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| Thread: ANn Open Disscusion on......(SEE inside for details) |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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SirDunco
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted October 19, 2002 08:59 PM |
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ANn Open Disscusion on......(SEE inside for details)
Ok first i'd like to exucse my absence. This was coused by a variety of things all of whoom had something to do with the other. Now to get to my point
...As the first thing i'd like to appoligise for the happenings in Bratislava at the England vs. Slovakia game(at which i was present). I'd like to say my words of regret to Emile Heskey and Ashley Cole. If you by some chance don't know what has happend at the game please look it up in some mayor newspaper website.
And to get to the very core of the things i'd like to start an open dissucison on ...Racism, because after this incident many dissucisons have been brought up on this topic so it is only right to hear your oppinions on it. So please join in because this isn't just anything ordinary...
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bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
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posted October 20, 2002 03:28 AM |
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Well, the thing about a discussion on racism is it's sort of like a discussion on, I don't know, eating babies. There just aren't a whole lot of people who are going to make posts like "Racism - good!" Regardless of whether or not they themselves are racists (after all, "I'm not racist, I'm just saying that in my experience [insert ethnic group here] people are degenerate simpletons.")
For the record - Racism - bad!
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2XtremeToTake
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted October 20, 2002 03:43 AM |
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Racism was high in The U.S. Back in the 1700's-1800's and early and mid 1900's.....In the 1700's and 1800's Slavery was popular in the south...when slavery was banned there was mass racism until about 1970, there still is Racism in the U.S. But at least blacks can use the same Builings and faciitys as whites........
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I almost had a psychic girlfriend but she left me before we met.
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Athimus_Phaeni
Famous Hero
Final Fantasy Fan
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posted October 20, 2002 05:42 AM |
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Quote:
there still is Racism in the U.S. But at least blacks can use the same Builings and faciitys as whites........
It would be ridiculous to have a country like USA where black and white people cant enter the same building.
In Brazil there is racism, like in any other country. But it is in a lower scale than in most of other countries(perhaps because of the high level os miscigenation here).
Usually when you think that a certain people is a robber, that people is probably a black one. This is the kind of racism we have here. We almost overcome the other kinds of racism. I am happy for that. But the poor population is mainly black. And some conservative families have problems when their sons get in love(or married) with other races(or religions) person.
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But I won't be
Burned by the reflection
Of the fire in your eyes
As you're starying at the sun
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KittenAngel
Supreme Hero
Lee's wifey
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posted October 20, 2002 07:23 PM |
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Racisusm is silly if ya ask me! God created all men equal, and besides the only diffrance between a black mand and a white man are that black men have a better tan!
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Never wear anything that panics
the cat.
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Hexa
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted October 20, 2002 08:09 PM |
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Everybody is a racist from nature!@
Just like everybody is judgemental.
It all comes down to "in what way we act upon it".
For instance if some Africanbrown person would walk in the door, I wil have put an etiket on him instantly. That etiket wil be made by my character (the way I view the world).
For me he can be the lazy black dude that gets all "our" white girl and gets payed by our government for it.
Then the important part come. And that is "trying not to act in that manor and stay as open-minded as one can.
In other words realize that your perspective of the world might not be the "true one" and that there is more out there then just your set of beliefs,expireience and stuff.
Hmm am I making any sense here guys?
(damn language barriere).
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If you want to realize your dreams >>> you have to wake up!@
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SirDunco
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted October 22, 2002 05:30 PM |
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First of all, KittenAngel...Racism is not silly...that's like saying the holocaust was silly or mass murders are silly, and secondly get the f*** out of here with this relegious cration theory, that thing droves me bloody mad.
Second of all, Hexa...nobody is born a racist which means that not everyone is a racist! It is how you were brought up and it also shows the your inteligence
(This may sound a bit off topic)...But sometimes i think that Coldifus was right in his post just before he left, sometimes I have the same feeling that this place is chaging...for the worse. When someone trys to start something inteligent it get ignored ususaly, but some other BS will get 20 to 30 replys to it a day...think about this...some of you.
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted October 22, 2002 05:52 PM |
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Quote:
Second of all, Hexa...nobody is born a racist which means that not everyone is a racist! It is how you were brought up and it also shows the your inteligence
hmmm both yes and no
The no part is obviously about the "intelligence" part, intelligence has nothing to do wether you are to become a racist or not.
