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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Fortress - the weakest one..?
Thread: Fortress - the weakest one..? This thread is 6 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT»
Odvin
Odvin


Promising
Famous Hero
posted December 20, 2002 04:54 PM

Quote:
fortress and stronghold for example is pure might attacking towns.


One small comment: fortress is purely might defending town, since it has the highest defense rate from among all the towns, being opposite to Stronghold on this.
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HeyYou
HeyYou


Known Hero
and beloved food provider.
posted December 20, 2002 04:56 PM

Quote:
So you think a stronghold army will do you no harm? Wait until Hack comes with that army and mass hastes his troops. Then the battle is over before it has started for you.


Because I won't have Haste either?
Let me haste my Dragonflies (already pretty quick), Chaos Hydras, Mighty Gorgons, and Wyvern Monarchs. My chaos Hydras will be no-retal-attacking two or three of your stacks, your Behemoths will be Weaknessed, and probably Death Stared as well, and somebody might be poisoned.

And I never said Stronghold wouldn't do me any harm - I just said I didn't like that castle (actually, I said it sux, but that's really more from a personal-preference viewpoint than anything else).

* Poison from the Wyverns is better than Lightning Strike from the T-birds.

* The shooters are about equal.

* Ogre Magi are cool, but Dragonflies Dispel + Weakness beats out 3 Bloodlusts.

* Behemoth's Defense Ignore about equals out the no-retal of the Hydras.

* Death Stare simply kicks all kinds of @$$.
____________
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."
~ Hanlon's Razor

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Odvin
Odvin


Promising
Famous Hero
posted December 23, 2002 03:45 PM
Edited By: Odvin on 23 Dec 2002

Fortress - not the weakest one

In this post I'm going to prove that Fortress isn't the weakest town in Heroes III.

PART 1. CREATURES
Fortress' creatures don't seem very powerful on the first sight, as do some other creatures from

other towns. However, they have lots of dangerous special abilities which can often turn the result

of the battle on their side. They are durable enough, though slow. The bad side is lack of

shooters.

Legend for creatures: HP/Dmg/Att/Def/Spd/Cost/Growth/Shots/Abilities

Level 1. Gnolls & Gnoll Marauders
Gnolls: 6/2-3/3/5/4/50 gold/12/-/-
Gnoll Marauders: 6/2-3/4/6/5/70 gold/12/-/-
Average 1st level infantry. These creatures aren't as powerful as Pikemen/Halberdiers or

Centaurs/Centaur Captains, for example. However, they can do good damage, and are not very

expensive.

Level 2. Lizardmen & Lizard Warriors
Lizardmen: 14/2-3/5/6/4/110 gold/9/12/-
Lizard Warriors: 15/2-5/6/8/5/140 gold/9/24/-
Being the only shooters available in Fortress, these creatures are stronger since SoD. When

blessed, the upgrade can do quite good damage.

Level 3. Serpent Flies & Dragon Flies
Serpent Flies: 20/2-5/7/9/9/220 gold/8/-/Dispels benefical spells
Dragon Flies: 20/2-5/8/10/13/240 gold/8/-/Dispels benefical spells, casts weakness
Serpent Flies always dispel all the benefical spells on their target, and Dragon Flies also always

cast weakness on them. Having 13 speed, Dragon Flies are often able to reach the other side of the

battlefield in one round, therefore being very useful for taking out the enemy shooters.

Level 4. Basilisks & Greater Basilisks
Basilisks: 35/6-10/11/11/5/325 gold/4/-/Petrifying attack
Greater Basilisks: 40/6-10/12/12/7/400 gold/4/-/Petrifying attack
Basilisks and their upgraded version are among the best 4th level troops in the game. Though rather

slow, they can be very dangerous. Their petrifying attack (20% chance to turn the target into stone

for 3 rounds) makes them even more valuable.

Level 5. Gorgons & Mighty Gorgons
Gorgons: 70/12-16/10/14/5/525 gold/3/-/-
Mighty Gorgons: 70/12-16/11/16/6/600 gold/-/Death stare
Mighty Gorgon is a legendary creature. Its Death stare has 10% chance for killing one creature from

enemy stack for every 10 Mighty Gorgons. Therefore, they become the best 7th level slayers in the

game. Let's see how much Archangels can 30 Mighty Gorgons and 30 Minotaur Kings kill in one attack

(with average damage):

Archangels: HP 250, Def 30.

