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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Is Bush crazy?
Thread: Is Bush crazy? [ This thread is 7 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 (6) 7 ]
Nivek
Nivek


Adventuring Hero
posted August 28, 2002 08:16 PM

I don't think that anyone is questioning the actual intelligence factor of Bush, Dargon. If any Ivy graduate could become president, then the U.S. would be a lot different.  The thing that is being questioned IMO is his common sense and rationale.  Of course he has his reasons for attacking Iraq, but are they good ones?
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2XtremeToTake
2XtremeToTake


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted August 28, 2002 08:28 PM

Quote:
Quite frankly, I think all Americans are a bunch of arrogant rednecks led by a f#cking monkey George Bush.

HOWEVER. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it if USA nuked the hell out of Iraq/Iran and other sub-human nations led by crazed religious f#ckwits.

You can all flame me now.

Peace and Love.

......
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privatehudson
privatehudson


Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
posted August 28, 2002 08:32 PM

Sorry 2extreme I think either that's in the wrong thread or needs editing to explain it
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undead_wolf_...
undead_wolf_lad


Adventuring Hero
Undead Wolf Wrangler
posted August 28, 2002 08:48 PM

Bush isn't really crazy (well, maybe a little)... just not very bright, well-spoken, rich in common sense, adept at improvisation, etc.
I seriously doubt that there has ever been a U.S. President as ignorant as he is...

He's overstepped from the initial "War on terrorism" and has lost his allies and risks losing his own people if he jumps headfirst into an attack on Iraq alone.

He's painted himself into a rhetoric corner and now has fewer diplomatic options to resolve what is going on...
Add on top of that the fact that our (U.S.) economy is hurting and it smells like war...because war = economic boost.
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dArGOn
dArGOn


Famous Hero
posted August 28, 2002 10:14 PM

Muchacho

It is pretty much excepted that language has a large impact upon our perception of reality.  So if I took the language in the tread topic seriously for its implied message/question…well I think that is just basic good sense.  I think words in a serious debate are incredibly important...all debate and discussion would be futile if we did not have a foundation of mutually understandable words and concepts.


Mad_Unicorn

Bush too trigger happy?  I think recent history would definitely disagree with that point.  As I mentioned in earlier posts…he was under strong pressure after 9/11 to take immediate action….he waited at least a month before military action was taken.  If he really was “trigger happy” I think he would of pounced on all of Afghanistan people with little thought for planning.

Zealots….hmmm either an exaggerated term you want to use for impact or little understanding of what a zealot is.  Is anyone who believes in God a zealot?  Too compare the crusades to the current situation is beyond hyperbole....those were very horrible times when people justified a lot of unjustifiable harm for their own political gain.

As far as Religion has no place in politics…well I would hope you would be objective enough to realize that everyone has a World View whether it be secular or religious and all people see the world through their own beliefs….no one is immune to the perception their World View creates….all we can hope for is that we attempt to be as objective as humanly possible.

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dArGOn
dArGOn


Famous Hero
posted August 28, 2002 10:19 PM


DonGio


I don’t know what information you has been communicated to you about what Bush asked of Americans.  It seems like you may believe it was a much more of a “police state” type of message then was actually conveyed.  

It is obvious that the government can never protect the citizens from all acts of evil/harm….so to request that the citizens report suspicious behavior seems very understandable.  Since he purposed the idea, which of course is not a new idea,….there has not been any major change such as everyone being paranoid and turning in their neighbors because they didn’t post an American flag on their doorway or something like that.  For decades American police have operated neighborhood watch programs which have not made our neighborhoods full of people foaming at the mouth to turn in each other for this or that.  
I think things like this are not typically either/or situations…they are on a continuum from absolute tyranny/police state to a narcissistic fragmented society.  Bush’s  request, mind you months ago, was on the middle of the continuum as I heard them.  At no time did bush request that neighbors “spy” on one another.  I think you may have a misperception of what is going on in the US right now.
Dispensation basically means period of time….there was a dispensation of law (old testament) and a dispensation of grace (new testament), etc.  That is what some Christians believe in.
I don’t think the death penalty can be boiled down to only if it is effective.  There are many questions about the death penalty…is it moral, is it lawful, is it effective, does it promote justice, etc.


