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| Thread: LordLazy's guide to magic heroes |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Demarest
Known Hero
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posted March 29, 2007 07:18 AM |
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Demarest, a spell even if it is implosion, is never as powerful as a red orb.
I thought I commented on this already, eh? What you're saying is that in a game of 123 artifacts, magic heroes all fail because of ONE relic artifact that you don't even have the majority of the time, let alone always. Not to mention that with the exception of a hero that is running around with fire-resistant creatures and an Armageddon, no magic hero is relying on magic ALONE anyways.
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Might heroes can learn magic too, spells like resurrection for example.
Twice maybe? Magic heroes have creatures that can fight too. The difference being that magic heroes can cast spells more times per battle, and with greater potency. Some people prefer that. Just because YOU or even a bunch of people prefer might doesn't mean magic is all washed up.
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Only direct damage helps
This has been one of my points from square one. That people who do not use magic heroes should not be writing guides on using magic heroes. That you can say the above shows that you've never played a magic hero or against a good one. Nevertheless, the bottom line is NOT whether might or magic is better. I'm sure there's no less than 100 threads here that discuss this, be it the topic or a drift in the thread. THIS topic was originally started to be a guide to magic heroes. And having played them myself, I feel that it was written by somebody who also believes might is the only way and just wanted to give "the other side" a fair shake.
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Demarest
Known Hero
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posted March 29, 2007 08:29 AM |
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I dont mind explaining stuff to newbies, but dude you sound like you know something lol. And trust me, you dont..
I know that there's more to life that trying to flex how much better one is than everybody else.
I don't even know what's triggered this outburst. I've been playing the game since Armageddon's Blade. I know a great deal about the game. I've also seen enough around here to know that I'm not very good at the game. I've stated this many times over and asked for the input of others in several places. Feel free to check. Go on, you can feel better about yourself for being a better person than me.
If however, you are genuinely concerned with somebody talking like they know something, what about the person making such closed-minded statements as magic heroes can only use direct damage? Or that magic heroes cannot fight might heroes? Hint: It wasn't me. In fact, I'm the one that's been saying it's a matter of preference. Oh, and I'm also the one that plays magic heroes, but have been starting off with might heroes since reading around this forum.
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No magic creatures can not fight against might creatures. This simply cannot be stretched enough. You will sit there and think, snow i dont do any damage and take a snowload of it.
I'll have to take your word for it. In all the games I've played over the years, I've been in many battles where the opposition had a massive advantage in the battle and I came out on top, often with minimal losses.
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About your comment that i shouldnt talk about it.. lol
I never said anything like that.
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have you every played in ToH?
So if I've only just found this forum, I'm not allowed to point out that the Orb of Inhibition is a relic class artifact? I'm not allowed to point out that the topic of the thread was to be a guide to use magic heroes? I'm happy for you that you've got the golden pass to treat others in a demeaning fashion. I came here to speak with helpful individuals and I'm glad that many of them are.
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idiotpariah
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 29, 2007 10:27 AM |
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Just to stick my ore in. I like to think I know heroes well (ducks into foxhole) but the online games i play are with my wife or friends, not for tournaments.
I am curious though, for these tournaments- how much do the rules for these tournaments affect your standing on this. You play maps which seem to have a lot of creature banks and dragon utopias. It seems that fly/dd/town portal are banned (this alone swings things towards might). If you play against someone with a magic hero with 2-300 Spell points and dimension door on a large/XL map- do you really think you will win. If its from the default random template with very high/impossible difficulty so you can;t hire a snowload of scouts or build up to level 6/7 creatures in week 1.
If you are playing a might town you will not get these spells unless extremely luck with a utopia or you find another town to build up- because your guild only goes to level 3/4. The tower has a decent chance of one or more of these spells.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted March 29, 2007 10:49 AM |
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All I can say is, come to Gamespy, chose your magic hero and start playing. No matter if it is a custom made template for random maps, or an original template from 3DO.
We all started as single players. We played tons of games on 200% vs the comp and beat him every time. We all thought: NO1 can beat me. I am the best heroes player of the world!!
Then we entered the multiplayer world. We faced human opponents instead of dumb computer players. We faced very good and experienced human players. We got beaten badly right before we upgraded our level 4 creature..
