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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 23, 2009 02:38 PM |
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Very good. Now learning your berserk tricks makes sense 
But you need only 3 elves, not 11 and pray for no morale.
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Era II mods and utilities
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted December 23, 2009 02:43 PM |
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To be serious, you can use it in real battles. And this spell is damn powerful!
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Conan_dw
Hired Hero
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posted December 23, 2009 08:26 PM |
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what sense makes the third stack of elves? the oneelvestack, which is not killed by the drags.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 23, 2009 08:41 PM |
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Rainalcar
Promising
Famous Hero
Heroji su zakon
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posted December 23, 2009 11:29 PM |
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Good, but usually won't work for neutrals. Situations where you are seriously outmatched, and where berserk would be most useful for mentioned purpose, end up in opposing force divided in multiple stacks. And that is very hard to control.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 24, 2009 12:16 AM |
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I think Alex research on berserk is great. And this tactic is a direct result of that research. In fact, it opens new ways and possibilities for single mapmaking. Berserk is now more interesting to use.
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Era II mods and utilities
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted December 24, 2009 12:19 AM |
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Have to agree here. This elves tactic is awesome and outstanding.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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tynan
Tavern Dweller
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posted December 24, 2009 02:10 AM |
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I don't see how 9 elves can dish out 3000 points of damage (because these are Azure Dragons yes? They DO have 1000 hp each). Basically you only have 3 or 4 rounds in which to do this. At the most your elves could take out 1 (if your Attack skill was ridiculously high, and even then that is stretching it).
Is there something I'm missing here? Once the cannon fodder stacks are dead the Dragons breath on 9 elf stack = dead elves.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 24, 2009 03:24 AM |
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tynan
Tavern Dweller
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posted December 24, 2009 04:13 AM |
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Quote:
You need to read [url=http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=27539&pagenumber=7]THIS[/url] and then look at this pic, so you will get the idea how it is done:
So by having the ammo cart next to the elves, the ai sees this as a blocked angle of attack when Berserked? And with ammo cart having unlimited ammo, plus a high enough Spell Power to make Berserk last a a LOT of turns, the elves can fire ad infinitum until they win?
This seems like a glitch or a bug in the AI, as it seems to me that once the cannon fodder are gone, those 9 elves are now valid targets, and the ADs should toast them...
It's still a bit fuzzy as to the mechanics of it, I'm still not sure if I hit the key element in this.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 24, 2009 04:37 AM |
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It has nothing to do with the ammo cart, but how placing a 2 hex unit next to a berserked flying unit. Berserk is applied until the unit attacks, and in this case the unit will freeze for unknown reasons, so the spell last forever. The biggest Heroes glitch I saw in 10 years. The bad side is the high level spell, and usually by the time you get it you have the power to defeat 3 azures anyway.
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Era II mods and utilities
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tynan
Tavern Dweller
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posted December 24, 2009 05:32 AM |
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I liked the other tactic better, the one with the Utopia. At least it seems a legitimate use of Berserk, even though the losses were high. But he was fighting multiple groups of Dragons, so it was still a decisive victory as far as hit point-to-hit point ratio.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted December 24, 2009 07:33 AM |
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Quote:
You need: 1) at least Basic Tactics; 2) Berserk; 3) 20 mana points; 4) ammo cart.
If you don't have Tactics you still can use this trick. Take, for example, Ballista + (2+1+1+1) centaurs, or take elves + fodder + 1 centaur + 1 centaur and sacrifice the fodder stack.
In the utopia tactics (p. 14) you need force field to make all that trick work. But dragons don't attack your shooters for the same reason (they can't reach shooters within default attack because of force field).
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tynan
Tavern Dweller
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posted December 24, 2009 04:19 PM |
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Quote:
In the utopia tactics (p. 14) you need force field to make all that trick work. But dragons don't attack your shooters for the same reason (they can't reach shooters within default attack because of force field).
It's not the same because the force field legitimately blocks the Dragons from getting right next to them. In the elf/centaur glitch, there is a clear space right in front of the 9-stack elves where the ADs can slaughter them.
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martosss
Tavern Dweller
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posted December 28, 2009 10:04 AM |
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Edited by martosss at 10:22, 28 Dec 2009.
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WOW That berserk tactic is a hell of a bug  with it you can destroy any flying unit, as long as you have two-hex units and archers - use one two-hex unit as fodder, so the flying unit makes its move, then berserk it and position the second two-hex unit next to the flying dude, so the flying unit can't hit it, and you're done! now all you have to do is kill that motherkisser with archers, or harpies, or something fast enough and watch not to spoil the spell
Now I saw, that scenery works too - if there's a bush and you stand on one side, the berserked unit on the other and it is berserked, it won't fly, it will stay bugged in its position forever very niice
As far as I understand, that tactic is valid only for flying snows, that is if I'm fighting behemots for example it won't work, they'll just hit me, right?
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koelle
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 28, 2009 11:08 AM |
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donīt you also need that black orb, or can you cast berserk on AD anytime you want?
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koelle
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted December 28, 2009 11:16 AM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 12:07, 28 Dec 2009.
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Quote:
As far as I understand, that tactic is valid only for flying snows, that is if I'm fighting behemots for example it won't work, they'll just hit me, right?
Nope. You can stop walkers too in some cases.
Behemoths think they can reach that centaur but when they are going to do their attack nothing happens because, actually, behemoths can't reach centaur's 'back'!
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted December 28, 2009 03:33 PM |
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Quote:
donīt you also need that black orb, or can you cast berserk on AD anytime you want?
Azure Dragons are not immune to level 4 spells.....
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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SAG
Promising
Supreme Hero
WCL owner
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posted December 29, 2009 10:21 AM |
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most likely now you can predict when AI wait instead of killing fodder
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I play HoMM3 at www.heroes-
III.com
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martosss
Tavern Dweller
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posted December 29, 2009 10:59 AM |
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I get it, it's very nice, so this spell becomes a very powerful tool for exterminating a single stack of a lot of units with a small aamount of units, mainly archers and a fodder, that's what I call a very useful tactic, though it's something like a bug, because if I were that behemoth I would have just moved and hit the centaur in the head 
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