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antipaladin
Promising
Legendary Hero
of Ooohs and Aaahs
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posted August 25, 2007 12:25 AM |
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Not really. I haven't seen any antisemetism here in America.
then ur blind. Neo Nazis work lot in USA.
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We had no legal right to the land, but it would be wrong to displace Americans to give the land back to the Indians. Two wrongs don't make a right.
so are u ok when im saying amercia was a mistake?
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(Must... resist... retort...)
you just have no idea how that makes me mad. Think of s being persecuted for last 2000 years. we have what to be angery for!
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You're not talking about the KKK, are you? It's not like you see in the movies; it's actually not that strong. And Jews are far safer in the US than they are in Israel. No Lebanese bombs in America.
There are not skinheads in israel,there are in most places.
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1. Iran does not yet have nuclear weapons
Yes they do.
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2. Nuclear weapons are a last resort.
was hiroshima and negasaky a last resort? no ,they ware trigger happy with a new toy.
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3. Not everyone has nuclear weapons
0 rly?
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If Iran had nukes, it would have tested them already. And that's noticable.
were is the logic in that? if they did test it usa gets uber pissed,they not ready forwar yet,so they have it ,they say it,they just dont use it yet.
would u test a new gun at enemy who still can outsmart you?
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And if I can save my butt, I will do everything in my power to do so.
so am i,but atleast im not saying better you then me!
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types in obscure english
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted August 25, 2007 12:32 AM |
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Remember, one day Britain displaces the Palestinians, the next day it displaces you. If we start moving people around like on a chess board, we can't expect it to be without consequences.
Nothing new. My people were systematically massively banished from Croatia and Kosovo during the 1990s. Serbs in Bosnia were forced to retreat to certain parts of it (Republika Srpska), and if they crossed those lines over to the muslim parts of Bosnia, they met open hostility.
Consequences? Lol what consequences? We even turned out to be the bad guys of the bunch.
Movings of people are a huge part of history. Sometimes with, sometimes without consequences. But it happens all the time. Whether you'll stay somewhere or not isn't a matter of justice but of strength.
I've become tired of saying 'it might not sound fair, but no one said it would'... :/
About antisemitism not existing anymore:
What world do you live in MVas? Cause I'd like to live in it too
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 25, 2007 01:33 AM |
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Neo Nazis work lot in USA.
They are hardly powerful enough to be considered. They are a few groups of ignorant people who occasionally come out of their basements to yell a few angry things.
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so are u ok when im saying amercia was a mistake?
From the point of view of the social contract, both America and Israel were mistakes. But to try to change things back would be a bigger mistake.
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you just have no idea how that makes me mad. Think of s being persecuted for last 2000 years. we have what to be angery for!
See, that's an attitude that causes problems. When groups think of themselves as a people instead of a grouping of individuals, it may cause anything from nothing (if there is tolerance) to discrimination to genocide. Remember that you are an individual. You weren't persecuted for 2000 years. People shouldn't complain about things that didn't happen to them, unless there's a good reason.
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There are not skinheads in israel,there are in most places.
They are few and unimportant.
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Yes they do.
No, they don't. They're even having trouble getting enough plutonium for them.
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was hiroshima and negasaky a last resort? no ,they ware trigger happy with a new toy.
Nuclear weapons are no longer a new toy. Everyone knows what they can do, and so nations don't want to use them unless they are unable to do anything else.
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0 rly?
YA RLY.
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were is the logic in that? if they did test it usa gets uber pissed,they not ready forwar yet,so they have it ,they say it,they just dont use it yet.
Every country that has nuclear weapons has tested them to make absolutely sure they work, and to show other countries that they have a nuclear deterrent. Iran would gain a completely new status in the world if it got nuclear weapons; people would be far more cautious in negotiations with it.
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would u test a new gun at enemy who still can outsmart you?
I wouldn't test it on my enemy, but I would test the gun to make sure that it shoots.
