic can kill pretty much any stack of single living creatures using this.

First, cast fatigue, then poison, and plague.

Naturally the stack is moving fairly slow.  With some units, that's it... just move around the battlefield until they all die, 200 rounds or more later.  Stay out of their range and eventually the plague/poison combo will kill hundreds of high level units.

With other creatures they are still moving a bit too fast to run safe circles around, so when the first one dies, summon a ghost.  Have the ghost attack, and viola they are moving extremely slowly .

It is a good idea to also cast Sorrow on them to ensure they don't get a lucky moral boost.

The only major problem are stacks with first strike that move fast (champions, nomads etc.).  Slow isn't enough for them, and a single ghost isn't going to do anything except get killed.

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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted November 12, 2003 05:02 PM

Your aging will have no additional effect.

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Delfontes
Delfontes


Known Hero
Sorcerer Extraordinaire
posted November 12, 2003 05:51 PM

Wanna bet?

I just did this last night, slow and fatigue don't stack.

Aging either stacks, or is just a whole lot better, because they slow down substantially, try it.
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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted November 12, 2003 06:30 PM

Not following you? You want to say that if you cast slow and fatigue, target will move by 1/4 speed?
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Delfontes
Delfontes


Known Hero
Sorcerer Extraordinaire
posted November 12, 2003 06:45 PM

No, I tested that, cast slow, then fatigue will have absolutely no effect.  

They don't stack at all.  That does annoy me, because in my mind they should stack, as they do different things.    

Aging does slow them more though.  I am not where I can read the description, so I don't know if it is stacking, or if aging is just a more effective way of slowing things down.

Basically I killed a stack of 100+ unicorns with my 15th level assassin (his extra speed does help).  Fatiging got the unicorns to 4/4 movement/speed, Aging put them at a very manageable 2/2.  I cast sorrow, and circled.

So I don't know if aging just makes things move at 1/4th speed, or if it stacked on top of fatigue which had halved their speed.

On Satyrs after this treatment they were 1/1, as slow as possible... that same hero killed over 400 of those buggers (though I needed sorrow x 3 to override his moral to start).


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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
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posted November 12, 2003 09:59 PM

Fatigue and slow is the same, so is speed and haste. The only difference is that there exists mast speed and mass slow.

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Delfontes
Delfontes


Known Hero
Sorcerer Extraordinaire
posted November 12, 2003 10:10 PM

Yes, effectively.  I was saying that slow and fatigue do differnt things, one makes you tired, the other slows you down, so in my opinion, they should stack.  That wasn't implying that they do stack.

That doesn't change the fact that my trick above does work, and can slow down even fairly fast units enough to slowly watch them die.


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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted November 13, 2003 07:33 AM
Edited By: csarmi on 13 Nov 2003

So - agings stacks with slow/fatigue.

For stacks with first strike - first strike can be avoided by moving neyt to them ion the end of one turn and attacking in the next one. First strike has effect only if the attacker moves before attack.
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Delfontes
Delfontes


Known Hero
Sorcerer Extraordinaire
posted November 13, 2003 04:22 PM

Most things with first strike will move before the ghosts anyhow, killing them before they have a chance.

Anyhow, this is turning into a discussion thread, hehe, I'll try to wait until I have another tip to add to it again.

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hunnawunna
hunnawunna

Tavern Dweller
posted November 20, 2003 04:10 PM

Quote:

3, He won't lose too much turns. If there is a sanctuary near, hero alive. If not, he jut chains his hero home (as an artifact), and the hero is alive with full HP to rejoin the army.


I allways put 1 lev1 unit in every sanctuary I come across.
They give the extra scouting range around it and because they can't be attacked they prevent it's use by the enemy.
A no brainer for me.
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dale
dale


Known Hero
posted November 20, 2003 06:39 PM

This may have been said before, but it is a trick that can make a big difference against powerful spell casters.

Send a bunch of cheap troops against them one at a time.  Often the spell caster AI is stupid enough to cast some spell even though they could blast the troop without any cost.  After a while, their spell points are exhausted and you can move in with your main troups.

I just used this in the might campaign and had my single might hero (Mongo) wipe out a bunch of level 16 heros.  I was able to completely deplete the spell points of the most bothersome enemy (the one who kept casting divine intervention when I killed the other heros) and reduce the spell points on some other ones.
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Delfontes
Delfontes


Known Hero
Sorcerer Extraordinaire
posted November 20, 2003 07:51 PM

I think we should keep non-tips out of this discussion .  Including my own on last page, hehe

Dale, I do find that on expert at least, the computer will usually walk forward rather than cast on a very weak stack... but sometimes that tactic will work .

Filling sanctuaries is a great idea, I haven't played many human opponents so I haven't thought much about that.

Ok, for my tip:

This is just a basic one, but if you have a large army you should have a scout to increase the army's movement and remove all movement penalties.  That scout can leave the army, sneak close to a stack to get the exp, then rejoin the army and attack for extra experience.

(if that was mentioned previously, whoops, forgot to read the thread again)

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dale
dale


Known Hero
posted November 21, 2003 06:28 AM

Quote:
This is just a basic one, but if you have a large army you should have a scout to increase the army's movement and remove all movement penalties.  That scout can leave the army, sneak close to a stack to get the exp, then rejoin the army and attack for extra experience.



I will almost always develop a scout, usually a thief.  They are great in the mid-game for stealing resources while going solo, and in the end game for giving movement to the group.

However, I thought I read that one of the patches fixed what some thought was a bug with thief credit for sneaking up next to a neutral stack -- with the result that the thief gets no more credit doing what you suggest than he/she would get by staying with the main attacking force.

Wonder if anyone can confirm or deny this -- or say what really happens?
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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted November 23, 2003 09:19 PM



I allways put 1 lev1 unit in every sanctuary I come across.
They give the extra scouting range around it and because they can't be attacked they prevent it's use by the enemy.
A no brainer for me.


Definitely not a bad idea, but it costs 200 gold per turn what can be much.
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