How you are brought up is though, but so is sooo many things. I could count up things here all day about things that have influence on how you are as a person. But the most important things as i see it is where you live, the family closest to you, and the people you spend your time with...like friends co workers and stuff.
My personal theory about why so many people become racists nowadays is because they look for acceptance. Ive seen this happen to people around me, we had a guy in our class for example...didnt have any close friends, got bullied around much by many people at our school for a mistake he made in 3rd grade. When we eventually got to a new bigger school...for people between 7-9th grade...he finally got that acceptance..from people that you and me would call something like semi nazis, so he started to hang out with them and do the stuff they did...Whats really sad in this case though is that one of his relatives, had been killed by the nazis in WWII since he was jewish.
And as some of you might know ive also been working at a school, and there these things gets even more obvious now once you have gotten older. I could almost point out some persons there that will have problems with this in future, just because they dont have any real friends and is like all people looking for acceptance at some level.
Off course also your family is a great influence of this, if you are child which parents complaining about foreigners coming all the time off course you will get that opinion too to some level. At a bigger scale you can take other nations for example...like Iraq, they are trying to get their people to be racists vs the western world by their propaganda...and this propaganda could be accepted by some parents and then their children...well you get the point.
But as said, you are not born a racist. Its all about what "truths" you get to hear and the closest people around you...its also impossible to pick just thing thing that has made someone a racist. Usually its a mix of many different reasons, not just one. And as previous stated intelligence has nothing to do with it, you can be how intelligent you may like but if the people around you more or less make you a racist it doesnt matter at all.
mmm...interesting topic this is.
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SirDunco
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted October 24, 2002 08:19 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Second of all, Hexa...nobody is born a racist which means that not everyone is a racist! It is how you were brought up and it also shows the your inteligence
hmmm both yes and no
The no part is obviously about the "intelligence" part, intelligence has nothing to do wether you are to become a racist or not.
Stiven..it does belive me it does. No inteligent person can become a racist. A person can graduate out of Cambridge with the best marks, but if he's a racist he is not inteligent or anything. That person would be nothing that would deserve to walk the earth!
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bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
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posted October 25, 2002 02:41 AM |
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Hmmm. Was going to try to make a post. Then realized Stiven said it perfectly. Go Stiven, go!
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Oldtimer
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Please leave a message after..
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posted October 25, 2002 04:19 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Second of all, Hexa...nobody is born a racist which means that not everyone is a racist! It is how you were brought up and it also shows the your inteligence
hmmm both yes and no
The no part is obviously about the "intelligence" part, intelligence has nothing to do wether you are to become a racist or not.
Stiven..it does belive me it does. No inteligent person can become a racist. A person can graduate out of Cambridge with the best marks, but if he's a racist he is not inteligent or anything. That person would be nothing that would deserve to walk the earth!
Aparantly you are unaware of the brown eyes : blue eyes expiraments. You can take a class of 5 year olds, tell them that blue eyed people are smarter, stronger, and better than brown eyed people. Tell the brown eyed people that they are stupid and brutish etc. and guess what happens. The blue eyed people start treating the brown eyed people poorly. The brown eyed start to do worse in school work, start acting out while the blue eyed people start to do better and act better. The funny thing is, when you tell them that you made a mistake and that brown eyed are the smart ones, the kids do a role reversal.
Race is just another category in which to classify people and put them in a subserviant social role than yourself. Look at your quote and you'll notice that you are prejudiced against racists and believe that they should all be killed. Isn't that the same thing that racists do?
Racism, nationalism, religeous intolerance is all a natural and instinctive reaction. When Og and Grog where building their first fire they looked over the hill and said, "I want that food that those guys have." and "I bet they want our land and wives and food." "We had better protect ourselves against those 'Strangers' or we will not survive."
The trick is to overcome your natural aversion to people who are different and see them as individuals and not part of some racial group. It takes more than just education, it takes going out and making friends and expiriencing each others cultural outlook so you can come to an understanding.
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<PLEASE DO NOT WAKE THE OLD MAN!>
"Zzzz...Zzzz...Zzzz..."
