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| Thread: new upgrade system. |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Magus
Hired Hero
Warper of Time-Space
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posted April 11, 2003 02:30 AM |
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Im pretty sure i saw this somewhere else in the altar, but i don't remember where so ill repeat it.
Instead of a base unit -> unit type -> unit specialty system, it was
Base unit -> choice between two different upgrades
for example:
shade (ghost type)
choice between
wraith (chance to instantly kill a creature to become a wraith, faster) or
wight (Aging, Mana drain, more Hp, def)
the upgrades also shouldn't change the base unit type very often (walker w/choice between archer, caster). Growth rate would be different between base and upgrade, so you couldn't upgrade all of your troops.
Another topic being thrown about here is about damage vs. creature or creature type. a way this could be done is give different types of attacks and creatures have different defenses against them for example: Slashing, Crushing, Piercing, Magic, [not spells, like a wraith or dragon attack] and a multiplier for ranged attacks.
tell me what you think
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So was the land riven by Chaos and Destruction, and so it was cleansed from existence. I did this, the Magus of Ly'kail, Magus of the Sylvan Kingdoms.
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted April 11, 2003 01:53 PM |
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I completely agree on that. I would even love to see the "infinite" system of upgrade as in Disciples 2. For example, why stop on Wraith and Wight? Upgrade them into Lich and Death...etc!
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Magus
Hired Hero
Warper of Time-Space
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posted April 11, 2003 10:22 PM |
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in case this wasn't made clear, the "Shade" base unit is not level one/zero. it is more like H3 just with two different upgrades that actually mean something. Also, unlike H3, using the unupgraded one could actually be smarter. here is an example, using death
Level 1: Skeleton
Level 1a: Skeleton Captain (better at melee)
Level 1b: Skeleton Archer (ranged, obviously)
Level 2: Zombie
Level 2a: Plague zombie (lower HP, disease stuff)
Level 2b: Mummy (really good defense, slow, cursing)
Level 3: Shade
Level 3a: Wight
Level 3b: Wraith
etc.
I never played disciples so i don't want to pass judgement on their upgrade system
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So was the land riven by Chaos and Destruction, and so it was cleansed from existence. I did this, the Magus of Ly'kail, Magus of the Sylvan Kingdoms.
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valkyrica
Supreme Hero
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posted April 11, 2003 11:19 PM |
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magus you wanna make a hard-copy of warlords battlecry with those damages ?
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I'm Guybrush Threepwood, mighty pirate 
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Magus
Hired Hero
Warper of Time-Space
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posted April 12, 2003 12:26 AM |
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What do you mean?
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So was the land riven by Chaos and Destruction, and so it was cleansed from existence. I did this, the Magus of Ly'kail, Magus of the Sylvan Kingdoms.
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted April 13, 2003 10:30 PM |
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Edited By: Vlaad on 13 Apr 2003
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I think he/she meant your ideas were not quite original.
Who cares, though? Few features in any game are truly unique nowadays.
By the way, you've just suggested the Disciples 2 upgrade system... even if you're not aware of it.
For example, let's take Pikemen:
Pikeman > Swordsman > Champion > Paladin > Angel
...OR:
Pikeman > Aprentice > Monk > Bishop > Cardinal > Grand Inquisitor
...or WHATEVER. The system could be virtually infinite. The question is, do the creatures gain experience or you upgrade them for resources?
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Magus
Hired Hero
Warper of Time-Space
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posted April 14, 2003 01:19 AM |
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I understand what your saying, but the skeleton can't upgrade to the zombie, just to its upgrades. The "Levels" are like the previous heroes levels, they don't build off each other
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So was the land riven by Chaos and Destruction, and so it was cleansed from existence. I did this, the Magus of Ly'kail, Magus of the Sylvan Kingdoms.
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted April 14, 2003 10:14 AM |
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True, but you could upgrade them in other ways:
Skeleton > Skeleton Warrior > Skeleton Captain > Skeleton King...etc
OR
Skeleton > Lich > Semilich > Death...etc.
