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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: Your favourite magic school
Thread: Your favourite magic school [ This thread is 2 pages long: 1 (2) ]
BrennusWhiskey
BrennusWhiskey


Known Hero
The quickest H4 player
posted June 04, 2008 07:52 AM

Quote:
Well....
In single player, Order is great fun. On large or X-Large maps with lots of time and plenty of levels its good.

But.... Lich is right. In multi-player Order doesnt EVER get enough levels to beat the Necro-Vampire-Death combination.

Order doesnt stand a chance against a Necro player unfortunately. Most games are over in three weeks and the Order guy needs 4-5 more levels for better magic.

Necro-Vampires will have to be tamed somehow in multi player.


Believe me good players can squash you with order magic online.
Do you have some experience with things u told?

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Zamfir
Zamfir


Promising
Supreme Hero
I tell you wHat
posted June 05, 2008 06:32 AM

I agree with you. Order has all the cool mind control spells form H3.
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Mystic_Genie
Mystic_Genie


Hired Hero
posted June 06, 2008 02:39 AM

Order is by far the most useful spell classes simply because of its variation;having nice early damage spells and blesses(flight,blur),late powerful curses(forgetfulness,berserk,hipnotise,mass slow)and nice adventure spell(town gate,vision),useful seadge spells(precision,teleport,create illusion,phantom image,displacement),excellent early spells for creeping(frost bolt,magic fist,cowardice),and anti caster spells(power drain,steal enchantment,dispel) makes them in my opinion the best spell class.

Life in my opinion ties with chaos as second place for the wards(mass chaos ward,mass death ward,mass nature ward,mass order ward) and blessings(mass fervor,prayer,mass bless,celestial armor,martyr),the resurrection spells(guardian angel,divine intervention),and the somewhat
imbalanced anti death spells(holy shout,holy word)

Chaosties for second with seriously powerful damage spells(disintegrate,chain lightning,armageddon),some fancy blesses(mass first strike,cat reflexes)and curses(mass misfortune,cloud of confusion) and a nice array of early spells for creeping(Magic Arrow,Haste,bloodlust,Confusion,Fire Bolt,First stike,mana flare);

As for death and nature are again tied for third the first for by far the most crippling curses(mass weakness,mass weakness,mass curse,unholy song),some direct damage spells(plague,hand of death,life drain)and the always useful summoning spells (raise vampires,raise ghost),and I suppose the demonology spells though chances of that happening are pretty slim;as for the second it has the most advanced summoning spells that occupy every level and helps both at early game creeping and late game wars with other players(summon wolf,summon elf,summon water elemental,summon griffin,summon faerie dragon) and some useful blesses (mass fortune,mass snake strike) though the necromancy ward is a bit to much in my opinion.

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thinkminiq
thinkminiq


Adventuring Hero
Hero of the Miniq
posted June 12, 2008 03:48 PM
Edited by thinkminiq at 15:48, 12 Jun 2008.

First place for Order and second place is Chaos for me
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Zamfir
Zamfir


Promising
Supreme Hero
I tell you wHat
posted June 23, 2008 03:14 PM

At least everyone agrees that these two are the funniest.
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Andreas
Andreas


posted June 24, 2008 03:13 PM

chaos magic rulz!!! is cool
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TheUnknown
TheUnknown


Adventuring Hero
posted June 24, 2008 07:45 PM
Edited by TheUnknown at 19:46, 24 Jun 2008.

Well, I used to play knights usually to make my army much better in Heroes-3, after some time started playing magic heroes and when I saw the power of DD, it was love at first sight (Sandro, Malekith & Zydar rule).
'cos of DD I rate Chaos as my favorite (and of course mass misfortune, the one that improves the damage for non fire over lvl2 spells). Chaos also has sick, damage improving spells for its armies.
Death is a very serious school too, summoning ghosts to age enemies is a great strategy.
Not a great fan of Order alignment but I too can't deny the power of its magic school (equilibris got it pretty balanced, now teleport and town gate aren't that good).
Nature can be great, never forget about the potencial of quicksand, it does wonders when you need to buy time. (be it for summoning, shooting etc)
Life vs Nature or Might is a major time threat as they are the only factions that basically cannot get dispel or cancellation thus enabling you to bless till tomorrow
Favorite Chaos but like Death and Nature too, Life isn't bad, Order is lowest in my favorites list.