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SirDunco
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted October 28, 2002 07:21 PM |
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OldTimer...NOBODY HAS A NATURAL INSTICT TO BE RASIT OR PREJUDICED!!!!!! MY God...you do not have a instict which tells you that you should dislike people on the base of diference. It is all about desicions! You make one wrong step and it all blows up! Do any of you realize that you are not born with a racist instict?!
Second of all...from what you are saying it sounds like you should let people run amok and comit hate-crimes? If someone is a Nacist he is nothing with a brain! Racism is the worst illness of humanity and unless we find a cure for it it will swallow us all!!!!!!!!
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bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
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posted October 28, 2002 08:00 PM |
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Dunco, if you want an "open discussion" you can't start calling OT a Nazi for mentioning a fairly well known experiment that actually did happen and for saying that he feels that it's natural to be uneasy about those who are different from what we're used to. He never once said it's okay to then genocide those people or anything like that, in fact he very specifically pointed out that we have to actively be watching ourselves for racist behavior.
Saying all racists are gibbering morons in dismissive and dangerous because they might surprise you and show some cunning. If you assume they're all idiots than guess what... they'll take over when you least expect it. Racism bad? Yeah. Racism a character flaw? Yeah. Acting in a racist manner immoral? Absolutely. But outright dismissing racists as morons is dangerous.
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johnsone79
Hired Hero
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posted October 29, 2002 10:19 PM |
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I think a distinction needs to be made about intelligence. Intelligence is your mental capacity for thinking and solving problems and the like. Intelligence has very little to do with racism. A person can be very intelligent and come up with some of the most creative new insights the world has ever seen and still be a racist. Sorry for the coming american reference, but it is what I know well. Ben Franklin was a very intelligent man who gave science some of it's first understanding of lightning and electricity, but he was also extremely racist by todays standards.
Racism is more an issue of morality and what you think is ethically right. This can have very little to do with intelligence. From my experience I have found that some of the most accepting people that have the least prejudice are those that modern society sees as mentally disabled. Meanwhile I knew many people in University that were racist and prejudice against all sorts of people, especially those of lower intelligence. I find any form of prejudice bad. It goes well beyond racism. I believe racists should even be allowed to have there views even if I don't agree with them. Where an issue occurs is when someones beliefs end up harming others, then something needs to be done. If you beat a person because you think they are a racist does that make you any better than them. Especially if they don't act upon their beliefs. Although, I tend to stay away from them, I have known people that have racist views that will interact as well as anyone with blacks or other races.
As for the instinctive categorization by differences. I have to say this is probably true. Lifes main goal is to pass on its genetic material to the next generation. Through millions of years of evolution we are programmed to try to outcompete others. In doing so we develop a sense of us and them. It is our ability to think to some level that allows us to overcome this behavoir of us and them.
Sorry, I have to go, this is taking longer than I expected. I'll try to continue my thoughts later.
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TheEverLiving
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posted October 29, 2002 11:30 PM |
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Ummm....Hi, Yes I'm Racist against racists 
what a shi-t thread, Umm..i mean are you trying to start a race riot in the forums? from what i've read so far it would seem so
Goodbye!
Edit: Whynot Eradicate the words Racist and Racism and let it die ?
Oo_TEL_oO
James Brown: Get Up Aaaaaaaaaaah !!!
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SirDunco
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted October 30, 2002 08:16 PM |
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First of all...i NEVER AND MARK THIS NEVER called OT a RACIST. i recomend that you read my post throughly.
second of all...do you people not get what i'm trying to say?!!! Are you this litteral by nature or are you doing this to drive me mad?? I'm saying that noone in their right mind will choose a racist path...ok?!
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Snogard
Known Hero
customised
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posted October 31, 2002 06:29 AM |
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Quote:
First of all...i NEVER AND MARK THIS NEVER called OT a RACIST. i recomend that you read my post throughly.
second of all...do you people not get what i'm trying to say?!!! Are you this litteral by nature or are you doing this to drive me mad?? I'm saying that noone in their right mind will choose a racist path...ok?!
I am not trying to make you mad, but maybe you should say "those who choose a racist path are not in their right mind", instead of "none in their right mind will choose a racist path", as today's "right" mind maybe tomorrow's "left". 
