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| Thread: Should Heroes Fight ? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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thunderknight
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 29, 2001 05:55 AM |
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Hi, all,
It is happy to see all your replies. Some of very interesting points there.
Ironied, yes, it is definitely possible to have heroes from both ends die together. A simple amargeddon or any other area damaging spells can do the trick. The summon elemental trick will do it as well. In h3, the heroes just disappear together with the artifacts. Maybe it will still be the case in h4.
Some ideas just come out for me:-
In a battle, if your hero is nearly got killed, you can have the following options:
a). Just kill him, I'm going to dismiss him anyway. 
b). don't kill him, I'll pay you some $$$ to get him back.
c). you can try to retreat only the hero (the % of success depends on the relative strength of armies remained in the battle field, or maybe some specialty e.g. logistic will increase the %). If retreat successfully, hero appears in the tavern of nearest town. If retreat fails, hero got caught by enemy ! (and if your side wins, he can go back, otherwise...........see next. 
You may just choose to surrender when you think you are going to lose anyway just like in h3. But this time, apart from accept your surrender and take $$$ or decline your surrender, your opponent can choose to accept your surrender AND not return your hero !!! Then the hero will be held by the enemy......
Then there should be a bribe-hero function (originated from SirDunco's idea, ). You can pay some money to the hero (i.e. not to your opponent, but to God-know-where ) to pursuade him to join your side !!!! There is a factor called "loyality". Hero will change his side if loyality is below 50% (ideas come from some Japanese game e.g. Sango). Doing something bad to your hero will lower his loyality.
(e.g. make him "hit-and'run" hero and constantly flee from battles)
These ideas may make the game more complicated, but I think they can add more strategic elements into the game. What do you think about it ?
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LadyLily
Known Hero
The Iron Maiden
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posted May 29, 2001 01:11 PM |
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Just Like I Said
I just said something about a different idea, but had the same ideas once major imporvements were said to have to happen to make an idea real. No offensive to anyone or anyone thinking I'm backing out, I'm not! It's just that mayeb these ideas will kill the game that we love so much for one that we think woudl be cooler. Is it better to have one element change for the better than have the whole game just be really bad? I think not.
These ideas we are imposing are just a little too much to deal with if we want 3DO to come out with just the same good old HoMM 4 we all want. Let them do their job.
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-LadyLily
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Mordred
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 29, 2001 11:13 PM |
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Reposted from another thread...
Heroes fighting in combat can work! Personally I'm excited about this, one of the few things that does excite me about Homm4.
Here are some ideas that could make it work, I doubt ofcourse that any will be in the game... but you never know. I'm just trying to give examples on how it would be possible.
1) Just because Heroes CAN fight, doesn't mean they have to. Heroes wouldn't be all that powerful (maybe equvialent to 1 Dragon at around level 20), but they stay in the back "overseeing" the battle as in homm3. Just like homm3, they can't be attacked and don't fight... they lend their help through spells and secondary skills (I doubt that the old system of attack & defence will remain, but your "might" heroes can have up to 5 levels in offence, defence, archery, etc. This will mean that secondary "might" skills will be far more important in homm4). The diffrence is that they can ENTER the fight. Once done, they become valid targets for attacks & spells. They have to waste a turn "entering", but they can't be attacked (or attack) until the beginning of the next round. Another additional possibility would be to initate a duel with another hero, then they could only attack/be attacked by/cast spells on/have spells cast on them by the enemy hero (a duel would be between two heroes, regardless of how many there are). If all creatures are killed, then the hero has two choices... retreat or fight!
2) One shot, one kill: This is something I hope they put in, not only for heroes but for creatures too. Imagine a fight between a hero and 20 minotaurs. Well, let's say the hero is powerful enough to cut down 6-8 minotaurs in a single round... the minotaurs could kill the hero in one shot! But that isn't how it should play out, the hero can only kill 2-3 minotaurs per round regardless of the damage the hero can do... you can only swing the sword so much in a single round. Likewise, not all 20 minotaurs could attack the hero every turn... maybe a half-dozen at most. You see where this is going? This "evens" out the power diffrence between creatures more, while still giving the edge to the more powerful stack. Same thing with archers, a small stack of arches can only hit an equal number of troops. Dragons are another matter, first they're BIG (thus can be attacked my many more in a single stack), and their weapon is an area effect (hits the entire stack, regardless of numbers!). And don't go off thinking that this is too complicated, and you wouldn't want the headache... how many people really figure up all the numbers before they attack? (And if you use the little info bar, then the info can be changed to the #-# killed, thus no additional math for you). Strategy is about getting the feel, having that instintive knowledge of what to do... experience never hurts either!
