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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: Fog of War is a pain in the neck...
Thread: Fog of War is a pain in the neck...
Damacon_Ace
Damacon_Ace


Famous Hero
Also known as Nobris Agni
posted October 21, 2002 07:10 AM

Fog of War is a pain in the neck...

Hello everyone,

You might have noticed in Heroes 4 that there's this new thing known as the Fog Of War, which turns areas grey after you've explored that area and then you cannot see other enemies lurking up to you from those areas.

While I may realise that 3DO introduced this in Heroes 4 to make the game a little more realistic, I consider this feature a pain in the neck. Not only does it impede your progress of checking on the enemy's whereabouts, this shroud allows the AI to sneak up to your castle or hero, defeat it, and then disappear into the dark again. And, to make matters worse, the enemy will get away with it because you won't be able to track him down while spending most of the time defending your town rather than taking other towns.

This Fog Of War has made the computer players way too powerful, especially on larger maps. I keep on losing a lot more since this Fog Of War thingy was introduced, even on a novice medium map. I really hope in Heroes 5 that a Fog of war disabling option will be introduced, so that players who aren't master tacticians (like me) can actually play and win something for once!
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DarkVenom
DarkVenom


Adventuring Hero
Grandmaster Daywalker
posted October 21, 2002 09:19 AM

For those who lost the game just because of FOW

Hi,

Actually, Fog-of-War is a good attribute in HOMM IV. They also make the enemy's turn shorter (at least from developer's point of view because I myself is a game-developer).

Anyway it won't be greate if you can just see the enemy army from thousand of miles away. And it's also fun to hunt down enemy's heroes while they are running away from you.But you can just use a simple tactic. Scatter small amount of your creatures all over the map especially near your town or enemy's towns. Don't place expensive unit like dragon. Instead use something like Sprite.

For those of you wasting your time defending towns, you can just attack enemy's town and progress through a level with a bunch of heros while all other creatures are safe at home. Believe me it works! The important thing is: get your heros some experience first.

Anyway it will be nice if 3DO includes FOW disabling feature.
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A dead has no weakness of a living.

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Nidhgrin
Nidhgrin


Honorable
Famous Hero
baking cookies from stardust
posted October 21, 2002 09:22 AM

You're right of course, the fog of war does add some new difficulties and strategical problems to the game.  But in my opinion this is an improvement.  It adds another level of danger to the game, and you can take advantage of this yourself by sneaking up onto unsuspection enemies.
If you have true problems with this, there are a small number of trics that might help you.  When you guard mines or garrisons with troops (needs to be no more than one unit) the sight range around that mine or garrison increases remarkably.  That's one thing I sometimes do.  A second option is to position small amounts of troops at key positions, you do not wish enemies to pass unnoticed.
There may be more ways to deal with this, but as of now, these are the only ones I practice myself.

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Djive
Djive


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
posted October 21, 2002 09:52 AM

Considering the poor state of the AI I believe this is a good thing. It's proof that there is some life in the AI even if it's not all that much.

Generally, you get advance warning at least one turn before they attack. Use this advance warning to caravan your troops away from the town if you're too weak to defend town, or if you think you can make a stand purchase out as much as you can. If you can't caravan troops becuase enemy blocks the road, then move them to the nearest ore pit / sawmill. Chances are high the Ai will ignore them a few turns.

The only time it happens with any frequency is if you have teleporters close to your towns, if that is not the case then you will see the enemy pass by many of the other adventure objects you have flagged on their way.

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Grythandril
Grythandril


Famous Hero
who is a Chaotic Wizard
posted October 21, 2002 10:54 AM

fog of war affects boths sides.  It works while you playing against a human.  

You have the ability to sneak up and attack their castle or steal some mines and disappear in teh fog again.

It give the game a certain edge as you dont know what is happening, especially during the opoosition turn and you see just a glimpse of a movement on an area you have covered.

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privatehudson
privatehudson


Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
posted October 21, 2002 03:03 PM

Yes fog of war is a pain in the neck, but fun

I especially like to advance into enemy territory using a large number of scout armies to cover ground and discover the enemy. If you make each a unit of 1 flying creature (for my fav. Order I use genies - expensive but worth it) you can quickly determine the size and location of enemy forces and prioritise your movement.

It also helps when using the stealth ability, after all there's no real point in being invisible if you can be seen from across the map!
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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted October 21, 2002 03:04 PM

Jeeez! Have you ever heard about scouts?
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bizud
bizud


Known Hero
Mighty Donkey
posted October 23, 2002 12:18 PM

Well, I agree the fog of war is annoying, but I don't think its ALL bad.  Here's my take on it:

- It's very annoying how the enemy can hide one lousy level 1 hero out in the middle of nowhere, just causing havok by stealing all your mines.  It's a problem when a game becomes annoying.  Challenge is good, but frustration is very, very bad.

- The observation towers have been rendered far less useful.  One would think that you could at least get a glimpse of units' current position, but no.  There could be a huge army on the march and all you get to see is the nice view.

The obvious solution is to just increase the sight range of units/buildings.  I shouldn't be able to see what my enemy is doing across the map, but troops stationed at one end of a bridge should really be able to see the massive hordes approaching from the other side.

Maybe they should have included watchtowers, or some structure which kept a permanent watch over a certain area.

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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted October 23, 2002 02:10 PM

Quote:

It's very annoying how the enemy can hide one lousy level 1 hero out in the middle of nowhere, just causing havok by stealing all your mines.  It's a problem when a game becomes annoying.  Challenge is good, but frustration is very, very bad.



If Level 1 heroes can take your mines, you're obviously doing something wrong. Don't you use those mines as army stations?

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privatehudson
privatehudson


Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
posted October 23, 2002 06:11 PM

Most scouting can be done with 1 unit of 1 flying creature near to bottle neck areas like bridges. Or try leaving one on sleep orders close to a watchtower and every so often check it out.

Oh and csarmi's right, garrison your mines, starting with what's vital to your battle plan with the most troops and no stealth hero will trouble you! (unless he's VERY high level)
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Khaelo
Khaelo


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
posted October 23, 2002 07:44 PM

Observation towers may not be all that useful to find enemy armies, but they'll still let you spot resources, mines, dwellings, edges of towns, etc.  The fog won't cover that stuff (unless you're looking at it from the wrong angle on a laptop screen ).

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johnsone79
johnsone79


Hired Hero
posted October 24, 2002 09:29 PM

For the most part I like the strategic pizaz that fog of war adds.  It makes things much more touch and go especially considering my old stategy of sending one giant hero out into the world to explore and conquer.  I have to take much more consideration of where I put my troops and whether there is a path by which enemies could sneak up on my town past my armies within the fog of war.  The only thing that drives me nuts is when you have to defeat all heroes and armies in a scenario and someone hides out in the fog of war and never tries to attack.  It can be really annoying to find them and kill them.
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