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| Thread: Israel Kills A U.N. Aid Worker |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Wolfman
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posted November 30, 2002 05:29 PM |
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privatehudson
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posted November 30, 2002 05:49 PM |
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Methinks wolfman's been holding too many conversations with himself again 
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Wolfman
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posted November 30, 2002 06:22 PM |
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You can't all be perfect like me!
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privatehudson
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posted November 30, 2002 07:25 PM |
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Or insane......... like you 
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Wolfman
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posted December 01, 2002 02:54 AM |
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Back on topic methinks.
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Nidhgrin
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posted December 02, 2002 12:23 AM |
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Hmm, this thread definitely has some potential. But since it seems to be going horribly off topic I am rating it average.
I have to agree with IYY on some points. It's not because something has been on the news or in the papers that it is de facto right. The reality can be exaggerated, twisted or even completely different. I'm not saying it will be like that in this case. But be careful with what you learn in the media...
Killing an aid worker is an unforgivably crual act. I don't care whether it was a UN worker or anyone else. Any life lost to guns is one death too many. Unfortunately people who really stick their heads out to work towards peace are rare and they often meet with fierce resistance amongst their own ranks. I hope that Israel gives birth to another white dove some day. Someone who will get the fighting parties around the table again and really make steps forward. The previous good man who tried this has departed from this world at the moment when both societies needed him most... who knows how many lives could have been saved if he had still been with us?
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IYY
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posted December 02, 2002 12:36 AM |
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I see your point but the "Killing an aid worker is an unforgivably crual act." bit is a bit too much. I mean, it is obvious that if this happened as described it was an accident. It is impossible for it to have been any other way. And if it is an accident, it is indeed very unfortunate but accidents do happen. It's hard to expect a completly accident free war, and the UN worker was in a war zone.
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The previous good man who tried this has departed from this world at the moment when both societies needed him most... who knows how many lives could have been saved if he had still been with us?
Are you referring to Prime Minister Itzhak Rabin?
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privatehudson
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posted December 02, 2002 12:39 AM |
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Well he sure wasn't referring to sharon or that idiot Arafat!
Wasn't he shot by an Israeli?
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Nidhgrin
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posted December 02, 2002 12:43 AM |
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How can you ever kill a person by accident by using a gun? You can kill someone by accident by driving over someone or accidentally dropping something from a roof and hitting someone on the head. But shooting someone innocent to shreds with a gun? People who do this should never be alowed anywhere near weapons.
And yes, I was referring to Rabin. May his god have his soul and may he rest in a peacefuller place. I wished there were more people like him, everyone around the world.
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IYY
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posted December 02, 2002 01:01 AM |
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Yes, he was shot by an Israeli - and he was working for the party that everybody in Israel hates which consists of religious fanatics who want to start a war as much as the palestinians. Mind you, this party is not in control and as I said is disliked by the general public.
As for accidents- they can happen with a gun, here are a few cases:
1) This is a very long distance range, there are enemies all around. If one of them has a gun he will kill you without second thought. You see a person with what, from that distance, looks exactly like a gun. You shoot and later discover that he was a UN worker.
2) Same case as in above, but the soldier has reletivly poor vision and that is why he was not able to distinguish between the cell phone and the gun.
3) "During our operation, Palestinian gunmen opened fire on our forces. A battle erupted -- massive exchanges of fire in which we understand a U.N. official was hit,"
In the heat of battle, it is not unlikley at all that one bullet would hit an innocent if he is standing in the middle of the whole mess. You can't expect perfect aim, plus the guy -was- on the enemy side and had an object that looked like a gun. I am sure that 50% of people would have concidered him a target in the situation.
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Nidhgrin
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posted December 02, 2002 01:16 AM |
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That is possible, but nobody can deny that Rabin has accomplished (or nearly) fantastic things.
As for the examples of accidents you describe, yes that's exactly what I meant. Only point 3 could be considered to be an accidental casualty. Innocents wandering through crossfire will get hit by accident, true. But I strongly doubt a UN aid worker would run into a battlefield area on purpose risking his life with bullets flying by.
The two other actions are imho not accidents at all. The soldiers shot to kill, and if they shot from such a distance, what fear did they have from someone with a handgun (which a cell phone could be interpreted as) that couldn't even reach them? You could call this a grave mistake of judgement perhaps, but not an accident. These things do happen in wartimes, but they cannot be justified even then.
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IYY
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posted December 02, 2002 01:27 AM |
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Oops... I believe that what I said in my first point was very poorly worded. I meant to say that the guy who killed Rabin was in an unsupported party. Rabin himself was prime minister and the leader of the Avoda, meaning that he was very supported and loved by most of Israel.
As for those two cases, maybe they are not exactly accidents but you can't say they are as bad as aiming at a UN worker, and trying to kill him knowing what he does and who he is - this is clearly not the case. Maybe the soldier is to blame, but it would be for carelessness with arms and not for murder.
As for the UN worker being in the middle of battle, I think that the battle started when he was in the area. The fact that he was shot in the back only proves this point as he was trying to get away from the battle field.
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Nidhgrin
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posted December 02, 2002 01:37 AM |
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Hehe no problem, though you did confuse me there for a moment
True, you can't compare this with murder in cold blood. Unfortunately this still is a war, and decisions are probably made very quickly and with a short or absolutely no rational thinking process between seeing something suspicious and pulling the trigger. It's only such a shame that a neutral someone who was there to help got the victim of the fighting parties.
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IYY
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posted December 02, 2002 01:39 AM |
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Agreed
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privatehudson
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posted December 02, 2002 02:11 AM |
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*warning completely shocking post coming up*
I have to in some aspects agree with IYY, I geuss the moral of this story is that there are pleanty of Jewish people and some members of the government there who are genuinely sorry that this happened. Would arafat care other than it loosing him some UN support? Not likely. At least I geuss it was a mistake, it would just be nice to hear an appology from the government of Israel rather than the usual "war is hell, these things happen" line.
*watches IYY collapse with a heart attack as PH has actually agreed on something with him*
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IYY
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posted December 02, 2002 03:44 AM |
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Wow! You kinda agree with me!
*IYY collapse with a heart attack as PH has actually agreed on something with him* 
And from me:
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At least I geuss it was a mistake, it would just be nice to hear an appology from the government of Israel rather than the usual "war is hell, these things happen" line.
I agree with that, too
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privatehudson
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posted December 02, 2002 03:50 AM |
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To quote a song title
"It's the end of the world as we know it"
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Wolfman
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posted December 03, 2002 04:32 AM |
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PH, you are always saying that the U.S. has bad policies...
In WWII, why did the British government authorize bombings of their own cities by double agents?
Seems kind of stupid, the only reason I can see is for the British double agents to "prove" their aligence to Germany.
No one was killed in these bombings, although the Germans said that 150 people were killed. But still...
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privatehudson
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posted December 03, 2002 11:06 AM |
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Why would anyone do that? Simply is there some advantage to it, in this case it sounds like a rumour as I've never heard of it specifically, kinda like the one about america knowing about pearl harbour..........
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Wolfman
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posted December 03, 2002 11:18 PM |
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It came from London.
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