3) I want to shoot that archer, but those swordsmen are in the way! Placing troops in front of a stack should at the very least interfear with missile attacks, perhaps direct spell attacks as well (the stack in front soaks up a % of the damage first)
4) Look at him dodge! Heroes should have inate magic resistance (similar to taht of dwarves + Golems) and a dodge score. Spells should have a chance of not working (just like all RPG's having "saving throws" or something like it) and damaging spells should have reduced effect (i.e., take only 50% damage). Heroes should be able to dodge a % of damage coming from missile weapons (some creatures might have this ability to, like sprites for instance)... they are heroes afterall! They don't have to be invincable, they just need an edge.
5) It's just a flesh wound. Perhaps "killed" heroes are simply unconscience and get better after a combat provided two things: their side won, and they wern't killed by another hero.
Well, that just my 2 cents... btu it can be done! If you ever played Masters of Magic, you'll know this...
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Moorleiche
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 30, 2001 07:33 PM |
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If heroes fight heroes can die! I neither want that much different heroes in that game nor a hero-creater.
-And heroes can't fight and do their magic stuff and making commands all the same time. And a hero could'nt be that powerful (did you ever see a hero killing 2 black dragons the same time????) so - what is it good for?
ML
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pluvious
Promising
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 30, 2001 09:13 PM |
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a hero can't be that powerful!!??
what do you call implosion and armageddon then? And what about them adding + 20 to attack to those goblins? Isn't that powerful?
I think we could suspend are beliefs and have heroes be more powerful than other creatures on the battlefield.
Anyway, that isn't the point. The main problem (acutally there is no problem, just something 3do must consider) is that their are stacks in the heroes game, which makes the challenge of heroes fighting in battle more complex.
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...Pluvious...
-The Storm Before the Calm-
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LadyLily
Known Hero
The Iron Maiden
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posted May 31, 2001 02:15 AM |
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Just the heroes fighting
Thinking of all the complications we have now....how about we just have a different kind of battle, where only heroes fight. Maybe in real-time, maybe in a turn-based field? If the two heros want to fight it out instead of losing their armies, they can. Then it is all a matter of wits, spells, and strength.
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-LadyLily
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thunderknight
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 31, 2001 05:33 AM |
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One-on-one ?!
Hi, all,
Ladylily, I think it's an interesting idea for people to choose to have a "hero only" fighting. e.g. Hero 1 (Iverson) and Hero 2 (Carter) leading huge armies. They can have an all-out battle but they prefer to settle things in person. So they choose to fight one-on-one.
If any one hero loses, he would be captured by the opponent and some of the loser's army will flee as well. Afterwards, you can choose to continue the fight even without hero or choose to retreat.
I think the fighting between heroes should still be turn-based. Well, after all, it's not Street Fighter or NBA.
However, one question: spell.
Maybe Carter just casts a slam dunk, ooop, no, it should be an implosion, then Iverson down.
Any ideas ?
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anfi
Known Hero
Computer Puppet
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posted May 31, 2001 10:05 AM |
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Heroes in battle rocks. it kinda adds a whole new demention to battleing, the hero isnt just a picture with a moveing arm that casts spells anymore
i personally think this is GREAT! Imagin crag hack..with 40 attack. just slicing down the titans... oh fills me with joy
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"I Don't Cheat, I Just Interview Incase The Relationship Doesn't Work Out."
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LadyLily
Known Hero
The Iron Maiden
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posted May 31, 2001 01:19 PM |
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Maybe when the heroes fight, there can be no spells cast. Of course, that would ruin the fun, right?