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Galev
Galev


Famous Hero
Galiv :D
posted June 26, 2008 06:45 AM
Edited by Galev at 07:06, 26 Jun 2008.

A long-long post

Order is my above all favourite. But I played much with the other schools as well (though not necessarily with their factions).
So let me add an other -1000th- review about them

Before I start, I have to tell, I never played multiplayer with H4 -well, actually except the one occasion: a bitter defeat by my friend's nasty death knight ^^. So I have "only" single player experience.

Nature: Let's start with the least favourite. Nature annoyes me a bit. There is good power in it, with summoning, and the summon 2ndry skill, but still something is missing. The summoning spells come her fire elementals: at least takes the retaliation. Water can cast: don't us it against water or ice elementals (demons), that's fool. In most other cases it can help, but there are better spells/summons to chose -hopefully. Earth: extreme slow tank. The only use I found is against other earth elements/probably against ice demons.
Quick sand: a good alternate slow. But take close attention on placing, it's very tricky, and may results in patterns of sand that you never wanted. It's good against any walker. And you finish them with flying summons or shooters. Keep casting it, don't be afraid to cover half the combat site in sand
Summon unicorn: somewhat junk, if you ask me, as every unicorn in H4, simply can't be matched to a griffin (low hp, walker and blind is too rare to rely on) But summon griffs, then snake strike and
giant stenght. Summon plant-thing (don't know it's English name) is good. It's a good shooter when is bigger noumbers and can weaken, but not the best choice. Necromancy ward is again a result of over-specification. If you play the AI, it will be to lame, so you not really need to use it; if you play against a mate, you will need more than this.
What to summon: phoneix/dragon/insect? The answer is so simõple: which you have in the mage guild And having one of them in your book makes any other summon unneeded so it is quite "ill-balanced" IMO. Dragon strenght is a great thing, but most battles can be won without it against AI, as I experienced, though it's a huge help.

PS notes: Oh I forgot to mention: no direct damage here, something that could be needed sometimes (but well, you may learn some chaos)
Nature summons -of course- can't be cancelled or dispelled: they act as normal living units (or elemental)

Chaos: the school I always lookd down a bit. What is so complex about it? The recipe is: 1,open the book. 2, chose direct damage tab. 3,compare the noumbers under the icons. 4, chose the icon with the biggest noumber under it. 5, target an enemy creature. That's all you can tel about the chaos magic "strategy" It's simply too dumb. It has good curses and blessings like spell shackles, mana eruption (or what) and first strike. But who is so stupid to waste mana and a turn on a mana-earning spell if he/she can finish off a whole enemy stack with one spell? And conjuration will give you all the mana you need. Or you visit your town/a magic well in need. And again: even if it's good fun to see a mage suffer (small) damage from their own casting, it is a stupid chose: You waste a turn in wich you could finish the caster off, you risk it casting spells. See: magi- they will poison you for 100% and chaos has no chance for a cure. But magi has 16 hp! A fire bolt and they are but ashes! Genies: their peace or ice can harm much. Even if you can't kill them with one spell, you can lower their noumber well enough. A fairy dragon or evil sorceress will mirror the curse back, but they won't mirror the spell that kills them (always keep it in mind!) But a spell shackle mirrored on your heroe will prevent You from implosions as they cost much mana, and heroes has -appr.- low hp. Magic mirror is all the same: the caster is not a fool to cast on a mirror, it will chose an other target. Simply kill the caster with your desintegration.
Bloodlust and first strike or catreflexes can be handy in every 1 battle from 100. I tell you, if you chose Chaos, there's no more annoying thing than having a mageguild with bloodlusts, first strikes and magic mirrors. The one who choses Chaos does it because (s)he wants to burn everything to the ground. Simple enough.
(no need to mention the use of the special skill, is there?)