What I wanna say is, all this theoretical discussion won't help much. It is always the same. New players (new to multiplayer) can't be convinced by posts and hints. They have to learn it in practice.
I could tell ya every day, it is WRONG a "magic hero can cast more often on a battlefield than a might hero", because a magic hero will be dead before he has used most of his spellpoints.
A might hero also gets expert air magic and could use dimension door 4 times a day. He could even use fly more effective, because he will have logistics most of the time. He could use townportal like any other magic hero. And yes, he will have AT LEAST the same amount of spellpoints as the magic hero! Why? Because he did so many more fights than the magic hero did, so he has a much higher level, has probably much more artifatcs which raise stats, and may have found some great relics (tomes) which give him the ability to cast all these spells without having wisdom as secondary skill.
Forget about endfights with 100 or more level 7 units. This just doesn't happen in multiplayer games. those games end in first month 80% of the time, and in week 6 95% of the time. With those armies, level 1 and level 2 spells will decide most games. A might hero with tactics will cast mass haste and kill at least 80% of your army in round 1. What will help you now? Chainlightning? Resurrection?, Waterwalk?
Singleplayer and multiplayer are TWO DIFFERENT worlds. I made this experience myself. I play this game for more than 10 years now. But when I entered the multiplayer faction, I recognized what a weak player I was (am ).
Just come online and try. Then post here again..
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Demarest
Known Hero
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posted March 29, 2007 11:01 AM |
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My apologies. I thought the subject of this thread was using a magic hero, not debating who's superior.
My observation was those those that slam magic heroes seem to always talk about direct damage as if that's what a magic hero does.
When I play Castle, it's not uncommon for me to take 3 Angels, use them to break various gold buildings, then take 5 Archangels and take out Griffin Conservatories and set off with a dozen Archangels to knock over Utopias and such. In most games I play as Castle, it's these same dozen AA's that are taking on weeks upon weeks of upgraded full armies with no loss. It's not because the PC is too dumb to cast mass Haste or not take Tactics on level up. It's because my hero has NOT shyed away from fighting, has plenty of artifacts to mimmic stats of a might hero (just as a might hero gets artifacts to have comparable magic stats to a magic hero), and a nice selection of spells with which to manipulate the battlefield. Against might heroes 
This is, after all, a game. Everybody SHOULD enjoy it. And the title is Heroes of Might and Magic. So players should be comfy with playing magic heroes too and if a topic is made about it, it should be encouraging the power of the magic side and not come off as a plea to might heroes to "let their hair down." Is that unreasonable?
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idiotpariah
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 29, 2007 03:51 PM |
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A might hero also gets expert air magic and could use dimension door 4 times a day. He could even use fly more effective, because he will have logistics most of the time. He could use townportal like any other magic hero. And yes, he will have AT LEAST the same amount of spellpoints as the magic hero!
You got a level 5 spell from a level3/4 mage guild? Truly you are the master! 
Most of the players on this forum probably are far better than me but statements suggesting that might heroes always win are just nonsense and I suggest this is exacerbated by your tourney rules/map/template choices. If I'm a magic hero and my first town (tower) gets Dimension Door and you are sitting in your stronghold giggling over your mass haste you will lose unless you are fortunae enough to get it.
Equally if I do get DD I will very quickly clear the map of all the best artifacts, utopias and so on. I can even have a secondary hero assigned to clear all areas ahead of your main and teleport away just reduce what you can find (especially easy if there is an underground).
Also a lot of your arguments are always "the might hero also has expert earth and air magic anyway"- a lot of the time maybe. At the same time the magic hero will often have tactics and logistics- I almost never end a game with my main hero lacking logistics (even before i switched to WOG).
Might wins 90% of the time, I can probably accept this statement although I have no real experience of tourneys, 100% I find a bit much.
For you hardcore powergamers who have tried WOG- do you feel the balance between might and magic has changed any?
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idiotpariah
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 29, 2007 04:00 PM |
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Incidentally, how do i play on gamespy? The options for internet gaming doesn't seem to have gamespy
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted March 29, 2007 04:14 PM |
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You got a level 5 spell from a level3/4 mage guild? Truly you are the master!