These are not my suggestions, mind you; I'm just trying to explain the upgrade system of two different branches. One could be inclined to might, other to magic. Or whatever...
HOW do you upgrade them? THAT is the question. Building the upgraded dwelling in town and paying in resources wouldn't make sense anymore.
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nasty
Known Hero
castor nebun si orb pe cinste
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posted April 17, 2003 09:58 PM |
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I was thinking about the upgrading system.
this is what i think...there should be tree upgrades....two you could do at the castle and one on the battlefield.
for example:archer upgrades into a crossbowman...and the crossbowman after a few battles upgrades into a sharpshooter.if you have 50 crossbowmen then after every battle a message should apear saying"you have 10 upgradable crossbowmen".Or the vampire should upgrade into a vampire lord and after several battles he upgrades into an elder vampire...this should be great.
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You can trick me with food.Possesions mean nothing to a navajo.
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streetfire
Hired Hero
slang junky
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posted April 20, 2003 06:48 AM |
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magus, i think i understand what ur talking about, a shade could go into a wight or a wraith but nothing else, it would build off into another creature type, like
4.vampire
4a.vampire lord
4b. nostferu
right?
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it depends on whether u really wanna toss a salad
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Magus
Hired Hero
Warper of Time-Space
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posted April 20, 2003 03:52 PM |
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Quote:
magus, i think i understand what ur talking about, a shade could go into a wight or a wraith but nothing else, it would build off into another creature type, like
4.vampire
4a.vampire lord
4b. nostferu
right?
ys, that was the idea. I also have the death town complete to level 7 a&b with this system, if anyones interested.
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So was the land riven by Chaos and Destruction, and so it was cleansed from existence. I did this, the Magus of Ly'kail, Magus of the Sylvan Kingdoms.
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streetfire
Hired Hero
slang junky
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posted April 20, 2003 10:58 PM |
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sure, although i still think your theory will work well, other sources on this community say that there will be 6 levels for each town, with 2 choices, but i think this style of upgrading will add even more strategy
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it depends on whether u really wanna toss a salad
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Gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted April 24, 2003 09:55 AM |
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or
recruit > skeleton > skeleton warrior > ..
?
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what is the safest way to pass your time? heroes community -- your posts won't affect almost anything
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uhh_yawn
Tavern Dweller
I think animé rocks.
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posted April 27, 2003 06:59 AM |
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Can we also have an easier way to upgrade heroes insread of them learning all this useless junk to get a +4 defence against fire?
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"Best not go to
camelot, tis a silly
place...." - Monty Python
and the Holy Grail
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted April 27, 2003 12:39 PM |
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Thorman
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 03, 2003 02:35 PM |
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Not sure if I want to see upgrades change the "nature" of a creature,maybe changing it's "focus".In other words,upgrading it's defense or it's offense or it's speed or increase damage.Could also upgrade dwellings so they offer more creatures,could be possible to upgrade more than once.
Let's take a golem for exemple,I don't want to see a golem riding a horse or fly.But upgrading it to go faster is something I would like,or maybe adding more offense or increase it's "natural" defense even more.An ultimate upgrade for golems could be raising its magic resistance(let's say by 5%).You could upgrade golems 3 times,and doesn't have to be an increase of speed 3 times,could be one offense,one defense and one speed boost,or 3 speed boost,or 2 defense + 1 offense.
This give not only more upgrades,but alot of possibilities.It brings a problem,it would be tough to get two towns with same golem types,so having a possibility to "downgrade" a building (no cost,takes a turn tho) to upgrade it like you want to produce the units you want is a must.
Well,I guess it doesn't mean we can't play with both systems.One thing is sure,more upgrades is a good thing,for me.As long they aren't obvious upgrades like HoMM3 used to be.No one would pick gremlins over master gremlins,especially when shooters were ruling the battlefield.
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whinie_the_b...
Adventuring Hero
grrrrr!