Mighty Gorgons have average damage of 14. Therefore their damage will be:
30*(14*0.3) = 126 HP (approx. 1/2 of the Archangel's health)
But with their death stare they can kill up to 3 Archangels. So, the result will be 3.5 Archangels

killed.

Minotaur Kings have average damage of 16. Their damage will be:
30*(16*0.3) = 144 HP. That's all!

Even without this ability, these creatures are very healthy, have great defense and do good damage.

Gorgons and Mighty Gorgons can perhaps be called the best 5th level creatures in the game.

Level 6. Wyverns & Wyvern Monarchs
Wyverns: 70/14-18/14/14/7/800 gold/2/-/-
Wyvern Monarchs: 70/18-22/14/14/11/1100 gold/2/-/Poisoning attack
Definetely not the best 6th level creatures, but Wyverns are valuable because they can often be

acquired even on first day. And having 4-6 creatures of 6th level (even weak ones) is very useful

on the 2nd week, isn't it? Plus the Wyvern Monarchs' poison reduces the health of the WHOLE enemy

stack (not of the top creature, as mentioned in the help) by 10%, with the maximum being 50%.

Wyverns are flying and their upgrade is rather quick, which increases their value.

Level 7. Hydras & Chaos Hydras
Hydras: 175/25-45/16/18/5/2200 gold/1/-/Multi-headed non-retaliated attack
Chaos Hydras: 250/25-45/18/20/7/3500 gold + 1 sulf/1/-/Multi-headed non-retaliated attack
Strength of these monsters is partly hidden behind their weakenss - low speed. However, you can

Haste or Teleport them, and once they enter the heat of battle, they become really great - their

attack strikes all the surrounding enemy stacks, without retaliation from their side. Hydras are

also quite durable and rather cheap, compared to other creatures of their level.

PART 2. HEROES
Beastmaster and Witch hero classes are assigned to the Fortress. Beastmaster is a warrior strongly

focused on defense (60% chance to raise defense per level at 2-9 levels; 30% at 10+ level). Witch

is a mage with high chance to raise Sp.Power or Knowledge (40% at 2-9 levels; 30% at 10+ level).
All the Beastmasters start with Armorer secondary skill. From them, the most popular pick is Tazar

(specialty - Armorer), who starts with Adv.Armorer and increases its effect by 5% per level. Also

Alkin (specialty - Gorgons) is a good hero: he's good for starting with Bas.Armorer and Bas.Offense

skills, which are very important for might-oriented heroes; plus, he increases the speed of Gorgons

under his command by 1 and increases their Attack and Defense by 1 per each level gained after 5th

level - this makes the Gorgons even more dangerous than they are. Bron (specialty - Basilisks)

usually starts with 5-7 Basilisks in his army ranks, which can be useful for early exploration.

Bron increases the Basilisks' speed by 1 and Attack and Defense by 1 per each level gained after

4th level. He also starts with Bas.Resistance.
It's much more difficult to choose from Witches, because their proficiency with magic becomes less

useful considering the Fortress' might orientation (max. 3rd level Mage Guild). All the Witches

start with Wisdom secondary skill. There's one special hero among Witches - it's Adrienne. She is

obviously the best Witch, because she starts with Exp.Fire Magic. This can be really great if you

have access to higher spells like Berserk. Anyway, she is normally disabled in maps so you will

rarely be able to play her. From normal Witches, the most useless are Tiva (specialty - Eagle Eye),

Mirlanda (specialty - Weakness) and Merist (specialty - Stone Skin). The worth of other heroes

depends upon the situation. If you have access to high-level direct damage spells, Styg (specialty

- Sorcery) may become useful. Voy (specialty - Navigation) can be a sea scout. Verdish (specialty -

First Aid) starts with First Aid Tent, which may be good.

PART 3. MAGIC
In Fortress there's a big problem with magic. Both level 4 and 5 Mage Guilds cannot be built there.

Therefore, swamp dwellers have access to spells of only first three levels.

Level 1
Here, only Curse is completely disabled for Fortress. Small chance for Protection from Fire and

Protection from Water; a bit more chance to get Shield, Bloodlust, Stoneskin and Slow; good chances

for Haste; Magic Arrow shows up almost always, as in any other town.