Well, since the heroes have better attack and defense ratings then the spells wouldn't hurt too much. Or you can just have the spells be weaker against the heroes, since they are more expierneced.
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-LadyLily
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malkia
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted February 02, 2002 02:24 PM |
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so has anyone (i)legally played the BETA - didn't find anywhere on previews saying something if
Heroes in BATTLE are bad or no.
I still have feeling that it's BAD - because i've got to used to with Heroes1,2,3
i just need my regular pills & drugs to take it on.
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Xenophanes
Promising
Famous Hero
Chief Consul to Queen Mutare
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posted February 02, 2002 08:12 PM |
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My thoughts...now where's my penny?
I think the idea of Heroes fighting in combat is wonderful. No offense, but it is a bit sad if you are still hooked on Heroes I. Yes, please use your medication.
What I find especially wonderful about Heroes fighting is that now you can create a Dungeons&Dragons map. You can set it so that the player has a certain number of Heroes to start with(e.g. Mailee, Hennet, Jozan) and cannot build creatures at their town(a Sorcerer or Mage might start with a familiar, though.) Then, the entire focus of the map is on the Heroes, going around and fighting completely on their own without any creatures(when you might have, say 20 Orcs guarding something, though, that number really couldn't exceed 5 or 6.).
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<Dragons rule, Titans drool!>
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malkia
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted February 02, 2002 11:08 PM |
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Xenophanes, I really enjoyed Heroes1, of course more with Heroes2 - actually I've enjoyed most with Heroes2 - it's probably the best game ever - when comes to fun.
But i always thought & feel Heroes more like war/strategy turn-based game, rather than rpg. There can't be included so much story or twists, or special events.
Also playing Heroes4 only with heroes - seems not so good as idea to me.
I've played WOG for example - and it goes that you have mainly one peasant, one knight, one... and it's just... ah I can't feel it as good rpg game. It was designed to be strategy first, rpg then.
Now i really liked the idea that your hero gives ATTACK/DEFENSE to all your troops. Now the things got changed - it gives again - but while he's alive and in some radius.
It's just - it was very cool to have 10 hydras fighting against 20 hydras and beating the snow out of them - cause just you got hero with better attack/defense. I really liked the fact that you have to gain levels, increase your points (attack/defense power/knowledge) - now with Heroes4 it seems that's not the case. I think NWC are missing something - but we have to see it.
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InfernoGuy
Adventuring Hero
Enjoys eating chicken
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posted February 03, 2002 12:16 AM |
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three. I imagine it will be very difficult for the developers to decide how powerful to make the heroes. A hero shouldn't be able to take on 4 black dragons but should be able to kill a couple squires. The challenge will be balancing the heroes with the rest of the creatures effectively.
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Its better to keep your mouth shut and be assumed stupid then open it and remove all doubt.
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Jenova
Famous Hero
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posted February 03, 2002 07:42 AM |
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They wouldn't be much use if they didn't fight.. All their skills apply only to themselves, so they'd be useless.
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Sandro
Known Hero
amongs The Undead
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posted February 07, 2002 01:04 AM |
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Hmm.... similar to Dragon Force in that old Sega Saturn.
I think if the heroes can fight then it should be interesting. But make it hard for all HTH creatures to reach the heroes. And make the heroes more powerful than any creatures.
1 on 1 fight will be interesting, it will decide the last man standing. Make a pop-up question before engaging into 1-on-1 fight, so we are able to retreat.
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malkia
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted February 07, 2002 05:32 AM |
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Quote:
Hmm.... similar to Dragon Force in that old Sega Saturn.
I think if the heroes can fight then it should be interesting. But make it hard for all HTH creatures to reach the heroes. And make the heroes more powerful than any creatures.
1 on 1 fight will be interesting, it will decide the last man standing. Make a pop-up question before engaging into 1-on-1 fight, so we are able to retreat.
1 on 1 is cool - like in Pirates! or Pirates Gold!
but then where all the strategy, combat, tactics will go!
I say keep H4 from becoming RPG game! keep it strategy one! - wargame!
Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to Library Of Enlightenment, to discuss Heroes 4, please go to War Room Of Axeoth.
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