Arachnid

Stated “Dargon the most important question is: Is Bush right to attack Iraq?”

I don’t know if that is the most important question (there are a lot of domestic issues that countries must deal with) but definitely an important one.
I think it would be right to attack Saddam (mind you it is Saddam US is after not Iraq…there  is a difference) if certain conditions exist.  By Saddam’s history we know he is a dangerous man.  So the questions that I think are important are did he/does he sponsor terrorism?  The second question I think is is he accumulating weapons of mass destruction.  If either of these quesitons are answered affirmatively  then yes I think it would be right for the US or the world to replace Saddam.


Nivek

Nivek…I don’t know a lot of posts in here seemed to be questioning Bush’s intelligence often.

As far as does Bush have good reasons for replacing Saddam…my response to Arachnid I think conveys my opinion about that.


undead_wolf

I am a pretty educated and well read person…and from my observations Bush knows more about the world situation than I…so I don’t believe he is that ignorant.  As far as is he the most ignorant of Presidents…that one would be incredibly difficult to compare.

I guess I don’t quite get why someone who expresses their beliefs about what they think would provide safety for the world gets characterized as a person who is painted themselves in a rhetoric corner.  Can’t someone express their convictions without others trying to make it more than what it is.  Jumping head first into an attack on Iraq?….he has been talking about that for almost a year now…if that is jumping head first then I don’t know what to say.

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Mad_Unicorn
Mad_Unicorn


Famous Hero
I am a mean person shame on me
posted August 29, 2002 08:23 PM

actually dargon

I would be objective about religion in politics IF it included all religions not just one.

I honestly believe Bush is insane but has great pr coordinators. History is made by the winner and those who read it or subject to what the winner says not what is the truth

True anyone who believes in God is a zealot however it takes power to turn your average believer into a VERY dangerous zealot. The crusades is what this is becoming to both sides of aggression since one thinks one way and the other thinks opposite.

Dargon you seem to be well educated(much better than me anyway) however i think miss the fundamentals of situations. At the very least have difficulty putting yourself in the other person shoe

And now my mind wanders time to dull it up with news

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Nivek
Nivek


Adventuring Hero
posted August 29, 2002 09:09 PM

Quote:

Nivek…I don’t know a lot of posts in here seemed to be questioning Bush’s intelligence often.


Well, he's an accomplished businessman, governor, and now president; no "technical" idiot could do that.  Ever.

Quote:
As far as does Bush have good reasons for replacing Saddam…my response to Arachnid I think conveys my opinion about that.


If we get hard proof that Saddam poses a significant threat to other countries, then I would be all for an invasion.  However, I just don't think we have that information right now.
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dArGOn
dArGOn


Famous Hero
posted August 29, 2002 09:12 PM

Mad_Unicorn

Not sure what you mean by one religion.  Do you mean just in the USA?  Cause worldwide there are lots of nations with various world views/religions that affect their perspective…many of the middle east countries are influenced by Islam….many of the eastern nations are influenced by Buddhism, Ancestor worship, Taoism, etc…..many of the communist countries are influenced by Atheism….the USA is influenced by Christianity….I guess I think we are all influenced by our various belief systems.

Well I am a Christian so I guess that makes me a zealot in your eyes….but I don’t quite see it that way.

As far as putting myself in others shoes….actually in my work life that is exactly what I have to do as a psychotherapist….but you may be correct I may find it difficult to truly understand other countries perspective….but then I think we all suffer from a tendency to view the world from our beliefs, culture, values, and experience.

Enjoy the news.

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DonGio
DonGio


Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
posted August 30, 2002 05:45 AM

Dargon: What dispensation is this, then? And pardon me if I seem rash, but that whole dispensation viewpoint you mentioned seems extremely hypocritical and pragmatic. They use what promotes their cause in their so-called "holy" Bible (mind, I'm a christian, I'm not flaming the Bible here, I'm flaming the people calling it holy, then writing off half of it), and disregards the rest.