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Nothing new. My people were systematically massively banished from Croatia and Kosovo during the 1990s. Serbs in Bosnia were forced to retreat to certain parts of it (Republika Srpska), and if they crossed those lines over to the muslim parts of Bosnia, they met open hostility.
In the collapse of Yugoslavia, the situation was complicated, because every nationality lived everywhere. They all displaced each other. No one's hands are clean.
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Consequences? Lol what consequences? We even turned out to be the bad guys of the bunch.
In Yugoslavia's case, there weren't any consequences. But in the Middle East, there were. Discontent with the US due to its numerous actions (support of Israel, Desert Storm, support of the Shah, etc.) caused some people to be driven towards those who can strike back against the US. Those people turned out to be Al-Quaeda. The consequence was two planes in the World Trade Center and one in the Pentagon. There were consequences.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted August 25, 2007 05:38 AM |
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Edited by Consis at 05:44, 25 Aug 2007.
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Oddly Enough
Nations of the world have proven to support a very different view between an "attack" and an "expansion" on a territory. An attack does not equate to letting your people populate, settle, and flourish in the area in question. Expansion does exactly that, thus adding to your nation's resources, political influence, and military might.
Most nations of the world see attacks as arbitrary unless weapons of mass destruction were employed. Thus nobody gives a hoot if you've been attacked by missiles and troops unless that territory is then used for colonization by the agressor.
For example: If one single urban american house was built for america on one single inch of Iraqi soil then all hell would break loose. In literal terms it is nothing more than a single house but that house would represent the one thing no nation of this day and age could tolerate or accept. And no other nation will accept it either.
Would you agree?
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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muerte
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 25, 2007 12:22 PM |
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From the point of view of the social contract, both America and Israel were mistakes. But to try to change things back would be a bigger mistake.
What "social contract"?
When did humanity sign that document?
The law of the jungle will always be: survival of the fittest.
Nature cares nothing for "social contracts".
Like it or not, humanity is a creature of nature.
The strong displaced the weak.
No surprises there.
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted August 25, 2007 12:24 PM |
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So no one cares if you shoot them with missiles? or no other nation cares if two countries start shooting missiles at each other?
About expansion leading to an all out war I agree but i think I misunderstood something in the attack part.
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted August 25, 2007 01:08 PM |
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They are few and unimportant.
Indeed?
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No one's hands are clean.
My point exactly.
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So no one cares if you shoot them with missiles? or no other nation cares if two countries start shooting missiles at each other?
Exactly. :/ Sounds unbelievable, doesn't it? That's the way it is, though.
Hey, even during WW2 it took USA like 4 years to enter it, while Germans were rampaging through Europe and committing ethnic cleansings. No one is eager to go to war unless it's directly connected to them. Soviets even had a deal with the Germans, they wouldn't do anything if Hitler didn't attack them.
Only the British commonwealth was like "Bloody hell, mates, are we the only ones actually noticing some chap is conquering Europe right now?"
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 25, 2007 03:44 PM |
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The Neo-Nazis are a few crazy loonies thatt occasionanly come out of their basements. They are unimportant. They exist, but are unimportant.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted August 25, 2007 06:47 PM |
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Edited by Consis at 18:49, 25 Aug 2007.
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Reason For My Example:
Israel is building houses on internationally recognized Palestinian soil. This is clearly defined in the 4th Geneva conventions as illegal. Palestinians requesting aid of allied nations to help remove Iraeli settling colonizers will be internationally acceptable. One nation of special regard is Iran. Iran is a sovereign nation with global political and economic partners. Iran remains respectable as long they do not attempt to colonize Iraq. With Palestinian request & approval, Iran can legally use force to remove Israeli settlers from Palestinian soil. This is equivalent to America using force to remove Iraqis from Kuwaiti soil. It was recognized as a legal action. The difference is America did not ever threaten to 'wipe Iraq off the map' or argue that Iraq 'should not exist'.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted August 25, 2007 07:08 PM |
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And here comes an important question: What is "Palestinian soil"?
