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| Thread: Better ENDGAME play (repost) | |
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted March 22, 2001 09:22 PM |
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Better ENDGAME play (repost)
newtowns [guest] from Heroes Community
Better ENDGAME play. Posted 3-8-2001 19:06
As other player have mentioned, I find that endgame play is too easy against a computer player. Here are some ideas I would like to see. Some of these have been express before but I added
something different to the idea.
I would like to see ONLY harder levels give the computer cheats (as in HMM II extra gold & stuff) in endgame not just in the start. I find that even in impossible level if you can survive that
start of the game it becomes easy to defeat the computer i.e. not impossible. Also I think that the impossible start should be with some gold. I think it would be more important to have these
cheats get better as time passes. I think even giving the computer extra creatures. First month extra wood and ore, second month extra gold, third month extra resources, fourth month extra
creatures, fifth month increase gold again and so on. This would help a great deal in endgame play and maybe make the impossible a lot more challenging but still playable in the begining of
the game.
An idea about heroes having some restrictions with artifacts. Artifacts could be made so that they have different effects on various classes. A shield could give a fighting hero a +2 defense
while only giving a magic wielder a +1 defense. Same for magic; A spell power artifact could add +2 to the spell caster but only +1 to a fighting hero. I think that that would work better than
totally restricting artifacts to only one kind of hero.
I don't think that you should be restricted to use any kind of troop in your army or in your castle but I also believe that in troops that conflict (good and evil) should be effected. I think
something like moral effect that happens for different classes of creatures. I think luck would work. Your luck would decrease if you put evil and good creatures in the same army. One thing
that would need to be changed is the ability to have bad luck. With bad luck you have a chance of reduced attack skill.
I want to see some restrictions on the number of creatures one can have in a stack. This would make one use more heroes, reduce the use of super heroes and make better endgame play. This
restriction would have to be done by level of the creature. Level 7 creatures that have upgraded something like 7 in a stack and level one creatures that have not been upgraded maybe 75 in a
stack. This would require quite a bit of reworking of magic. I think that destructive magic of heroes is right now TOO powerful and chain lightning spell on restricted stacks would kill the
game. (I don't want ot get rid of chain lighting but reduce the amount of damage it inflicts) I think magic should be much less destructive and more strategic in nature. All kinds of spells like
quicksand and remove obstacle might be used if offensive spell did not carry such destructive power. Also units would more likely be used as guards in mines, garrisons and maybe creature
generators too because you would need spread armies out more. Also this stack unit limitation should vary with the size of map used (larger map higher stack limit). It could also be a special
hero skill, artifact enhancer, and creature attribute as well.
I don't play with the lover creatures and the computer doesn't do it either. The upgrades to units need to be harder to achieve. I don't think that money and resources are the answer to that. I
think that some quests, experience levels, skills, mage guild level, and artifacts should be employed on various upgrade restriction to the castles. This would make use the not upgraded units
used and make building up armies longer hence better endgame play.
To go along with this upgrade is more special attributes like those of the creatures in the fortress castle only applying to the upgrades to the various creatures. They were a great addition to the
game to try and use them effectively. I would like to see more of this in all of the creatures. Magic resistance for dwarves should be stronger. Good creatures and evil creatures get a bonus
against fighting one other. A bonus for a ranged attack unit could be to give full damage at long distances against flying creatures. A unit that uses a weapons (sword, spear & etc.) could get a
bonus fighting a certain type of creature. Fighter with a sharp weapons do extra damage against unarmed units. Range units could vary in the distance to achieve full damage. Although I think
that the genie is too powerful a spell caster, one can split up genies and 1 genie can a spell. What could change is a 1 genie in a stack can start with a 10% chance of a spell, that way 10 genies
would be necessary to get a 100%. This could be very useful for a number of special attributes that creatures have. A group of unicorns would have a higher chance of blinding an opponent
that a single unicorn attack (not up to 100% though maybe start a 5% and go to 30%). I would like to see these special attributes countered in other creatures. More creatures that have immunity
to the various classes of magic. There are a number a creatures immune to fire magic but not any others that have a special ability like that. An immunity to stoning, paralysis, poison, and
others. Say crusaders are immune to stoning because the know how to attack using a shield and sword. That will make attacking with these creatures and countering the attacks great play.
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted March 22, 2001 09:23 PM |
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Pluvious from Heroes Community
Against Lessening of Power... Posted 3-8-2001 20:57
I'm against most of what you said. I definately don't like limits to stacks of creatures. Anytime there is a limit to something like this it puts too much emphasis on some other part of the game, like the hero's abilities or troop types. That isn't what you want. If this is a problem just make the map the right way and large stacks won't be a problem.
And definately all artifacts should be the same for all types of heroes. I don't see the logic otherwise.