And who doesn't, you could reply, and be right. One of the things that troubles me most regarding my belief is all the seemingly crazy stuff in the Bible (glowing charcoal on your enemiy's head, stick to bury your droppings in the desert, ++). I have a hard time believing that every single word in the Bible is the word of God, especially when taking into consideration the knowledge of how the bible was put together, the church fathers (I don't know if that's the appropriate term in english, directly translated from norwegian) selecting and discarding at their own behest. The gospel of Thomas being the most (in)famous of the ones left out.

But how is one to know then what to hold in regard and what to blow off as rambling? Who's to be the judge of that? I am not really close to any answers on these questions, apart from putting more emphasis on direct speech from Jesus.

And to the spying-operation: A neighborhood watch is something entirely different, if my perception is correct, and even that has the danger of turning into a vigilante group, if not handled carefully. I think Juul explained it well in his post regarding this subject.

And I think the reason noone has gone all paranoid is that Bush (or his advisors; you can make a man look pretty clever when all he says is written by someone else (and even so, there has been published a book, a whole book, dedicated to W's linguistic follies in the short time he's been in office)) soon realised they had stepped in the salad (norwegian term for making a mistake) and hushed it down and pretended it never happened.

And again, it's nice to have a discussion so chemically free of flaming and insults. Thanks to all of you.
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arachnid
arachnid


Promising
Famous Hero
posted August 30, 2002 07:04 AM

Just chucking more logs into the fire:

"
But, as a new BBC programme Clear The Skies reveals, the threat of an attack from within America had been considered so small that the entire US mainland was being defended by only 14 planes. "

Most of them were not even armed on sep 11, infact they were seriously thinking about crashing war planes in to the planes since they had no weapons to use on them.


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Juulcesaar
Juulcesaar


Adventuring Hero
posted August 30, 2002 07:05 AM

Using kamikazes to destroy kamikazes. Effective tactic.
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dArGOn
dArGOn


Famous Hero
posted August 31, 2002 02:01 AM

DonGio

You have questions that many Christians have had throughout the centuries.  The canonization of the Bible at the Synod of Hippo brings questions to mind.  

A book I would recommend that is superb in its factual explanation and historical examination of the Bible and Christian beliefs is called “A Ready Defense” written by Josh McDowell.  It answers many questions quite thoroughly and convincingly for both the Christian and atheist/agnostic.  

Few believers or unbelievers could finish a reading of the book without a serious impact.  

I would highly recommend you take a look for it though I do not know if it has been translated into your native language.


Arachnid

I have not heard of the claim you are making about the number of planes defending USA following the 9/11 attack.  I would be interested to see more factual information about that as I find it hard to believe…not that it is necessarily incorrect…just seems quite strange.

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arachnid
arachnid


Promising
Famous Hero
posted August 31, 2002 06:45 AM

read this
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privatehudson
privatehudson


Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
posted August 31, 2002 06:05 PM

That is nothing unusual really, hell the UK probably couldn't find that many servicable planes on the mainland at that amount of notice
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dArGOn
dArGOn


Famous Hero
posted September 01, 2002 01:21 AM

arachnid

Yeah that is interesting...but I don't know what conclusions one could draw except that we need to be better prepared....i would guess with all of our technology we would typically see an attack coming from far away and thus have more planes in the air...but one from inside definitely showed our vunerability.

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2XtremeToTake
2XtremeToTake


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted September 01, 2002 01:30 AM

yes

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Allu
Allu


Known Hero
the supreme heroe
posted May 29, 2003 04:24 PM

I think that Bush,osama and sadam are all crazy
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Wolfman
Wolfman


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
posted December 09, 2003 05:26 PM

PH
Quote:
posted August 23, 2002 05:15 PM  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To delibetately destroy a Hospital is terrorism, to bomb it by accident is an unfortunate event that should never have happened. Damn it Where's D'Argon when you need him!  



I can't belive you just said that!  You want dArGOn there?!
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RedSoxFan3
RedSoxFan3


Admirable
Legendary Hero
Fan of Red Sox
posted January 09, 2004 10:02 PM

Thread Moved
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