Level 2
Very high chance to get Ice Bolt, but quite low for Lighting Bolt. Very small chances to get

Protection from Air, small chances for Firewall, Precision, Remove Obstacle, Luck and Weakness,

normal for Quicksand, Blind and Disrupting Ray. Death Ripple spell is disabled in Fortress.

Level 3
Very small chances for Land Mine, Destroy Undead, Mirth, Misfortune and Fireball. Small for

Forcefield, Air Shield, Forgetfulness, Hypnotize and Frost Ring. Very high for Earthquake. Quite

big chance to get Anti-Magic. Protection from Earth and Animate Dead are disabled. Chance to get

Teleport is higher than in any other town (that's very good because slow units need it).

PART 4. BONUSES
Being the most defense-focused town in Heroes III, Fortress has several very useful defense

bonuses. First of all, the 2-hexed moat makes it 1 round longer for enemy infantry to get behind

the castle walls. Glyphs of Fear and Blood Obelisk give +2 Attack and Defense during enemy siege.

Building Glyphs of Fear also allows Cage of Warlords that gives +1 Defense for each visiting hero

permanently.
The Fortress' Blacksmith sells First Aid Tents. Fortress can build shipyards - this is a gift

available only to Fortress, Castle, Necropolis and Conflux town types. Resource Siloprovides +1

wood and ore per day (this is useful because Fortress needs lots of wood). Captain's Quarters (+6

Gnolls/week) compensate the Gnolls' low growth.
The Carnivorous Plant, which is built when you bring the Grail to a Fortress, provides +5000

gold/day, +50% creature growth in the town, and +10 Attack and Defense for the defending hero

during sieges.

====
From all the above points we can say that Fortress is surely an above average town. Though not

shocking with its power like Castle or Tower, this town can be very dangerous and powerful tool.

Nasty creatures' special abilities, combined with not so big prices (except wood), make a good mix.
Conclusion: Fortress isn't the weakest one.
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Sir_Stiven
Sir_Stiven


Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
posted December 23, 2002 04:01 PM

bla bla bla, the way i see it there are no weak/strong towns... i just find some towns really fun to play and some kinda boring. Usually if you think a town sucks its just because you dunno how to play it, get your fortress army mass haste and teleport and its a really really good town. Its very speciality reliable yes but i know that some players like this too, myself i prefer the towns where i know which creatures which will do what for me. Like castle is fun, rampart i like...stronghold is getting more and more fun to play. It also depends alot on which mood i am, but towns like tower and inferno is towns that i myself dont enjoy playing. Running around with only shooters or getting your head all twist up in maths to get most possible demons isnt the way i wanna play this game. My these are just my personal preferences as said, since a random map play i am i also dont prefer to play necro or cflux. They are simply to powerful.

conclusion: no town is "better" than the other, its all a matter of personal favourites, just like most units... you like the titan, i like the ancient benemoth and so on. Still you cant say that one is better than the other because it all depends on situation.

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Lord_Woock
Lord_Woock


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
posted December 23, 2002 06:19 PM

True, true...
____________
Yolk and God bless.
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Majin
Majin


Hired Hero
Lord of Brimstone
posted December 24, 2002 06:18 AM
Edited By: Majin on 24 Dec 2002

Fortress is tricky to play, but its not bad.
____________
"Barbarians might be tough, but shadow knights are tough and use magic"

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Lord_Woock
Lord_Woock


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
posted December 24, 2002 10:47 AM

On small maps I say go for mighty moos and trample anything in eyeshot.
____________
Yolk and God bless.
---
My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!

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NightShade
NightShade

Tavern Dweller
posted December 26, 2002 08:13 PM

I like Fortress mainly cause of Gorgons and Hydra's. I think Hydra's are one of the best lvl 7 creatures cause when you attack 2 stacks you already did far more damage than most other lvl 7's could. (they love bless, too! )

Hmm... i like Dragon Flies a lot, too!
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LordLazy
LordLazy