True, Israeli borders are now bigger than they were at the beginning, but that did not came at expense of some Palestinian state, but other neighboring countries - Egypt, Syria... Now, I may be wrong, but from what I've heard we (the Israelis) offered the Egyptians to return all their territory to them in exchange for a peace treaty, however Egypt decided to take back only the soil that was profitable to them and the Palestinians ended up under our "control".
I'm not trying to justify our actions, I'm just saying that things here are more complicated than they may seem from afar.
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antipaladin
Promising
Legendary Hero
of Ooohs and Aaahs
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posted August 25, 2007 09:01 PM |
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They are hardly powerful enough to be considered. They are a few groups of ignorant people who occasionally come out of their basements to yell a few angry things.
I think they do have power,if they can realy men,its just a question untill the crazy people get guns. and we know its not hard t oget them. pogroms will commence. hunderds of jewish,black,arab,and what not "WHITE POWER" will die in those pogroms,good american citzen's will lose there lifes. it happend a milion times in humenity history,it will happen again.
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Every country that has nuclear weapons has tested them to make absolutely sure they work, and to show other countries that they have a nuclear deterrent. Iran would gain a completely new status in the world if it got nuclear weapons; people would be far more cautious in negotiations with it.
thats not right,you think israel havent nukes? your mistaken,israel does have,ofc,not as much as usa,but to enlighted iran,we do have.
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I wouldn't test it on my enemy, but I would test the gun to make sure that it shoots.
even if you would,you'd do it in maximom descrtion to keep the technology advantge.
if you think there are no CIA's in iran,i think thats a mistake too.
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caused some people to be driven towards those who can strike back against the US. Those people turned out to be Al-Quaeda.
Thats a mistake, becouse if you didnt step in,and israel would be long destoryed,by 2100 america would be only not muslim country,and by 2105 that'd change,into a tremendus blood baths,a civil war,and a crusade.
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srael is building houses on internationally recognized Palestinian soil.
the minut the arabs learned about the devidetion progrom 60 years ago,they started a war,not willing to share,they started it,we won it ,fair and square. WHY would we give it back,if we shed blood for it?
i want to see america give lands back to the indian.
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types in obscure english
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted August 25, 2007 09:36 PM |
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thats not right,you think israel havent nukes? your mistaken,israel does have,ofc,not as much as usa,but to enlighted iran,we do have.
sigh...
There goes our big "secret".
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mvassilev
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posted August 25, 2007 10:26 PM |
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I think they do have power,if they can realy men,its just a question untill the crazy people get guns. and we know its not hard t oget them. pogroms will commence. hunderds of jewish,black,arab,and what not "WHITE POWER" will die in those pogroms,good american citzen's will lose there lifes. it happend a milion times in humenity history,it will happen again.
Don't confuse the Neo-Nazis with the Republican Party. They are quite similar, but they have a few differences . And anyone who isn't a felon or insane can get guns in America. But there are no pogroms.
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thats not right,you think israel havent nukes? your mistaken,israel does have,ofc,not as much as usa,but to enlighted iran,we do have.
I didn't say that Israel doesn't have nukes. I know it does.
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if you think there are no CIA's in iran,i think thats a mistake too.
No, I'm sure that there are.
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Thats a mistake, becouse if you didnt step in,and israel would be long destoryed,by 2100 america would be only not muslim country,and by 2105 that'd change,into a tremendus blood baths,a civil war,and a crusade.
The only people in the Muslim nations that are interested in actively expanding are the right-wing terrorists. The only reason people join them is because they want to get America out of the Middle East. If it leaves, these groups will lose 99% of their membership. And I don't think that most of the world will turn Muslim any time soon.
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i want to see america give lands back to the indian.
I'm not giving back my land!
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Eccentric Opinion
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roy-algriffin
Supreme Hero
Chocolate ice cream zealot
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posted August 26, 2007 05:38 AM |
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im pretty sure the fanatics are mostly the people that send the terrorists.
most of the actual ones are usually people going to commit suicide anyway(well at least i think so) theres enough teenagers who lost their girlfriends or feel depressed after all.