There are people who have never perform any racist act, but are racist in thoughts to a certain extend. Do you consider these people racists? If so, then I am afraid many people are not in their "right" mind, if any is at all...
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Seize The Day.
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HeyYou
Known Hero
and beloved food provider.
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posted October 31, 2002 04:34 PM |
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SirDunco
Quote:
OldTimer...NOBODY HAS A NATURAL INSTICT TO BE RASIT OR PREJUDICED!
Quite the contrary. It's likely that racism is a leftover survival trait from early man. Back when food was scarce, small groups, or tribes, would work together to survive. You would first trust yourself, then your immediate family, then your small tribe. Any outsiders would be untrusted by default.
Scientists beieve this is the reason why such a large part of the brain is devoted to face recognition. You need to be able to accurately recognize faces in order to remember who is trustworthy, and who is the enemy.
Racism seems to be an extension of this survival instinct.
"That person is different from me, therefore that person is my enemy."
Sort of a "Are you from my tribe? No, then you are bad!" kinda thing.
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bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
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posted October 31, 2002 06:32 PM |
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Here's the thing, to repeat and paraphrase what other people have said and add my own $0.02... Human intelligence is basically defined as the ability to think abstractly, to characterize and to generalize. It's those last two that, while beneficial in many situations can lead to racism and prejudice in others. It's good to be able to say, recognize long thin slithery things as belonging to the category of "snake" and, after seeing Uncle Zugzug bitten by one of these "snakes" explode in a very, very messy death and then to generalize and say "snakes are dangerous." If you have one thing that you decide to name an "apple" and you think it is tasty, you would probably generalize to "I like apples" rather than the more accurate thought of "I liked that particular apple." Similarly, if you see something that you know is in the category of "computer" you are going to assume it works like other things that you have seen that are also in the category of "computer." This way, you don't need to be retrained on how to use Word every time you switch jobs.
Now, where that gets us into trouble is, if you spend all your life only seeing, say eskimos, than to you "human" is going to be defined by what eskimos look like. If you then see a white person, you may not put them into the category of "human," you may put them into the category of "bringer of smallpox" and generalize to "white things that look sort of like humans are actually bringers of disease." The racism is in part, in a strange and ironic way, because of the existence of human intelligence rather than in spite of it. Inflammatory statement? Yeah. However, I think that the way to combat racism is to recognize how it can come about from simply being human. It's something that you have to actively guard against rather than assuming it is something that only springs up in freaks. You have to purposely fight against the natural urge to characterize. You have to consciously make sure that just because you know a black guy who is also a jerk or a chinese girl who's a real snow you don't subconsciously extend that to all black guys or all chinese girls.
If you go into it thinking that any racist thoughts are abnormal and insane, then when they pop into your head you'll think "no, I couldn't have thought that, only freaks think that way" and it will linger and linger and before you know it, you're a closet racist and you spend all your time feeling really guilty. Then, and here's the dangerous part, you meet up with one of those hate groups and all of a sudden you feel accepted because you find out that others have those thoughts that you were feeling so guilty about it and you feel normal and happy and you go to a Klan rally and you're a jackass.
If you go into it thinking that racist thoughts are normal, but wrong, then when they pop into your head you'll go "no, that's not right, I'm over generalizing. Just because that one white guy is a pompous twit doesn't mean that other one is also" and you'll set up mental guards against that kind of thinking and you'll make sure you don't act on it, but you won't get into that little guilt cycle that ends with you seig heiling and looking like a fool.
Racism bad, but that doesn't mean it can be dismissed as nothing more than unnatural idiocy.
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SirDunco
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted November 02, 2002 08:10 PM |
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Snogard...if someone has a racist thought that is not a crime..thinking is not a crime, but your words and your actions speak for your belives...
Bort... look racism is not an instict! Say what you want, give me some stupid scientifict reaserch that shows nothing but numbers, i don't care. Racism developed along with human civilizationn. it's a part of everyday life now, still it is not natural to hate people for differences.
You can bring in thousands of researchs that say that i don't know 95% of people like this and this think this way and this way...scinece and life are something different.
Don't even bother me with this crap
And i know you find my standing very rough or something, but if you have ever seen Nazis beating the crap out of people just before they were differet u would see my point and i also use my most-of-the-time motto : 'Fight Fire With Fire'.
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