Promising
Famous Hero
Wood cleaner
posted January 04, 2003 07:51 AM

Also worth metioning in this thread is the fact that, NO OTHER TOWN IS AS VULNERABLE TO MALEKITH AND HIS HIGH POWER DIRECT DAMAGE SPELL AS ANY OTHER TOWN, COZ FORTRESS IS MEANT TO ABSORB DAMAGE, AND NOT DO IT, BY THIS I MEAN THAT MALEKITHS ARMY WILL SURVIVE LONGER AND MALEKITH WILL BE ABLE TO CAST MORE SPELLS, ESPECIALLY ON THE HIGH LVL UNITS, BRINGING DOWN THE *NOT TOO HIGH IN HEALTH UNITS FROM FORTRESS*, AND WHAT UNITS IS LEFT NOW, WHEN FORTRESS FINALLY REACHES MALEKITHS FORCES? YEP, HIS LOW LVL UNITS, WHICH WONT HAVE MUCH HIGHER DEFENSE THAN MALEKITHS HIGH LVL UNITS, WHICH STILL IS ALIVE.......................... phew, thats a long sentence

Short, high lvl beastmaster facing high level malekith (or any other warlock(yes, even the eagle eye one )) u'd better pray, when this hero is in the hands of a reasonable smart player...

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Largo_LeGrande
Largo_LeGrande


Promising
Known Hero
from the Carribean
posted January 04, 2003 03:51 PM

How does the poison of the Wywerns actually work?
____________
-Largo has spoken-

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PsYkOtIc-Dra...
PsYkOtIc-Dragoon


Known Hero
Master Thief
posted January 06, 2003 01:19 AM

Simple...it lowers the poisoned stacks max HP
____________
Girls=Evil - Here let me show you -> Girl=My Time -> Time=Money -> Money=Root Of All Evil, Therefore -> Girls=Pure Evil

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tewilligar
tewilligar


Famous Hero
Just another willigar
posted January 06, 2003 09:08 AM

i agree with stiven,each town has it's ups and downs. something to take into concideration is map style and % difficulty chosen. most of the time,random maps played on 100 difficulty level,castle rocks pretty hard,but fortress imo is the only town that can keep up
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ZZZZzzzzZZZZzzzz

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Apophis
Apophis


Known Hero
Creeping Death
posted January 06, 2003 03:13 PM

quote:
____________________________________________________________
Also worth metioning in this thread is the fact that, NO OTHER TOWN IS AS VULNERABLE TO MALEKITH AND HIS HIGH POWER DIRECT DAMAGE SPELL AS ANY OTHER TOWN, COZ FORTRESS IS MEANT TO ABSORB DAMAGE, AND NOT DO IT, BY THIS I MEAN THAT MALEKITHS ARMY WILL SURVIVE LONGER AND MALEKITH WILL BE ABLE TO CAST MORE SPELLS, ESPECIALLY ON THE HIGH LVL UNITS, BRINGING DOWN THE *NOT TOO HIGH IN HEALTH UNITS FROM FORTRESS*, AND WHAT UNITS IS LEFT NOW, WHEN FORTRESS FINALLY REACHES MALEKITHS FORCES? YEP, HIS LOW LVL UNITS, WHICH WONT HAVE MUCH HIGHER DEFENSE THAN MALEKITHS HIGH LVL UNITS, WHICH STILL IS ALIVE.......................... phew, thats a long sentence

Short, high lvl beastmaster facing high level malekith (or any other warlock(yes, even the eagle eye one )) u'd better pray, when this hero is in the hands of a reasonable smart player...
____________________________________________________________

On big maps when you are facing a big army offensiv spells are not a good choice (except expert implosion) and usually beastmasters get resistance (the artifacts that increase it are not that hard to find). Would you risk to cast an offensiv spell when you know the enemy's units can resist it? So you'd better not waste your spells 'cause once the fortress units will reach your units that game is over for you. And fortress creature have good heath.

By the way L22 Tazar have about 32% armorer. I think Malekith should pray.
____________
Ars Moriendi

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Largo_LeGrande
Largo_LeGrande


Promising
Known Hero
from the Carribean
posted January 06, 2003 05:50 PM

Quote:
Simple...it lowers the poisoned stacks max HP


Permanently? How much? Could you give me an example like what would happen if 100 monks (30 hp) get poisoned?
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Apophis
Apophis


Known Hero
Creeping Death
posted January 06, 2003 05:56 PM

25% per round. So a stack of  archangels (250 HP) after 3 rounds will have 175 HP. The spell afects the unit stack only 3 times.
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Ars Moriendi

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Nidhgrin
Nidhgrin


Honorable
Famous Hero
baking cookies from stardust
posted January 06, 2003 06:06 PM

The "Cure" spell dispells the poison and sets a stack's hitpoints back to normal.  Dispel does not work to fix this!