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"Am i a demon? No im a priest of the light! THE BLOODY RED LIGHT"
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted August 26, 2007 10:03 AM |
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Thats a mistake, becouse if you didnt step in,and israel would be long destoryed,by 2100 america would be only not muslim country,and by 2105 that'd change,into a tremendus blood baths,a civil war,and a crusade.
You base this on what? Immigration? Military might?
I don't think EU will be going all muslims soon and not definitely China. Russia isn't the first one to go either.
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Wolfman
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posted August 27, 2007 03:22 PM |
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What "social contract"?
When did humanity sign that document?
The law of the jungle will always be: survival of the fittest.
Nature cares nothing for "social contracts".
Like it or not, humanity is a creature of nature.
The strong displaced the weak.
No surprises there.
I’m more of a John Locke guy myself. I believe that there is a social contract that exists between a government and its people, employees and their employees that keeps balance. An upset in the balance, and anything goes, such as the American Revolution. John Locke at his finest.
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And here comes an important question: What is "Palestinian soil"?
Very good question. Gaza and the West Bank are still part of Israel, but just set aside for the Palestinians. Sort of like the ghettos is Warsaw in the 30’s.
Neo-Nazis are not powerful in the US, neither is any other white supremacist group. I’d say any group that is racist against white people is tolerated in the US and I’m getting tired of it. I’m not going to name groups, that’s not what this thread is about (not that we were on topic years ago when I posted here  ).
Over 100 pages...wow. Nice to see that this thread never died, just evolved. At least you’re not talking about the Civil War like we used to I guess.
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mvassilev
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Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 10, 2007 03:26 AM |
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I have changed my mind about Iraq. I no longer support establishing a secular dictatorship there. While it seemed like a good idea to me at first, I realized that it really wasn't. The reason that the US was attacked on 9/11 is because of its imperialistic treatment of the Middle East. Gulf War, Musharraf, Israel, Saudi Arabia, etc. I don't want another 9/11. I realize that oil prices will go up, but surely that's worth preventing another terrorist attack. We should just come home.
But I still agree with everything else I said in this thread.
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Eccentric Opinion
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roy-algriffin
Supreme Hero
Chocolate ice cream zealot
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posted October 10, 2007 04:01 AM |
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I have to shrug at that. you never really think much about the future though do you mvass? or do you but you think it will all work out because youve ignored everything around you so to speak?
Remember, were not the ones in danger of a nuke here.Remember there are madmen out there that would already say that since youve been here years already it doesnt matter what youve done now. It just matters what you did, and therefore may do something nasty anyway.
As for the oil prices , well i have to say im hoping noone gets any oil at all so we develop an alternative, but as it is i expect there will be some kind of outcry when oil prices quadruple overnight(if they do, im not sure how economics work very well).
Finally remember isreal alone can not control those areas. If something happens, it happens and we have no force to stop it,From a organized attack against our country to everyone killing each other there, We cant.
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"Am i a demon? No im a priest of the light! THE BLOODY RED LIGHT"
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 10, 2007 02:12 PM |
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You have to realize that the majority of the Middle East isn't full of madmen. There are no more madmen there than there are in any other region. Certainly Iran can't be allowed to get nuclear weapons, because these madmen would be able to do a lot of damage with a nuclear bomb. But if there will be less people angry at the US, then the US will be safer.
You say that if we get out now, we've made so many mistakes that it won't make any difference. But, I say that when we make a mistake, we should correct that mistake, not continue making it. We have made many mistakes, but that's no reason to make more.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted October 10, 2007 03:55 PM |
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You say that if we get out now, we've made so many mistakes that it won't make any difference. But, I say that when we make a mistake, we should correct that mistake, not continue making it. We have made many mistakes, but that's no reason to make more.
Isn't that just a direct quote from Ron Paul?
As far as there not being a majority of madmen in the middle east, so what? It only takes one guy with a bomb to cause a problem. We cannot pull out of Iraq outright because it would cause a power vacuum. Iran and Saudi Arabia would no allow "their" side to fall to the other, they've already said that. We can't just leave.
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