Death: Pretty out of my interest. I played a few times with death, but it never satisfied me so much. Curses, yes. And what then? Mass curse is a good thing ok, but not that very impressive. Disrupting ray can be cast only once and always decrease the same amount of defense (the other flaw in H4: no spell power: the lame barbarian's spell is just as effective as the arcmage's ) Plague is nice as well, till the enemy has no curings. But here are some over-specialized spells as well like unholy song and life drain. They are good against the right factinos (especially lifedrain), but if you fight chaos: they are simply away in the trash. (but note here: lifedrain can not be mirrored!) Vampirism is just the favourite of any bad-mannered evil little nec-romantic perverse Use it on skeletons, skeletal dragons, devils, anything Ghost aura: I tell you: I never used it. It can be good if it really does what is promised...
Summonings: the big drawback: can be cancelled and dispelled. but nevertheless handy. But pitily you can't always reach their potential. At late game you can face armies of 1200 halflings and such so you could summon the many skeletons, but who wants skeletons if you can afford vampires that time? If you can not, there's still hand of death, only worth against 4 level units. But it can be resisted, as it's a curse, not direct damage! Also good against heroes - without magic resist. Sacrifice is a strategic spell, you have to decide if it worths it (but most cases it doesn't).

PS notes: don't use plague/poison on blinded units OR don't blind poisoned units.
You have slow here as well, but can't use it on undeads and non-living (if I'm right)
Every death summons act as undead, even those created by Call Dead -if you reanimate eg. some enemy medusas, they won't be affected by poison or mind effect (if I'm correct)
You won't be able to summon if necromancy ward was cast, but you can cancel it from enemy living units.

Life: it's a must-have, because the Only cure for poison. First I missed resurrection, but now I think that would make the game even more imbalanced... You have here some good buffs. Some of them are useless if you are unlucky enough. Imagine chaos ward and nature ward on a map with Order enemies... If you have not heal somehow, it s**kc, because that's one of the best life-spells (of above reason). Holy word is the only damage, and works only against death units. BUT: it can be managed over walls! Use it! The martir spell is a good tactical spell. Use a fragile but powerful unit (mage) and a noumberous, though yet useless unit (dwarf) and you have a battle with better chanches. You can target one "victim" more times, might directing Every damage to the same unit. It takes the damage from spells as well. NOTE: it does not protect you from the stone gaze of a medusa! I didn't experienced it with vampires... I suspect the life is drained from the martir...
Bless needs not much explanation: use it against mass curse and save an exorcism ;-) Oh and I think exorcism needs not much to say about either. If you get heavily cursed, eg. by evil eyes, necromancers etc. it is your friend. The 5th level: guardian angel is good, but mostly on 3rd/4th level creatures. And it can be canceled... Use it on heroes will give them only one extra life! The sanctuary is... well What about it? You can start a fair static state. And in the while the enemy can buff their troops So I don't really see the point. If you exit sanctuary with one/two troops, the enemy will take them one by one. Well, if you are in a minor battle and don't want fragile units hurt... I used this spell one or two times in my entire H4 career, but(or therefor?) it doesn't mean I'm right.