I'm for experience or quests as upgrades to troops though. Like someone else has said a creature should upgrade with experience, not building. Find other interesting building methods, but have creatures gain a series of levels, say 1-20. Upon reaching level 10 or so they could upgrade to higher qualit creature, like an angel to archangel.
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted March 22, 2001 09:26 PM |
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kuraizen [guest] from Heroes Community
i agree about the low level troops, Posted 3-9-2001 04:14
i think that upgrading troops should be a special thing, not just something you get everytime you play, it should be for instance, you get a hero who has gained 5 levels  yay! now you earned an upgrade, or like the other guy said, have the creatures evolve as part of gameplay, not part of castle creation, have the creatures gain exp depending on the actual creature they fought, so a vampire troop would only become a vampire lord troop after gaining personaly 1000 exp, not the army, but the actual troop,
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Drizzt from Heroes Community
Artifact's shall have the effect on every body Posted 3-9-2001 12:48
i dont like the thing whit the artifact's i mean then it woulden be an artifac just another vepon or shield warrior can use vepons better than mages thats clear!! but artifact should have the samme effect on all think about it its an artifac not a vepon.
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted March 22, 2001 09:26 PM |
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Valera from Heroes Community
Feedback to the ideas (fame) Posted 3-9-2001 20:59
I am definitely against the stack limits. However this idea could work differently like in King's Bounty. Hero has a "fame" statistic that goes somewhat along with experience. Fame means that hero can only have that many troops in each stack (depending on how good troops are) and if he has more, they will revolt and attack their own troops because the hero can't control them anymore. This of course can only happen to creatures such as ghosts. So if a hero has 120 fame, he can lead 24 troglodytes (each requiring 5 fame) and 10 evil eyes (each requiring 12 fame). This stat will really make the game interesting since heroes will have to train before they can lead a good army. Otherways it is unclear how 20 black dragons can obey a newbie hero.
I say have both structure and experience upgrades, but experience upgrades are the ones beyond structure upgrades, they can only be obtained in battles.
Angels and devils who hate each other surely should not be able to fight side by side. Or at least a decrease in fighting abbilities for a mixed army of good and evil cause they'd rather fight each other than their enemy. Maybe have a chance for unit to revolt and start attacking the units that it does not like on the battlefield.
What do you think about fame?
Valeriy.
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You can wait for others to do it, but if they don't know how, you'll wait forever.
Be an example of what you want to see on HC and in the world.
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted March 22, 2001 09:27 PM |
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Pluvious from Heroes Community
fame & morale Posted 3-9-2001 22:37
The fame concept sounds solid. But be careful. What if you just want one hero to transport those 10 black dragons to another? How do you do that?
And I like the way morale is handled in the game. I don't like limiting the creatures that can be in an army. There may very well be a reason why devils and angels fight alongside. Maybe they fight under a legendary hero or some other reason. But if angels and devils (or other creatures) fight under the same hero they should have a large morale penalty. No units dispanding (I hate this in other games) or fighting each other, but refusing to fight or freezing up is satisfactory. This combined with improvements to artifacts and other things will be enough of a change in this area.
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted March 22, 2001 09:27 PM |
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newtowns [guest] from Heroes Community
response Posted 3-12-2001 18:14
I think that maybe stack limits is too extreme. That would take some of the fun out of building huge armies. would take I do love playing the game and that just might make to many changes. I have played all of the HMM games and HMM II had better endgame play in the expert and impossible levels because of the computer cheating. I think that they took that out because they worked to improve the AI (which they did) and thought that it might become too hard. What I would like to see come back ONLY in the hard levels.
As for the artifacts I think that it is sill a good Idea for some of the artifacts not for all of them. ONLY some of the artifacts that are created could have different effects on different types of heros.
As for the idea of restricting upgrades I think that there should be five to seven different ways to upgrade creatures not just one. If you had to go on seven different quests to upgrade your creatures that wouldn't be so great.
Level one creatures can just be the same as before.
Level two creatures can be upgraded after the first month has passed.
Level three creatures can be upgraded by a hero with a 5+ base skill (no factoring in artifacts) in one of the four (attack, defence, power & knowledge) skills.
Level four creatures can be upgraded after a hero with a certain expert level skill comes to the castle.
Level five creatures can be upgraded by a level nine+ hero coming to the castle.
Level six creatures upgrades is an artifact quest with a map that you get at each castle
Level seven creatures upgrades should be a quest that you get at each castle to defeat a group of high level creatures.
These methods can vary with the type of castle creature you are trying to upgrade. For example level three creature at a dungeon castle would need a 5+ power skill while a barbarian castle would need a +5 attack skill. As stated earlier the upgraded creatures would have the special skill and make getting the upgrades important but also let the lower units be more a part of the game otherwise why bother even having them.
Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to Library Of Enlightenment, to discuss Heroes 4, please go to War Room Of Axeoth.
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