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posted May 09, 2003 08:40 PM |
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the upgrade system is something tricky to work out, but there are already been many suggestions.
bad boy and hydra have some very interesting views. Actually i posted on *a new beginning* but i regret i didn`t read this thread first. I don`t know if the upgrade system should be so complex though, not just because it will requiremore models and animations (which then have to be rendered!) not to mention play testing and balancing.. And probably the unit structure is partly set. The main reason to have a simpler upgrade system is that it shouldn`t compete with the other aspects of the game, like exploring and upgrading your hero.
I wonder if bad boy has played disciples 2, or warlords battlecry, those games have interesting upgrade systems and i don`t think it would be bad to introduce such in homm5, as long as it makes the gameplay better. It just mught be too easy to make the game overly complicated, as it`s not a simple game already. In my post, i suggested a system like of disciples 2, but simpler. Actually i was thinking of 6 levels of creatures (the game will probably come with 6) that can be upgraded once or twice. I also wrote that since they would upgrade based on experience points, there would be no need for an extra building,or extra slot, and pick 1 or 2 special abilities. Now I realize a shortcoming in my suggestion: there WOULD be a need for an extra building otherwise newly recruited creatures would need an extra slot in the army! Either that, or there would be a mix of upgraded and non upgraded creatures in the army. I suggested that each troop could have their own slot. It would need quite a few slots, and less creatures, but it works fine in many games, such as warlords battlecry and of course, comand and conquer
And this way, mixing upgraded and non upgraded creatures would be easier. What do you think of that? I suspect many of you wouldn`t like to wait for the creatures to earn experience, so there might be an upgrade building after all, which leads to a disciples 2 like system.
What about the way units upgrade? And for how long? In my opinion, 1 or 2 upgrades should be enough, a level 1 creature ending up as strong as e level 2. Actually it could become a level 2 creature, stil remaining the same in appearence maybe with a few changes to keep animation simple. It`s not much change from homm3 except that mostly experience triggers the upgrade, while buildings help keep new recruits up to date.
The choice of units so far is fine, and the fact that humans are similar to middle age british soldiers is normal: all those games got inspired by british literature..
I don`t know if there needs to be so much effort put into the upgrade system (and it`s probably too late to change it that dramatically). After all, there should be some distance between heroes and troops, maybe not as overwhelming as it's now. Someone mentioned a paper-scissors-stone system: A superhero could be very dangerous, but a few high level, upgraded creatures should put him in his place, having many more hitpoints. Heroes should still do stuff that creatures don`t and vice versa.
Hero slaying squires anyone?
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Draco
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 20, 2003 04:58 PM |
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Im sorry i only read the first couple posts due to time restraints but if their are going to be multiple upgrades for each unit i would like you to be able to unbuild castles as well. I dont want to play a map where ever castle i take over has different men.. I.e. pikemen in one castle phalanx in the other and whatever other unit in the third, my army wouldnt be able to get strong because my level 1 guys will take up 4 slots.
howeve if i could unbuild a upgrade and get 50% resources back, then rebuild how i like that would be appreciated.
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TheSentinel
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 21, 2003 12:23 PM |
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About two level battlefield
I also just saw this thread, and I just thought about the idea of the two level battlefield (air and land). In order to make the flier units less powerful it may be a restriction that they can only stay in air for a few rounds and then the next move it should be on the groud (to rest). Or something like this ... it can be more elaborate.
Also the Hippograph and other units remind me of Warcraft III. About the upgrade system, transforming it into a completely different one it might not be a very good idea, if you like the disciples or warlords way of upgrading ( I didn't play them so I wouldn't know ) it may be better that one should play that specific game instead of Heroes .
The Sentinel
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Gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted May 22, 2003 11:38 AM |
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what if..
what if we looked at the creature growth in a bit different way:
every next creature we hire costs more gold, and the creatures get cheaper over time (well, didn't try to come up with a suitable formula, but with the idea rather). maybe their base cost would't get cheaper but ratherthe cost would get cheaper = closer to the base cost.
i.e. if you are willing to pay more per creature, you get more creatures.
of course, the present system would be the case of fixed creature cost.
one of the side effects of this system might make peeople think of the "creature dwellings" in a bit different way. the main effect might be another way of decision-making.
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what is the safest way to pass your time? heroes community -- your posts won't affect almost anything
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