Order: Now after the lesser schools... only joking
Here you have a bit of this and a bit of that. And the best bits, I say.
1, You can affect range attacking. Blur, precision aaaand: forgetfullness. One of the best spells ever. Can be exorcismed and dispelled, but it means you can happily use it against: cyclops, medusa, elves, venomspawns -the most fearsome rangers. And if you are lucky, the heaven enemy chose knight or will not exorcism it -can happen.
2, You can affect movement: Mass slow is excellent against any meele fighter. Be it a flyer or not, alive or not. You can also flick the enemy around. Use it at siege to your advantage (up the tower, down the tower, up the tower, down the tower...) You can also move (if you can aim correctly) fragile shooters behind tanks -shielding them. Teleport is even more nasty than flicking around (behind the walls, outside the walls...) It's good against enemy melee: just throw them in the far cornen of the battle field, in the bushes.
3, You can summon: Illusion is a bit overpowered, but will it stop you from using it ruthlessly against your enemies? "Copy and paste" them! Be warned: the copy can't use magic and can be cancelled or dispelled. They count as non-living, so no poison no mind-effect. It's the solution if you run into some ice-demons with your genies And it's always good to have some extra level-4 stacks etc.
4, You can affect spells: Dispell is a bit tricky: terminating Every magic: not-alive summons (undead and illusion), curses, blesses. But it won't help against disease. And you can steal enchantements. It is a good idea, but not really needed against AI. But can be nice against a friend's cleric Oh, and power drain (or what's the name) is there if you think, but it's not of primary use.
5, And most of all -You can affect the mind: I mentioned forgetfullness before. A great thing against any shooter (if they are alive!). Berserk is a nasty thing on the enemy at the start of battle. It's a limited kind of hypnotize. Blind is a lower usage spell. Only for 3 rounds, but if no forgetfullness is in your guild, it will do. But never, ever blind a poisoned unit!!! Hypnotize: use it on enemy witch and make him blast himself with chain lightning; or make a necro curse their units; misuse the cleric or help yourself to some freshly summoned phoneix; but before you do that, make sure you have power drain on the victims To hypnotize creatures is fun too. The only small disadvantage is: you can't shoot at hypnotized units and mass effect blesses will effect them too. Never dare using a mass exorcism eg. Hypnotize is a particular tidbit against mermaids
6, Other spells: Town portal is, well, Yeah! I remember when I first used it -just to see what error would happen- in combat. That video...ha-ha! And you can even portal from the sea So if things turn out bad, just portal away from battle. I do not exactly remember what happens if you had summoned units... I think the battle is terminated even in that case. The only limit is: you can't flee with it from a battle too near to your town (just like with flee).
Dismissal: an anti-summon spell. (a bit of overspecialisation)Don't bother with it against undeads or illusions, use dispell. But against a conjured er... I mean a summoned phoneix it is good enough.


That's all I can say for now about HoMM4 magic schools. Hope you find it handy and not "simply useless"

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Incidence? I think it's cummulative!

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only4thewin
only4thewin

Tavern Dweller
posted June 28, 2008 09:23 AM

i will concede that the hypnotize+sacrafice combo is by far the best spell combo.  however, this doesnt make either of those schools the best.  from my experience of playing through missions, different sized maps and with many of the armies.  order has the best balanaced magic.  this has mostly to do with the creatures that are in the dwelling.  i have had way too much fun having a stack of titans, casting mass slow on enemy then with two stacks of genies 'create illusions' of titans then secondary hero casting illusions of titans.  i wish the titans get thrown to the back lines but they usually get teleported across the screen. where the opposition gets to have all kinds of fun beating up on very tough thin air...hehehehe.  outside of the battle field, being able to 'town gate' for various reasons is simply invaluable.  let me run a few situations.
1) you just had an awesome battle that cost you a hero....town gate, HEALED!
2) it would take you 4+ turns to get to town to grab recruits or to bring them to you...town gate, full army!
3) your hero has leveled a few times in a magic class...town gate,spell casting banaza!
i have read about creating illusions and then town gate during battle, but what fun is it to beat on an enemy and not recieve exp. points?
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PhoenixIV
PhoenixIV


Hired Hero
posted June 28, 2008 04:08 PM

I think Nature.

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Jacomien
Jacomien

Tavern Dweller
posted June 30, 2008 01:47 PM

Chaos is not bad - especially if you want to kill your enemy fast.

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Blizzrock
Blizzrock


Hired Hero
posted June 30, 2008 01:50 PM

I'd have to say death.  Killing your enemy is always useful.