Hmmm....where did I say that?
Ever heard of "tome of air", "spellscrolls", "spellbinders hat"?
Is it even possible for a might hero to find other neutral towns besides his starting town? Like a Tower town, a Dungeon town for example?
How to play online on Gamespy is described here.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Frick
Known Hero
and eternal n00b.
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posted March 29, 2007 05:02 PM |
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All I can say is, come to Gamespy, chose your magic hero and start playing. No matter if it is a custom made template for random maps, or an original template from 3DO.
We all started as single players. We played tons of games on 200% vs the comp and beat him every time. We all thought: NO1 can beat me. I am the best heroes player of the world!!
Then we entered the multiplayer world. We faced human opponents instead of dumb computer players. We faced very good and experienced human players. We got beaten badly right before we upgraded our level 4 creature..
What I wanna say is, all this theoretical discussion won't help much. It is always the same. New players (new to multiplayer) can't be convinced by posts and hints. They have to learn it in practice.
I could tell ya every day, it is WRONG a "magic hero can cast more often on a battlefield than a might hero", because a magic hero will be dead before he has used most of his spellpoints.
A might hero also gets expert air magic and could use dimension door 4 times a day. He could even use fly more effective, because he will have logistics most of the time. He could use townportal like any other magic hero. And yes, he will have AT LEAST the same amount of spellpoints as the magic hero! Why? Because he did so many more fights than the magic hero did, so he has a much higher level, has probably much more artifatcs which raise stats, and may have found some great relics (tomes) which give him the ability to cast all these spells without having wisdom as secondary skill.
Forget about endfights with 100 or more level 7 units. This just doesn't happen in multiplayer games. those games end in first month 80% of the time, and in week 6 95% of the time. With those armies, level 1 and level 2 spells will decide most games. A might hero with tactics will cast mass haste and kill at least 80% of your army in round 1. What will help you now? Chainlightning? Resurrection?, Waterwalk?
Singleplayer and multiplayer are TWO DIFFERENT worlds. I made this experience myself. I play this game for more than 10 years now. But when I entered the multiplayer faction, I recognized what a weak player I was (am ).
Just come online and try. Then post here again..
Dude.. You just scared me off!
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doom3d
Known Hero
Avatar of general Z
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posted March 29, 2007 09:58 PM |
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re:
I started to play with Solmyr. After that I switched to Alamar.
Then to Deemer. Now I play with intelligence spec. heroes.
Just can't have enough mana for everything..
Intelligence is a good skill for magic heroes. It helps a lot on week 2..5. Alagar is also a great starting hero, 'cause on week2-3 I will have enough opponents to kill with expert ice bolt, and I will build MG1 on day1 anyhow.. Generally I finish two level resource poor M maps in 4-8 weeks at expert, and 8-12 at impossible.
Yes, on very small maps might heroes are better. Just because they don't have to refuel mana. Last year I finished a two level S map on day5, started with might hero (Single p.)
I am living in the Singleplayer world, only had ~100 multi games.
And magic rocks here against AI.
(I am the best, I can beat the AI :lol: )
There are some problems with getting good might skills with magic hero, also
earth AND air with might, and I don't really like this random skill advancement. In singleplayer I can hire out a good might hero(skill spec.) in Conflux, but in other cases it doesn't help..
(BTW, it can be fixed in WoG [/end of OFF])
But magic heroes can have wisdom and exp. magics faster (exp. slow, Berserk, curse, exp. bless, prayer..), and in single player adv. TP and DD.
With a magic hero, once I managed to capture 9 towns in a single round.(WoG, Shamanic Running ON, visiting 2 Vortex, 1 Spring, 1 well)
I go to sleep know. Aloha, and exp. bless with You.
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Unknown_Guy
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 12, 2011 09:53 PM |
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Reviving again this topic.
Have been playing HOMM3 for about 10 years - lots of single player and and something like 150 games online and when some one says that magic heroes are almost always weaker than might is just ridiculous. Why? Rules makes them weak - no flying, no town-portal, no Dimension door, no this and no that. These rules make everything imbalanced.