I'm not sure, but I think 50% hitpoints reduction is the maximum you can ever get, and I thought it reduced 10% each turn for a total of 2 turns, plus the initial poisoning (meaning 30%).

Thus, an archangel losing max hitpoints to poison goes down to 225, then 200, then 175.  But for an ancient behemoth it would go down like this: 270, 240 on its' next turn, and 210 at the beginning of its' second turn after the poisoning.

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Apophis
Apophis


Known Hero
Creeping Death
posted January 06, 2003 06:33 PM

10%...yap you're right, but I don't think a poisoned unit can get poison again. I think 30% HP reduction is the maximum. I mean I saw WMs poisoning units that were already poisoned but I don't think their health was reduced any more.
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Ars Moriendi

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LordLazy
LordLazy


Promising
Famous Hero
Wood cleaner
posted January 06, 2003 08:29 PM

Quote:
quote:
____________________________________________________________
Also worth metioning in this thread is the fact that, NO OTHER TOWN IS AS VULNERABLE TO MALEKITH AND HIS HIGH POWER DIRECT DAMAGE SPELL AS ANY OTHER TOWN, COZ FORTRESS IS MEANT TO ABSORB DAMAGE, AND NOT DO IT, BY THIS I MEAN THAT MALEKITHS ARMY WILL SURVIVE LONGER AND MALEKITH WILL BE ABLE TO CAST MORE SPELLS, ESPECIALLY ON THE HIGH LVL UNITS, BRINGING DOWN THE *NOT TOO HIGH IN HEALTH UNITS FROM FORTRESS*, AND WHAT UNITS IS LEFT NOW, WHEN FORTRESS FINALLY REACHES MALEKITHS FORCES? YEP, HIS LOW LVL UNITS, WHICH WONT HAVE MUCH HIGHER DEFENSE THAN MALEKITHS HIGH LVL UNITS, WHICH STILL IS ALIVE.......................... phew, thats a long sentence

Short, high lvl beastmaster facing high level malekith (or any other warlock(yes, even the eagle eye one )) u'd better pray, when this hero is in the hands of a reasonable smart player...
____________________________________________________________

On big maps when you are facing a big army offensiv spells are not a good choice (except expert implosion) and usually beastmasters get resistance (the artifacts that increase it are not that hard to find). Would you risk to cast an offensiv spell when you know the enemy's units can resist it? So you'd better not waste your spells 'cause once the fortress units will reach your units that game is over for you. And fortress creature have good heath.

By the way L22 Tazar have about 32% armorer. I think Malekith should pray.


I guess you would have to sit more in front of the computer playin heroes before answering.... no offense

When u have lvl22 Tazar, I should probably have about the same lvl myself, remember I will do more damage with my damage spells, and bout this time, I WILL!!! have dangerous spells, And I WILL!!!! also have Might skills like armorer and offense! Wheres the Malekith prayin now?!!

And I might also have Armageddon too!!! But then Of course, youre dead anyway
____________
Tagged officially as Noobegian two years ago. This typographic material is strictly copyrighted. All situations containing abuse will be brought to court.

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Hackytheconq...
Hackytheconquerer


Hired Hero
who comes cheap
posted January 07, 2003 05:27 AM

i just happen to think every type of town has a round about the same advantages and disadvantages

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Apophis
Apophis


Known Hero
Creeping Death
posted January 08, 2003 01:03 AM

After 4 months of playing I'll have about 26-28 Chaos Hydras and about 84 Mighty Gorgons and your meteor shower will be like 1500 damage (6 CHs or 21 MGs). You'll cast your offensive spell and I'll cast expert haste or expert prayer then all I need is an expert bless and your army will crushed in 3 rounds. Can't you get it Lazy? In these kind of battles you must use mass spells or powerfull spells like bersek or clone or sacrifice, offensive spells are useless here. Malekith's speciality is useless.
Lazy for the last time: MIGHT OVER MAGIC DUDE.

About your tongue...you should see a doctor dude.

____________
Ars Moriendi

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