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Galev
Galev


Famous Hero
Galiv :D
posted June 30, 2008 02:34 PM

Quote:
I'd have to say death.  Killing your enemy is always useful.


Well, yes it is But Chaos is more potent in that field...

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Skeleton_King
Skeleton_King


Disgraceful
Famous Hero
angelito's son-in-law
posted July 01, 2008 06:22 AM

hmm, chaos is cool, but more usfell is death magic

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ElectricBunny
ElectricBunny


Known Hero
Pimp My Box
posted July 10, 2008 06:39 AM
Edited by ElectricBunny at 06:44, 10 Jul 2008.

I believe that NWC did a good job on making all magic schools balanced. All magic schools have very good spells. Here are the good spells and merits of each class:

ACADEMY: Academy has excellent magic which can really aid you in a fight. Here are some examples: (maybe the names are a bit wrong since I have Russian H4) Precision, at low level which makes your halflings killing machines, Phantom Illusion (level 4) which creates a punching bag for the enemies to beat on while your supreme number of ranged units do their work, and especially Berserk. Just a couple of hours ago I played a game with 68 genies and 12 titans versus 90 ogre mages, 50 cyclopes, 50 thunderbirds and 30 behemoths. I got off with pretty much NO LOSSES because I used a combination of Berserk, Song of Peace and occasional 1,180 damage Ice Bolt - all of which are also great Order spells.
DEATH: Also a very good magic school with lots of very handy spells. These come to mind: Hand of Death, Raise Vampire, and a spell I can't remember the name (maybe Lifedrain), but which sucks the life from all enemy units on map and adds to the hero's HP. Especially good is Vampiric Touch which as someone else said makes some of my otherwise moderately strong units (compared to vamps), like Ghost Dragons, insanely powerful.
CHAOS: A powerful damage school with powerful spells right from the beginning, like Magic Arrow dealing about 50 damage at level 1, making it possible to send single chaos magic heroes right from the beginning to clear out mines. Not to mention all the other spells like Fireball, Inferno and Chain Lightning and especially Implosion (I think thats what it is) which really help damage the enemy during the fight.
NATURE: A good magic school with often very helpful summoning spells right from level 1. Spells like Mass Fortune also help reduce damage and speed up your units.
Last but not least at all, LIFE: At low level life spells rather lack in significant help, but with levels 3+ the spells really get good, like Resurrection and Mass Bless and Spirit armour (or something like that, the spell with the shining golden suit of armor).
All in all I've played with all magic schools and I think they're closely balanced. I voted Deathbecause of the many extremely powerful spells but I think Order as good as death magic.
hope it helps!
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nickname
nickname

Tavern Dweller
posted July 23, 2008 08:40 AM

I voted death, mostly 'cause of hand of death
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espen15
espen15


Famous Hero
posted July 27, 2008 09:14 AM

Voted for order, because of hypnotinize and berserk, which later becomes puppet master and frenzy in h5

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einomida
einomida


Known Hero
posted July 27, 2008 10:08 AM

My favorite is Chaos magic, because of nice buffs and the ever-awesome Disintegrate - creatures killed by it cannot be resurrected, how cool is that.
I think Order Magic is the best and probably Nature the worst, but I haven`t really used Nature much.
Death Magic is very nice, especially when coupled with Nature, Hand of Death is a real killed and Vampiric Touch also.
I liked Life Magic too, Mass Wards were nice and there are other good spells, but I really hate Life town...

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Arx333
Arx333


Hired Hero
posted August 04, 2008 05:09 AM

I agree that it's unbalanced that only one spell school has Town Gate.


Otherwise, my favourite is Chaos, but I'm considering saying Nature, because Nature has Life and Chaos beside it, while Chaos has Nature and Death, and I think Life suits my style better than Death. But generally, my games (all HoMM games) have always been about reaching 'Implosion' as quickly as possible and then using it as much as possible (prolly the closest thing to a Barbarian you can get with magic)

PS.
Bob Town? ROFL

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