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HOMM3 is not a game - it's obsession
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Casper
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 12, 2011 11:15 PM |
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Reviving again this topic.
Have been playing HOMM3 for about 10 years - lots of single player and and something like 150 games online and when some one says that magic heroes are almost always weaker than might is just ridiculous. Why? Rules makes them weak - no flying, no town-portal, no Dimension door, no this and no that. These rules make everything imbalanced.
Might heroes can also learn Fly, Town Portal, and Dimension Door. As long as they get Wisdom built up to Expert (almost always happens in a month-long or longer game, maybe even three-week game) and have an adequate number of spell points, this particular Magic advantage is severely weakened.
The real reason for these rules is that ONE opponent playing in the game gets a huge advantage if they have Fly, TP, or DD in their Mage Guild and their opponent has none of the above. That's very imbalancing, but it's imbalancing even if both players are Magic, or both players are Might.
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted January 13, 2011 04:52 PM |
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Reviving again this topic.
Have been playing HOMM3 for about 10 years - lots of single player and and something like 150 games online and when some one says that magic heroes are almost always weaker than might is just ridiculous.
The ridiculous thing is that you played 150 online games and still didnt realise the simple fact that might heroes ARE STRONGER than magic heroes.
So, you are either
1. Hugely overestimating the number of your online games.
2. Played only with unexperienced opponents
3. Too short minded and even the defeats cant open your eyes.
Please, take my coment positively, as i am not trying to insult you. But its a PROVEN fact, that might heroes are stronger than magic. Its proven by countless experienced players in milions of games.
You can either take others people wisdom, or ignore it. Its up to you.
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I play Heroes 3 Online at: www.heroes-III.com
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted January 13, 2011 05:09 PM |
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If you are given the time to level them, might strike much harder. But if you play 150 games where the outcome is decided before 4th day -ie open medium map-, you will see the difference between casting 6 times magic arrow or only 2 times with lesser damage effect. Both are useful, it depends of your style and map you are playing.
Single player maps also require different skills pattern, as ballistic, water magic and intelligence.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Unknown_Guy
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 13, 2011 07:24 PM |
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My provoking post got attraction - good.
What really is interesting that what makes hero a might hero and what makes him magic hero. Might hero with expert wisdom and say expert earth magic - is it really a might hero? Best heroes are always something between.
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HOMM3 is not a game - it's obsession
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted January 13, 2011 07:38 PM |
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Unknown_Guy
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 13, 2011 08:00 PM |
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Ok, primary skills - but then I say it depends more on map type. XL and large maps mostly have lots of artifacts so primary skills between might and magic here won't have huge difference. Small maps more likely will favor might hero. So medium maps looks like most interesting for might and magic battle. And here it's not likely might heroes will shine with as good magics as magic heroes. Just my thoughts about the title, won't say they are right but won't agree that might is so superior.
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HOMM3 is not a game - it's obsession
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted January 13, 2011 08:44 PM |
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Classes are not initially correct balanced. A + 15 attack will make much more damage than a +15 spell power for example. If the magic hero was allowed to cast on every unit turn, then things would be different, but as it is, he can cast once, while the might attack 7 times with increased stats. No matter the artefacts, the stats will be accordingly different. So do the maths.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Unknown_Guy
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 13, 2011 10:50 PM |
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So now we're getting back to secondary skills, might hero without expert in one of magic schools(maybe except fire) will be in serious trouble. Might hero still needs some magic to be successful. It's the same way as brutally comparing attack and power.
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HOMM3 is not a game - it's obsession
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted January 14, 2011 12:01 PM |
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where the outcome is decided before 4th day
And if the outcome is decided on day 1 Solmyr is the best!!!
In most online tournaments week 1 meeting means invalid game.And restart. You dont agree with it, we know that. But it is like that.
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Might hero with expert wisdom and say expert earth magic - is it really a might hero? .
Yes, he is. Seems like you are not familiar with the idea of Might and magic heroes.
Its not only the secondary skills developments (the chance to get certain skill), its the primary skill advancement.
Somewhere in this forum there are tables for it. Go and see the difference between Barbarian and Warlock.
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I play Heroes 3 Online at: www.heroes-III.com
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